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Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
And then farming will stop.

MM


No, it won’t. The owners will be in China or Silicon Valley and farmers will all be hired hands.


Sort of a return to serfdom ....

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Originally Posted by 30Gibbs
Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
And then farming will stop.

MM


No, it won’t. The owners will be in China or Silicon Valley and farmers will all be hired hands.


Sort of a return to serfdom ....


Shades of F.A. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom.


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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Dutch


This is absolutely true, but it clearly shows how horrible farming is as a use of capital. Were someone to sell and invest that $5.4 million at the average rate for the last 100 years (which is over 11%), it would create an income of more than $500,000 per year. Few, if any, farms realize that net, or come even close to half that, meaning the farmers, in effect, are paying $300,000 or more per year for the privilege to farm.

I know, I know, that's an over simplification, ignoring value gains of the farms among others, but it's still too close to the truth to be comfortable.


It's going to be less than $5.4 million after taxes. But, what you're saying is what is happening in some places, especially where towns are expanding out to swallow up farms for housing. Even then, a lot of farmers run the money through 1031 exchanges and buy more farm land farther out in order to avoid the tax bite.

If you buy a stock, do you expect the dividends to pay for it? No. Part of the calculation is the expected appreciation of the stock price. Same with land, be it farm, timberland, or your house and lot. Also, land is somewhat like gold, a store of value. In JoeBob's example, the land went from $900 to $9,000 in 40 years. That's about a 6% return without taking into account the annual income from the farm.



Annual income from the farm is quite an assumption. There’s also the distinct possibility of annual losses,


The farm entity might not show a profit, but the farmer draws a salary and that salary is part of the farm's operating expense. As a purchaser of farm land, around here you can get anywhere from $80 to $100 per acre, sometimes more, per acre per year in cash rent, payable at the beginning of the year. So $90 an acre cash rent on $3,000 per acre land is a 3% return annually.



Sounds like all farmers have it made.


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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Dutch


This is absolutely true, but it clearly shows how horrible farming is as a use of capital. Were someone to sell and invest that $5.4 million at the average rate for the last 100 years (which is over 11%), it would create an income of more than $500,000 per year. Few, if any, farms realize that net, or come even close to half that, meaning the farmers, in effect, are paying $300,000 or more per year for the privilege to farm.

I know, I know, that's an over simplification, ignoring value gains of the farms among others, but it's still too close to the truth to be comfortable.


It's going to be less than $5.4 million after taxes. But, what you're saying is what is happening in some places, especially where towns are expanding out to swallow up farms for housing. Even then, a lot of farmers run the money through 1031 exchanges and buy more farm land farther out in order to avoid the tax bite.

If you buy a stock, do you expect the dividends to pay for it? No. Part of the calculation is the expected appreciation of the stock price. Same with land, be it farm, timberland, or your house and lot. Also, land is somewhat like gold, a store of value. In JoeBob's example, the land went from $900 to $9,000 in 40 years. That's about a 6% return without taking into account the annual income from the farm.



Annual income from the farm is quite an assumption. There’s also the distinct possibility of annual losses,


The farm entity might not show a profit, but the farmer draws a salary and that salary is part of the farm's operating expense. As a purchaser of farm land, around here you can get anywhere from $80 to $100 per acre, sometimes more, per acre per year in cash rent, payable at the beginning of the year. So $90 an acre cash rent on $3,000 per acre land is a 3% return annually.



Might want to pass this on to Jim Conrad up in his like Walmart thread.


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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Dutch


This is absolutely true, but it clearly shows how horrible farming is as a use of capital. Were someone to sell and invest that $5.4 million at the average rate for the last 100 years (which is over 11%), it would create an income of more than $500,000 per year. Few, if any, farms realize that net, or come even close to half that, meaning the farmers, in effect, are paying $300,000 or more per year for the privilege to farm.

I know, I know, that's an over simplification, ignoring value gains of the farms among others, but it's still too close to the truth to be comfortable.


