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Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15829998 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by oldtimer303

Was it justified? Should the shooter be publicly identified? Yes- No


If justified why?





I don’t know. There are different rules for deadly force in certain applications and I have not read that they are different under those circumstances.

I can tell you that as the 4th Amendment applies to most any other LE or security application it was 100% unjustified.

No I don’t think the shooter should be identified.


Originally Posted by CowboyTim
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Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: conrad101st] #15830020 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by conrad101st
Originally Posted by wldthg
Would anyone on here be arrested if they shot and killed an unarmed person coming through a broken window into their house ?


No they wouldn’t be arrested at all in our state. Perfectly legal to kill them. Does not matter if they are armed or not. You bust a window in a residence and try to climb through it in Oklahoma and you get what’s coming even if you are a white 14 year old choirboy. You are assumed to be there to cause bodily harm.



Govt buildings don't fall under the definition of "residence" - as they are owned by the public.
Apples and oranges.


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Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830046 02/24/21
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Fully justified.

When domestic terrorists have breached the capitol and are within feet of elected lawmakers, deadly force is justified and PERFECTLY OK.

Had the traitors that day been Blacks or Muslims you would by enraged if the Police hadn't opened up fire at ONCE they broke the barricades.



Meanwhile... Trump watched it on TV for 2 hours, refusing to send help while the US Government was in danger.


The US in the last 40 years:

Socialism for big corporations and military industrial complex

&

Rugged individualism for the individual.
Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830091 02/24/21
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If Ashi had been black, the guard would have been crucified.

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830131 02/24/21
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1. No Unnecessary but she did cross a bright line. But John Sulivan who was filming did not warn her of a drawn firearm until the last second as she broke the plane of the broken interior door light she was climbing through.

2. Yes.that is the law and is required within 48 hours I believe.

However yesterday the Sargent at Arms denied that he had spoken to the (now fired by Pelosi)Chief of the Capitol Police several times over the period from January 4-6. At those times the now former Chief of the Capitol Police repeatedly requested National Guard reinforcements

https://beckernews.com/2-ex-capitol...y-were-warned-about-capitol-riots-37047/

Last edited by OldmanoftheSea; 02/24/21.

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Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: Northman] #15830139 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by Northman
Fully justified.
When domestic terrorists have breached the capitol and are within feet of elected lawmakers, deadly force is justified and PERFECTLY OK.
Had the traitors that day been Blacks or Muslims you would by enraged if the Police hadn't opened up fire at ONCE they broke the barricades.
Meanwhile... Trump watched it on TV for 2 hours, refusing to send help while the US Government was in danger.


Hahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahahaahahaahahaaha!

Fuc-king Moron.

Totally brain-washed and completely devoid of truth.


Communist Goals

26. Present homosexuality and degeneracy as normal.
27. Discredit the Bible.
28. Eliminate prayer in the schools.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1561529/posts
Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830193 02/24/21
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No.......not from what I had seen in video. She didn't pose an imminent danger or threat, was unarmed, female, officers in stairwell. Nope not justified unless other facts come to light. The shooter did not give verbal commands, did not attempt to subdue her or block her, opted to shoot her instead. If the dignitary had been in hallway, or she attacked the executive protection team that would be different. The dignitary was behind a solid core door.....if there was even one.

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: conrad101st] #15830227 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by conrad101st
Originally Posted by wldthg
Would anyone on here be arrested if they shot and killed an unarmed person coming through a broken window into their house ?


No they wouldn’t be arrested at all in our state. Perfectly legal to kill them. Does not matter if they are armed or not. You bust a window in a residence and try to climb through it in Oklahoma and you get what’s coming even if you are a white 14 year old choirboy. You are assumed to be there to cause bodily harm.




This isn't exactly a resident, it is a place of business. So if a BLM rioter enters a store through a broken window or door, they should be shot also and it would be justified?


futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: conrad101st] #15830303 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by conrad101st
Originally Posted by wldthg
Would anyone on here be arrested if they shot and killed an unarmed person coming through a broken window into their house ?


No they wouldn’t be arrested at all in our state. Perfectly legal to kill them. Does not matter if they are armed or not. You bust a window in a residence and try to climb through it in Oklahoma and you get what’s coming even if you are a white 14 year old choirboy. You are assumed to be there to cause bodily harm.




When you are asked "How stupid can you be?"

It really isn't a challenge.........

Lol, what a dumbfuqk.


Paul

"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.

"Because I'm President and they're not".... DJT

Joe and the Ho 2020!

molɔ̀ːn labé skýla

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: Coyotejunki] #15830393 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by Coyotejunki
Originally Posted by conrad101st
Originally Posted by wldthg
Would anyone on here be arrested if they shot and killed an unarmed person coming through a broken window into their house ?


