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Originally Posted by Tony_Soprano
Neither.

Just get a 375 H&H, which is all you need for buffalo.

The 416s are not really "all around/general use" calibers. Kind of a waste of space and weight for a second rifle to bring for only one animal. They are overkill for plains game and on the lightish side for elephant. You really don't need anything bigger than a 3-7-5 for buffalo anyway.

The 375 H&H will be much more accurate, reach out further, and in combination, more accurate at longer range. Even with a rest and in a blind, your PH won't be saying "take the Rigby" to snipe that croc or hippo. The 375 H&H will also handle a bit better both on sticks and freehand. Much easier to get a second bullet downrange with a 375 H&H. The "field' recovery time alone on a 3-7-5 outweighs any theoretical "internet" more dead 416 argument.

Finally, the 375 H&H has a very light recoil due to its taper. I am not recoil sensitive at all. To me felt recoil is not much more than a 300 Win. You know you've shot a 416 Rigby. Again improves both accuracy and quick follow ups.

Oh and good luck trying to find ammo over there. (Don't tell anyone you've got a 375 H&H as everyone will be hitting you up to buy your ammo.)

Here's my Holehan 416 Rigby on top and my Pre War Mod 70. The Rigby has never been to Africa and I'll never (need to) take it. Very pretty and look good on paper, but in retrospect for me a huge waste of money.




Good post.

My best fried for many years before he died an early & untimely death from cancer, was a well renowned PH in Zambia & Tanzania & he would have been happy to let me use a 338 if it had been legal.

The 375 with good bullets & a GOOD SHOOTER is more than adequate & most guys will, w/o a doubt, be a better shooter with the 375 than the 416.

MM

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by DingoDuk
Dirt farmer sorry to hear about your friends wife.

Yeah, that was a bummer. The guy is a successful businessman and a retired pastor. He and his pastor son preached her funeral.

Now, you gotta be plugged in pretty tight with the Higher Power to successfully pull something like that off and do it well.

I wasn't able to go, but my Bud said it was one of the finest funerals he'd heard. It was recounted how she lived, the people she influenced during her lifetime. Reportedly her sphere of influence and her ministry were quite extensive and note worthy. Her reward is on the other side, for sure. There's gotta be Peace in that.

DF

Well after all that, the hunt was postponed until August.

Bud, at his camp, was standing on his side by side, just having cut a limb. His brother-in-law started the vehicle, causing him to fall. He landed on a just cut limb, full weight on his hip. Went to Urgent Care, X-Rays showed non displaced Fx hip. Sent to hosp, had surg last Sunday, nail, plate and one screw. Is at home, non wt. bearing, using walker and wheel chair for 6 wks.

So, hunt again postponed. Bummer.

Well, at least his ordinance is all set up, ready to go.

DF

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I bought a Remington 700 Custom KS in 416 rem for $700. Great rifle and price. The only thing was that it had to much recoil for me.

I would get a 375 HH to bring to Africa. With controlled expansion bullets it would be effective against Buffalo.



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[quote=Tony_Soprano]Neither.

Just get a 375 H&H, which is all you need for buffalo.

The 416s are not really "all around/general use" calibers. Kind of a waste of space and weight for a second rifle to bring for only one animal. They are overkill for plains game and on the lightish side for elephant. You really don't need anything bigger than a 3-7-5 for buffalo anyway.

The 375 H&H will be much more accurate, reach out further, and in combination, more accurate at longer range. Even with a rest and in a blind, your PH won't be saying "take the Rigby" to snipe that croc or hippo. The 375 H&H will also handle a bit better both on sticks and freehand. Much easier to get a second bullet downrange with a 375 H&H. The "field' recovery time alone on a 3-7-5 outweighs any theoretical "internet" more dead 416 argument.

Finally, the 375 H&H has a very light recoil due to its taper. I am not recoil sensitive at all. To me felt recoil is not much more than a 300 Win. You know you've shot a 416 Rigby. Again improves both accuracy and quick follow ups.

Oh and good luck trying to find ammo over there. (Don't tell anyone you've got a 375 H&H as everyone will be hitting you up to buy your ammo.)

