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Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15787317 02/14/21
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Depends, how good a turkey hunter / caller are you? Get them inside of 30 yards and anything works. I've killed more with a 20 ga. 870 and 2/3 inch one ounce loads of 7 1/2 than anything. These days all I use is a 20 gauge flintlock with cylinder bore.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795

"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
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Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15809023 02/19/21
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I have killed a lot of birds with a 12 ga, but now use a 20 and have killed just about as many. The only reason I have not killed as many with a 20 is I have not hunted with it as long. If you don't take crazy shots and let the bird work in, either will do a fine job.


I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects

I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Jstocks] #15826226 02/23/21
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Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15835294 02/25/21
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20

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What fresh Hell is this?
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: CRS] #15844172 02/27/21
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Originally Posted by CRS
I was going to use a 20 last year on turkeys but ended up filling all my tags with traditional archery equipment.

So this year I am going to use the 20, and with TSS loads I will have no issues out to 40 yards. If I cannot call one to 40 yards, I do not deserve to fill my tag.

The main reason I am going to a 20 is ease of carry. I have used 3.5's in my Browning Cynergy and Benelli SBE, but they are heavier to carry. I have not needed the 70 plus yard range of the 3.5's for many years.



Sorry, but I don't agree that a 3.5", 12 gauge is a "70 plus" yard range shell to kill a turkey consistantly. A 10 gauge, 3.5" might be a 70 yard range shell, (consistantly) but not a 12 gauge. NO WAY !!!!

IC-A

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15844508 02/27/21
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If I neededto kill turkeys at 70 yards, I’d just carry a small rifle of some sort. That’s not the game I want to play, so it’s a shotgun, or maybe a crossbow. 40 or 50 yards of reach is plenty.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Japlvr] #15845976 02/28/21
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Originally Posted by Japlvr



Sorry, but I don't agree that a 3.5", 12 gauge is a "70 plus" yard range shell to kill a turkey consistantly. A 10 gauge, 3.5" might be a 70 yard range shell, (consistantly) but not a 12 gauge. NO WAY !!!!


These days a properly set up 20ga with 2-3/4” TSS load will kill at 70yds with 100% consistency. Not advocating that shot, just stating the fact that it’s possible. It’s pretty amazing stuff. I haven’t carried a 12 in a really long time. I will carry some 12s with light loads this year just for the heck of it, but 20s will be used mostly.

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15846112 02/28/21
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The TSS has made the 60+ yard turkey killing pattern perfectly possible.


Winchester Longbeards in a proper choked 3" 12 gauge will give my 10 gauge a run for it's money and in the right gun will outshoot my 10, easily.

I don't understand the draw to longer range turkey hunting, takes most if not all of the fun out of it.

The older I get and the more turkeys I kill the less "long range" turkey shooting I do. Give me a bird at 20-30 yards and I am content.

If you can't kill a turkey at 40 yards with a dose of #4s, 5s or 6s with a regular full choke something is bad wrong. Even a 20 gauge with a 3" load of copper plated #6s is 40 yard gun.

Hunt the timber I hunt and you can't even see a 40 yard bird.


The horned toad says we should go to Mexico.
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Reloader7RM] #15846272 02/28/21
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Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Originally Posted by Japlvr



Sorry, but I don't agree that a 3.5", 12 gauge is a "70 plus" yard range shell to kill a turkey consistantly. A 10 gauge, 3.5" might be a 70 yard range shell, (consistantly) but not a 12 gauge. NO WAY !!!!


These days a properly set up 20ga with 2-3/4” TSS load will kill at 70yds with 100% consistency. Not advocating that shot, just stating the fact that it’s possible. It’s pretty amazing stuff. I haven’t carried a 12 in a really long time. I will carry some 12s with light loads this year just for the heck of it, but 20s will be used mostly.



I do understand that the TSS pattern is still tight @ 70 yards, but what about ft lbs of energy ? Does the 20 gauge TSS load have enough energy to penetrate a gobbler for a lethal kill ?

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15846325 02/28/21
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Whether is comes from a 10, 12, 20 or 410 gauge a pellet has the same amount of energy if started at the same velocity.


Pellets from a load of 9 TSS at 1200fps have the same penetration no matter the gauge. Bigger payloads have more pellets and a denser pattern that holds longer.


When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
IC-B

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Bearcat74] #15848111 02/28/21
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Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Whether is comes from a 10, 12, 20 or 410 gauge a pellet has the same amount of energy if started at the same velocity.


Pellets from a load of 9 TSS at 1200fps have the same penetration no matter the gauge. Bigger payloads have more pellets and a denser pattern that holds longer.


OK, I stand corrected.