No they wouldn’t be arrested at all in our state. Perfectly legal to kill them. Does not matter if they are armed or not. You bust a window in a residence and try to climb through it in Oklahoma and you get what’s coming even if you are a white 14 year old choirboy. You are assumed to be there to cause bodily harm.




This isn't exactly a resident, it is a place of business. So if a BLM rioter enters a store through a broken window or door, they should be shot also and it would be justified?


He specifically asked about entering a house.

However since you ask about a dwelling (any building) or business, here is the Oklahoma statute. Simply apply the facts to the statute’s text without infusion of morals, ethics, religion or political implications. It’s pretty lenient to green light a justified shooting.

But the DC obviously has different statutes. Anyway:


Title 21. Penal Code

§ 21-1289.25 PHYSICAL OR DEADLY FORCE AGAINST INTRUDER

A. The Legislature hereby recognizes that the citizens of the State of Oklahoma have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes or places of business.

B. A person or an owner, manager or employee of a business is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

1. The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle, or a place of business, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against the will of that person from the dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle, or place of business; and

2. The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

C. The presumption set forth in subsection B of this section does not apply if:

1. The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not a protective order from domestic violence in effect or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;

2. The person or persons sought to be removed are children or grandchildren, or are otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or

3. The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle, or place of business to further an unlawful activity.

D. A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

E. A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter the dwelling, residence, occupied vehicle of another person, or a place of business is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

F. A person who uses defensive force, as permitted pursuant to the provisions of subsections B and D of this section, is justified in using such defensive force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such defensive force. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes charging or prosecuting the defendant.

G. A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of defensive force, but the law enforcement agency may not arrest the person for using defensive force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the defensive force that was used was unlawful.

H. The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection F of this section.

I. The provisions of this section and the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not be construed to require any person using a weapon pursuant to the provisions of this section to be licensed in any manner.

J. A person pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony shall not be deemed guilty of committing a criminal act.

K. As used in this section:

1. “Defensive force” includes, but shall not be limited to, pointing a weapon at a perpetrator in self-defense or in order to thwart, stop or deter a forcible felony or attempted forcible felony;

2. “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people;

3. “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest; and

4. “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.


Conrad101st
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Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830483 02/24/21
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The Capitol Police found the shooting of Ashli Babbitt to be justified. They gave no explanation why they came to this conclusion. They have not released the name of the officer who shot her and it seems doubtful that this person's name will be released.

Personally, I thought the shooting looked very questionable based on the videos. Ashli Babbitt was unarmed and was not doing anything threatening. She was directly in front of a broken window but had not gone through it. If we use this as a standard for justifiable police shootings, then there are many, many people who could have been justifiably shot during the summer riots.

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830492 02/24/21
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If the same situation happened at the Federal Courthouse in Portland and the officer was a white male and the person shot was an unarmed black female, then the situation would be quite different. First of all, there would be terrorists, real terrorists, burning, stealing and murdering throughout the country much like the summer.

People need to be educated

BLM/Antifa is now the armed militant wing of the Democratic Party. They will destroy and murder on order.

The reason for all the “white supremacy / white terrorists ” talk you hear in the big media and Hollywood, is to thwart any efforts at creating something to counter the BLM/Antifa threat. Remember, BLM was given north of a billion dollars over the summer. They are well funded.

This is all designed and implemented at cocktail parties of the very powerful. You don’t see this, you are really missing the boat.


"Fortune always favors the brave, and never helps a man who does not help himself." -P.T. Barnum

Who is John Galt?

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830567 02/24/21
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Talk about double standards.All last summer and fall Antifa and BLM rioted,burned,killed and did this on Federal property.Cops and US Marshals were told to stand down.The National Guard was not used to quell these riots and no one was punished for them.January 6TH Cops are video taped leading protestors into the Capitol building and a woman is shot in the head & killed for trespassing.You can`t tell me this is justified when worse things happened all summer with no type of retribution.Those who were arrested in the summer had their bail paid by US Congress critters,but none were offed on purpose.At the most Ashi made a mistake that she got executed for.This is the same way The KGB executed those that opposed them in any way.A bullet to the head.You can`t tell me that the Cops were not ordered to make an example of somebody,anybody.If we allow this to happen with no consequences,we are done.This whole January 6th deal was a setup by Pelosi,Schumer and their minions.I hope all the gleeful trolls here, get theirs the same way.

Last edited by Huntz; 02/24/21.