Here's my Holehan 416 Rigby on top and my Pre War Mod 70. The Rigby has never been to Africa and I'll never (need to) take it. Very pretty and look good on paper, but in retrospect for me a huge waste of money.


I’m going to agree, and disagree, with Tony Soprano on the .375 vs .416 issue. When I was taking my son on his 1st buffalo hunt, he wanted a big bore. I bought him a Model 70 in .375 H&H, telling him “It’s all the rifle you’ll ever need for Africa”. And it is, given that he’s not likely to hunt Africa many times and will always be backed up by a bigger gun. It has become his favorite rifle.

I, on the other hand, felt the need for a bit more gun for my own hunts, in part because I’ve nearly been flattened by a bull elephant and a buffalo cow. I’ve carried a .458 Winchester and a lovely old Rigby box lock I had in .470 NE (eventually sold that double, but wish I hadn’t). I wanted something a bit lighter but still with more stopping power than a .375. So, I had a .416 Hoffman built on a pre-64 action. I’m shooting a 400 grain bullet at 2,360; which yields right at 5,000 ft-lbs of energy and penetrates deeply. I believe it’s a nice compromise between a .375 and the bigger 45 & up caliber cartridges.

The .416 can reach out a fair way; evidenced by a Gemsbok I shot at around 300 yards in the Kalahari. Up close, I’ve dumped an old buffalo bull pretty much in his tracks at 20 yards with it. My rifle weighs 9 1/2 lbs, so it’s easier to carry than a larger, heavier Big-bore. With a Brown Precision stock and Pachmayr decelerator pad, recoil isn’t a concern unless I crank loads up over 2,500 FPS. I got over the need for more speed when I had rotator cuff surgery a few years ago. 2,360 will kill just fine. I get sub 1” groups with several different 400 grain Bullets, so accuracy is plenty good.

I don’t think a .416, regardless of variant, is ‘the best’ for any specific use in Africa, but it’s a damn good compromise for almost everything. You can’t say that about nearly any other caliber, except possibly the .375.

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GO with the Rigby, Lot Lower Pressure, More Accurate !

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Originally Posted by dirtyharry


GO with the Rigby, Lot Lower Pressure, More Accurate !

Good one and a classic.

They tend to be heavier than .416 Rem versions, which seem to be gaining popularity in Africa.

I’m in EdM’s camp. .416 Rem with 350 TSX’s. And I’m also a .375 H&H fan.

.416 Rigby bud just sent me a photo of him with a dead ‘yote, Rigby in hand. Probably overpenetrated.
I think it was a 400 TSX, same bullet he used in Zim to bag a 41” buff. Yote was very dead, no mention of over kill.

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I love my rigby. DF I’m really loving the 400 Aframe at 2450 with 102 grains of h4831.

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Originally Posted by DingoDuk
I love my rigby. DF I’m really loving the 400 Aframe at 2450 with 102 grains of h4831.

Rigby bud uses 100 gr H-4831 with his 400 TSX’s. Speeds a bit north of 2,400 fps.

I’m sure those A-Frames will whack about anything.

Interesting discussion, SAF vs NPT. Both seem to work.

DF

Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 07/18/21.
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Originally Posted by dirtyharry


GO with the Rigby, Lot Lower Pressure, More Accurate !


Yeah, I’m sure the Rigby is more accurate than my Hoffman, since I only get 0.80” groups with 370 grain Raptors. I’m sure a Rigby chambered rifle would do better.

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Originally Posted by CAelknuts
Originally Posted by dirtyharry


GO with the Rigby, Lot Lower Pressure, More Accurate !


Yeah, I’m sure the Rigby is more accurate than my Hoffman, since I only get 0.80” groups with 370 grain Raptors. I’m sure a Rigby chambered rifle would do better.


LOL. So heart felt. You matter. Crying laughing.

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I’m sure that a properly hit animal could not walk either one off.
I have Aframes because they were available when I was looking, had it been noslers in stock I would have went with them. That said my 375 H&H loves the Aframes at 2620. Where the nosler love is at 2475. Nodes matter.
And 145 fps = a bunch of ko.

I’m still very tempted to get a mauserfield and build a big bore.
The 400h&h has my attention. Probably will pass before I get the action but I’m really thinking something different would be fun.

