Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Advice on .416 bullets for buf

I shot a mature bull Bison with a 400 grain partition from a 416 Rigby muzzle velocity of 2370 FPS. Rib cage shot the bullet bulged behind the partition like an A-frame. The lead was 3/16" below the jacket at the base and the base was pinched together as if the bullet tumbled. Penetration did not reached the offside rib cage.

Was not impressed

I agree 100%, I would not go with a PH that insists on solids. When I was organizing my hunt, I asked the PH what he preferred and he stated "Barnes or A-fames, whatever shoots best". Barnes it was, and one shot through the heart took care of it. Asked if I should shoot again and he said might as as well. For the third shot he replied "no, he's dead"


But, per usual, shot placement solves a lot of issues.

I'd bet an exit as well. Excellent terminal performance

Dirtfarmer, these comments aren't directed at you, just to the the general participants of the thread.

Well, people do all sorts of different things and I suppose Bill is probably more experienced than I am. It doesn't sound smart to me, but who am I to say?

In any case, I'm a firm believer in listening to your PH and using his assumed greater experience on hunting buffalo than I possess. If you happen to have the ability to pick and choose your PH and can discuss these things with him ahead of time and then find one that has the same beliefs regarding bullets and hunting buffalo as you do, great! However, in my experience, the hunter doesn't always get to choose. Even if you think you'll be hunting with a certain PH, often times something comes up and you end up with a different PH than intended. Personally, I'm not that wedded to my beliefs on buffalo bullets and buffalo hunting, that I can't be flexible. I'd rather have both softs and solids available and then load accordingly based on the PH's recommendations and the situation at hand.

And, by the way, don't think that PH's don't deal with clients all the time that insist their way is the best and pay no mind to the experience of the PH. You can imagine the regard the PH has for clients like this.

Another bud, 41" Zim buff with 400 gr. TSX out of a Ruger RSM .416 Rigby. Bullet went thru over 50" of buff, found on far side. He ran, they found him dead after trailing him for a ways. Bud says they perused him too quick, he was down, they saw him get up and run into some thick stuff. He relates, trailing a wounded buff in a thicket can be a bit nerve racking. They were relieved when they found him down and dead.

Different PH, different ordinance.

DF

It’s nice to have solids on hand when you happen to see a world class duiker or steenbok and want to take it. Punch through like a pencil.

I have a theory that some of the toughness of Cape Buffalo was perpetrated by using solids of yesteryear. Given the quality of softs back then, solids were the dependable/ logical choice.

I have to go no farther back than witnessing the difference between solids and softs (hollowpoints) out of a 22 rimfire on small game to know which is better for quick humane kills.

Agreed

I killed a nice hippo and a Buff with the 370 gn CEB Safari raptor. Shoot excellent out of my Dakota 416 Rigby. I killed a bunch of other African plains game with it as well. It was a little overkill on some critters but it was the only African caliber I had back in the day.

A HELL of a nice old hard bossed bull there DF, Congrats to your Buddy.

I like CEB Raptors, have shot them in a .308 and a .375 H&H, both surprisingly accurate. I've read that some PH's like them.

I guess until they become better known, more mainstream, the rank and file PH won't even know what they are, must less what they can do...

Like has been said before, those guys are masters of their craft, but not that many are gun nuts. They tend to go with conventional thinking about bullet choices. And, if I was going on my first hunt with one, I'd probably do like my buddy is doing, go with the PH's recommendation.

Some contend it's "your hunt", do your thing. There can be two sides to that story, as there usually are to most stories. I for one, am not gonna try to talk him into using what I may like, but will load what he needs according to the PH's request. He'll have 400 gr. NPT's and 400 gr. SAF's to choose from for the soft and the new Breakaway 400 gr. Swift Solid, tweaked for the same POI. I think he'll be in good shape regardless of the order in which they load those rounds. He's an experienced BG hunter and an accomplished field marksman. When the PH gives him a shot, that buff's gonna get whacked.

DF

Thanks, gunner.

Bud has been in law enforcement most of his career. Retired from a state job, he went to work for the U. S. Marshal Service. He said his biggest challenge was staying is shape to keep with with those guys, many less than half his age. But, he did.

He told his PH, he didn't want an "old man's hunt", and the PH obliged him. He said it was a pretty hard hunt but he kept up with the PH and his guys. Talking to him, I think that was half the pleasure he got out of the experience. Of course, a 41" buff is nothing to sneeze at and it looks good on his wall...