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Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: Goosey] #15830937 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by Goosey
Yes, definitely justified! If you don't want to be shot, don't be part of a massive mob rampaging through the capitol, breaking glass, busting through doors and trying to enter the secure area behind the house Chamber itself as representatives are being evacuated!

"Waaa! They should have pepper sprayed her! They should have used a taser!" as hundreds of rioters are swarming the building. The right wing became such humanitarians all of a sudden! Gimme a break!

POP!

And I notice suddenly no one else attempted to climb through after that. Seemed pretty effective.

No reason to identify the officer and plenty not to!



If that is how you feel I think your comment is good enough for me to take a shot at you. Obviously you are of low moral character and a leftist POS. The cops were literally right behind her and she was about to be arrested you idiot.

Last edited by rickt300; 02/24/21.
Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: oldtimer303] #15830946 02/24/21
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Yes and yes


When you're tasked with protecting individuals and have retreated to the last defensive position and the crazy Qtard lackeys are breaking through the last fortified barrier, it's time to make it rain.

But ya, the shooter should be released along with the reports that document the incident.

Was it a tragic incident? Yes. Was it justified? Yes.

Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/24/21.
Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: Northman] #15830959 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by Northman
Fully justified.

When domestic terrorists have breached the capitol and are within feet of elected lawmakers, deadly force is justified and PERFECTLY OK.

Domestic terrorists? Don't you feel that massive election fraud is domestic terrorism? Babbit is still worth a hundred times more than that hag Pelosi or you for that matter. She was not a leftist coward like you are.


Had the traitors that day been Blacks or Muslims you would by enraged if the Police hadn't opened up fire at ONCE they broke the barricades.

You are a blithering idiot. Race is not all important in the minds of most just leftist scum. Funny how so many looters and arsonists were unharmed last summer, most of them Black.



Meanwhile... Trump watched it on TV for 2 hours, refusing to send help while the US Government was in danger.


Help in what way retard? He called for the violence to stop but I do feel that a stolen election should lead to violence. In fact just seeing the face of some POS leftist scum Biden voter should lead to violence.

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: Jackson_Handy] #15830967 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Yes and yes


When you're tasked with protecting individuals and have retreated to the last defensive position and the crazy Qtard lackeys are breaking through the last fortified barrier, it's time to make it rain.

But ya, the shooter should be released along with the reports that document the incident.


You are still nothing but a POS leftard. That is more grounds for shooting than Babbit had and she was murdered, not threatening anyone. Unlike you exalting in the murder of an American citizen.

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: rickt300] #15830969 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Yes and yes


When you're tasked with protecting individuals and have retreated to the last defensive position and the crazy Qtard lackeys are breaking through the last fortified barrier, it's time to make it rain.

But ya, the shooter should be released along with the reports that document the incident.


You are still nothing but a POS leftard. That is more grounds for shooting than Babbit had and she was murdered, not threatening anyone. Unlike you exalting in the murder of an American citizen.


I voted for Trump and believe the election was stolen by fraud, dumbas s

It wasn't murder. It was a justified homicide

Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/24/21.
Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: Jackson_Handy] #15830979 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Yes and yes


When you're tasked with protecting individuals and have retreated to the last defensive position and the crazy Qtard lackeys are breaking through the last fortified barrier, it's time to make it rain.

But ya, the shooter should be released along with the reports that document the incident.


You are still nothing but a POS leftard. That is more grounds for shooting than Babbit had and she was murdered, not threatening anyone. Unlike you exalting in the murder of an American citizen.


I voted for Trump and believe the election was stolen by fraud, dumbas s


Well then Fuqtard stop exalting in the death of someone who did and felt the same way! If you fail to show moral character go ahead and be a leftist POS because if you think murder is ok with you, especially that of one of us then GFY.

Re: " Ashi Babbitt " Shooting ? [Re: rickt300] #15830986 02/24/21
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Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Yes and yes


When you're tasked with protecting individuals and have retreated to the last defensive position and the crazy Qtard lackeys are breaking through the last fortified barrier, it's time to make it rain.

But ya, the shooter should be released along with the reports that document the incident.


You are still nothing but a POS leftard. That is more grounds for shooting than Babbit had and she was murdered, not threatening anyone. Unlike you exalting in the murder of an American citizen.


I voted for Trump and believe the election was stolen by fraud, dumbas s


Well then Fuqtard stop exalting in the death of someone who did and felt the same way! If you fail to show moral character go ahead and be a leftist POS because if you think murder is ok with you, especially that of one of us then GFY.


It wasn't murder. If that moron hadn't smashed a window that was barricaded and attempted to breach it, she wouldn't be dead. Sometimes stupid hurts, especially if you're a Qtard.

Would you do what she did?

Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/24/21.
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