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DD, have the .400 H&H built!

That would be a great combo, the .400 H&H along with the .375 H&H.


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Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard

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Originally Posted by elkhunternm
DD, have the .400 H&H built!

That would be a great combo, the .400 H&H along with the .375 H&H.

Yep, a wabbit killing combo, although a bit light up against the .460.

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If I wanted the most insurance, I'd shoot a 416 Wby with 450gr bullets. There is no such thing as too much gun for Cape Buffalo.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
DD, have the .400 H&H built!

That would be a great combo, the .400 H&H along with the .375 H&H.

Yep, a wabbit killing combo, although a bit light up against the .460.

DF


LOL, the 400 H&H is a hell of a cartridge men, none smoother feeding i've ever felt, i had one built on a mag action M-70 classic action last year, loaded up 400gr A-frames, Bonded Kodiaks and BBW #13 solids, all to an easy 2400 fps with Varget powder in Quality Cartridge brass, took that rifle to Tanzania for an anniversary safari with Wife, with it i shot:

Gold medal Waterbuck at 218 yards off sticks
Warthog at 168 yards off sticks
Liechtenstein Hartebeest at 236 yards, prone off elbows, herd bull bedded, he never got up.
Monster Zebra Stallion, 277 yards, prone off elbows.
Leopard, 70 yards from blind, dead before he left the limb.

Also did some 40 cal solid testing on the Cape Buffalo and Hippo i took with a 577 double, there isn't an animal walking i wouldn't hunt with that 400 H&H, you can also forget about getting a 400gr BBW #13 solid at 2400 fps back, bolting one in the chamber is the last time you'll see it, wont go into details here, but the penetration has to be seen to be believed.


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by elkhunternm
DD, have the .400 H&H built!

That would be a great combo, the .400 H&H along with the .375 H&H.

Yep, a wabbit killing combo, although a bit light up against the .460.

DF


LOL, the 400 H&H is a hell of a cartridge men, none smoother feeding i've ever felt, i had one built on a mag action M-70 classic action last year, loaded up 400gr A-frames, Bonded Kodiaks and BBW #13 solids, all to an easy 2400 fps with Varget powder in Quality Cartridge brass, took that rifle to Tanzania for an anniversary safari with Wife, with it i shot:

Gold medal Waterbuck at 218 yards off sticks

Warthog at 168 yards off sticks
Liechtenstein Hartebeest at 236 yards, prone off elbows, herd bull bedded, he never got up.
Monster Zebra Stallion, 277 yards, prone off elbows.
Leopard, 70 yards from blind, dead before he left the limb.

Also did some 40 cal solid testing on the Cape Buffalo and Hippo i took with a 577 double, there isn't an animal walking i wouldn't hunt with that 400 H&H, you can also forget about getting a 400gr BBW #13 solid at 2400 fps back, bolting one in the chamber is the last time you'll see it, wont go into details here, but the penetration has to be seen to be believed.


I’m naive about the 400 H&H; what is the actual bullet diameter? Is it .400 or some variation above .400? I presume it has a taper like the .375 H&H, is that correct?

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CEN, yes, it's a long tapered case, have heard some fireform 375 H&H brass for the 400, Bonded Kodiaks, A-frames and solids are 410/411 inch, it's a great cartridge for something a little different, the stalking rifle i had built up weighs in at around 8.5 lbs with scope in QD rings, very handy, easy carrying quick pointing hunting rifle for all game worldwide.


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That rifle is a peach too. If I had more of some use I’d be all over one just for the cool factor.


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I bought a 400 h&h recently, built on a sako action . I have not found much available for bullets. I have a couple boxes of 300 gr 405 bullets to try .. How much varget does it take to get the 400 gr up to 2400 ?

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Originally Posted by Winchrman
I bought a 400 h&h recently, built on a sako action . I have not found much available for bullets. I have a couple boxes of 300 gr 405 bullets to try .. How much varget does it take to get the 400 gr up to 2400 ?


I use 76gr Varget under the 400gr A-frames, Kodiak Bonded Cores and BBW #13 solids, 75gr Varget goes under the 400gr Woodleigh solids, they build a bit more pressure than the others in my rifle.

Thanks beretzs! smile


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