DF

My smallest critter was a serval at ~50 yards with the 350 gr TSX 416 Rem. It's laying in my office with a bushbuck, waterbuck, buffalo and kudu all dropped at the shot. The bullet just worked.

Yep. My PH in Zim used the 400 gr TSX (416 Rigby) with no solids unless, of course, elephant was on the menu.

Sounds like my bud’s Zim PH. I wonder if those guys compare notes, have a regional best use protocol?

DF

Man that's cool as hell, I just had a buff hunt too, averaged 10.5 mi per day with just over 11 being the longest, over mountains and through dry and wet river sand, not an old man hunt I guess, didn't think to ask, still damn near kilt my lazy ass ; ] very glad for your old Bud, hope this other Bud connects and has a hell of a hunt too.

Bud with this buff if a gun nut. He was shooting 400 gr. TSX over 100 gr. H-4831 with Fed 125's out of his .416 Rigby RSM. Said he shot that gun 250-300 times off hand at a hundred, getting ready. (sounds like someone else I know)...

Then killed this buff at 25 yds. with one TSX.

Other bud is an experienced BG hunter, but depends on me to do his gun work, which I don't mind doing. He has a fine hunting property that I use, help with tractor work, etc. In fact, I loaded some 350 Speer "rabbit" loads for him to practice with in his .416 Rem M-70. Well, I'm gonna pull those and seat the 400's, he never shot them.

I'll be doing the sighting, although there may not be that much difference at 50 yds, 350's vs 400's. We'll see. Bill at Swift said to sight at 50 yds. I had sighted the 350's at a hundred on a standing bench.

So, when everything arrives, I'll have (24) Swift Breakaway solids, (50) 400 gr. NPT's and (42) 400 gr. SAF's plus more brass. Bill said to load (3) rounds with the 400 gr. SAF, 73 gr. 74 gr. 75 gr. 4064 and shoot. Then adjust the Solid load for same POI as softs, all at 50 yds. His Swift solids are loaded with 77 gr. 4064.

I'm almost tempted to duplicate Swift factory loads and go shoot. I now know exactly the COAL, load, etc. of Swift A-Frame ammo, both soft and solid, even details on crimping..

Different guys, both good hunters, one a Loony/hunter, one a hunter who's killed more BG in more places than the Loony bud ever thought about. He's shot caribou, moose, elk, bear, deer, nilgai, etc, in the lower 48, Mexico, Alaska and Canada. He had a great PG hunt in RSA 2 yrs ago. I've posted stuff on that hunt and the "magic" 160 gr. NAB 7RM load over RL-26. At least he thinks it's magic, was magic for him. So, now to develop a "magic" .416 Rem load for buff.

DF

LOL, damn good stuff DF, you'll get him pointed in the right direction, good company to keep, "Those Two"

gunner, yeah, they both great guys. The Loony type, I grew up with. The one headed over for buff, I've known around 15 yrs. or so. We hunt together all the time.

With 50 yds being Bill's recommended sight in distance and the gun already sighted for 350 Speers, what's wrong with duplicating Swift A-Frame commercial ammo, getting on the standing bench and tweaking 50 yd. POI with the 400's. Bill said their SAF ammo has 75 gr. 4064, the solid has 77 gr. So, evidently that's how they got the solid load, shooting it behind the SAF load, tweaking until POI was close.

I generally like to work up loads, but we're shooting very expensive stuff, don't have an unlimited supply of components and that thing kicks....

I'm not a hoss like you...

I can duplicate Bill's factory ammo data and go shoot. That doesn't sound too Loony, but at this point, I'm looking for a quick fix, a good result, burning up the least ammo.

What ya think? I won't be able to chrono with the standing bench, but if it's the same load as Swift commercial ammo, who cares.

BTW, I was using 4064 with the 350 Speer load before I knew how cool 4064 actually was... Go figure.

DF

LOL, I'd run with it, you got it handled, plus saving those near unobtainum components, you know, next steak house visit, i'll bring my 416 Rigby I torched the throat in, it's the only rifle I have that has whisker burns on the side of the stock and my right pinky finger wore the blue off the face of the steel grip cap, I shot the chit out of that thing getting ready for Africa, read to many mage about it I guess.

Am going back to the Limpopo this fall, come hell or high water.