Now, is it fair to say that a 12 gauge shooting regular lead turkey loads, (not TSS) won't be effective at 70 yards consistantly ? Meaning, shooting lead turkey loads, the effective killing range will be mainly 40 yards & closer.

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Japlvr] #15848165 02/28/21
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Originally Posted by Japlvr
Originally Posted by Bearcat74
Whether is comes from a 10, 12, 20 or 410 gauge a pellet has the same amount of energy if started at the same velocity.


Pellets from a load of 9 TSS at 1200fps have the same penetration no matter the gauge. Bigger payloads have more pellets and a denser pattern that holds longer.


OK, I stand corrected.

Now, is it fair to say that a 12 gauge shooting regular lead turkey loads, (not TSS) won't be effective at 70 yards consistantly ? Meaning, shooting lead turkey loads, the effective killing range will be mainly 40 yards & closer.



A lead #6 doesn’t know what gauge it was fired from. Same theory applies to lead, hevi, tss. A load of lead 6’s carries the same per pellet energy no matter the gauge but more pellets create a denser pattern which holds longer which makes it more effective.


A #4 lead may have the energy to kill a bird at 70yds from a 10, 12, 20 or 410. The chances of getting a lead 4 where it needs to go at that range from any gauge is pretty much luck.


50yds is my limit no matter what and I’d rather have them at 25yds. Typically you run out of pattern density before you run out of pellet energy, especially with lead.


When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15848910 02/28/21
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I patterned my 12 and my sons 20 today. The 20 patterned almost as well with significantly less recoil...

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: ShortMagFan] #15849036 02/28/21
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So what load were you using in both rounds?

In general a 12 will pattern a little better than a 20 with the same loads, which is a general rule with ANY kind of shot--though the difference is less with harder shot.

My wife and I have killed a pile of turkeys with both gauges using 1-1/4 ounces of #6 and #5 shot (both lead and Bismuth) out to 40+ yards with no problems.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15849524 03/01/21
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I set up my Winchester sx3 20ga 26inch barrel with a carlson choke this past spring and shot Apex Ninja TSS at 20yds,30,40, and 50 yds.

I have confidence in this setup and think it would be effective past 50 yds but I don't like to shoot that far, I prefer 30-35 yds.

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Last edited by Goats260; 03/01/21.
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15849612 03/01/21
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I switched from the 12 to 20 decades ago. I found that a load of copper plated buffered 6 shot from a 20 gauge killed toms just as dead as a 12 when I held to a 40 yard shot. The lighter weight and handiness of the smaller frame of the 20 was the selling point for me. I will admit that for the last 15 years I have used a Model 12 Winchester in 16 gauge more often that the 20.

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Reloader7RM] #15849782 03/01/21
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Originally Posted by Reloader7RM

These days a properly set up 20ga with 2-3/4” TSS load will kill at 70yds with 100% consistency.




You've been reading too many turkey ammo ads.


Wollen nicht krank dein feind. Planen es.
Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Yoder409] #15849977 03/01/21
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Originally Posted by Yoder409
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM

These days a properly set up 20ga with 2-3/4” TSS load will kill at 70yds with 100% consistency.




You've been reading too many turkey ammo ads.




No, he's very much correct. I've been loading TSS for a decade. That's also the case with Reloader7RM.

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: Japlvr] #15850049 03/01/21
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Originally Posted by Japlvr
Originally Posted by Reloader7RM
Originally Posted by Japlvr



Sorry, but I don't agree that a 3.5", 12 gauge is a "70 plus" yard range shell to kill a turkey consistantly. A 10 gauge, 3.5" might be a 70 yard range shell, (consistantly) but not a 12 gauge. NO WAY !!!!


These days a properly set up 20ga with 2-3/4” TSS load will kill at 70yds with 100% consistency. Not advocating that shot, just stating the fact that it’s possible. It’s pretty amazing stuff. I haven’t carried a 12 in a really long time. I will carry some 12s with light loads this year just for the heck of it, but 20s will be used mostly.



I do understand that the TSS pattern is still tight @ 70 yards, but what about ft lbs of energy ? Does the 20 gauge TSS load have enough energy to penetrate a gobbler for a lethal kill ?


Yes, TSS #9s launched at 1100fps will give adequate penetration to a bit over 70yd.

Re: 12 or 20? [Re: humdinger] #15855356 03/02/21
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I’ve used a 20ga before it was cool. I took a shot at what I thought was 40’ish yards. I picked up the bird and poked back to the blind. I ranged it, 49 yards. Dead bird. Shot them from 7 to 49 yards with it. I love it.


Just one more draw and we should see the trucks.
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