It's going to be less than $5.4 million after taxes. But, what you're saying is what is happening in some places, especially where towns are expanding out to swallow up farms for housing. Even then, a lot of farmers run the money through 1031 exchanges and buy more farm land farther out in order to avoid the tax bite.

If you buy a stock, do you expect the dividends to pay for it? No. Part of the calculation is the expected appreciation of the stock price. Same with land, be it farm, timberland, or your house and lot. Also, land is somewhat like gold, a store of value. In JoeBob's example, the land went from $900 to $9,000 in 40 years. That's about a 6% return without taking into account the annual income from the farm.



Annual income from the farm is quite an assumption. There’s also the distinct possibility of annual losses,

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It's not law yet.


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Originally Posted by toltecgriz
Transfer and "equalization" of wealth.

there won't be an equalization, just the opposite


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Originally Posted by FlyboyFlem
Originally Posted by RJY66
Originally Posted by FlyboyFlem
A goodly portion of the AG community help put Biden in the Oval, they may just reap what they sowed...


First the Union "working people" now the farmers. Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so.


Since I've spent 30 + yrs working for farmers especially in SE Nebraska and SW Iowa the trend hasn't been so much toward the left as there are many Repubs across both states..The ones I know well most likely won't change parties but will vote to protect their family's livelihood which Trump tariffs put in jeopardy..

Sorry FlyboyFlem, I don't think you are seeing the big picture and I have to disagree with you. I know the farmers do not like the tariffs and embargoes because it hits their bottom line. But, the biggest problem is China and every farmer I know does not like the interference that China has become. China is buying land and driving up ground prices. China is also importing huge amounts of goods formerly made in America and pushing America in to a Service industry country instead of a Manufacturing country.

Like many Americans, farmers are afraid of and greatly dislike big government. If things don't change, it is a matter of time before China will be dictating to the American government what policies are acceptable and what they will stand for in competition for commodities and manufactured goods. Only the really big and super rich mega farming organizations who can buy government influence approve of a big powerful government. But I think all are fearful of a big and powerful China. At least the ones I know are.

Yes, the tariffs stink and so do embargoes. If the Chinese were buying American pork and not eating wild bats would we have been hit with Covid 19 ?? Or is this retaliation for Donald Trump standing up to them. 9 out of 10 farmers I know voted for Donald Trump and less government even with the tariffs and embargoes in place because they can see ahead as well as we can and they don't like what they see either.
kwg

Last edited by kwg020; 02/25/21.

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Originally Posted by wabigoon
It's not law yet.



Who will stop them?


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Don't know Barry, still it's foolish to react too soon.

That's what our lawyer said today.


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Frankly I see lots of civil disobedience coming.

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Originally Posted by sse
Originally Posted by toltecgriz
Transfer and "equalization" of wealth.

there won't be an equalization, just the opposite

Boy....thats right.


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
Don't know Barry, still it's foolish to react too soon.

That's what our lawyer said today.


You can’t react yet. You don’t know for sure what they are going to do. We know what they are thinking about doing, but as we’ve seen, things happen.

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Originally Posted by kwg020
Originally Posted by FlyboyFlem
Originally Posted by RJY66
Originally Posted by FlyboyFlem
A goodly portion of the AG community help put Biden in the Oval, they may just reap what they sowed...


First the Union "working people" now the farmers. Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so.


Since I've spent 30 + yrs working for farmers especially in SE Nebraska and SW Iowa the trend hasn't been so much toward the left as there are many Repubs across both states..The ones I know well most likely won't change parties but will vote to protect their family's livelihood which Trump tariffs put in jeopardy..

Sorry FlyboyFlem, I don't think you are seeing the big picture and I have to disagree with you. I know the farmers do not like the tariffs and embargoes because it hits their bottom line. But, the biggest problem is China and every farmer I know does not like the interference that China has become. China is buying land and driving up ground prices. China is also importing huge amounts of goods formerly made in America and pushing America in to a Service industry country instead of a Manufacturing country.

Like many Americans, farmers are afraid of and greatly dislike big government. If things don't change, it is a matter of time before China will be dictating to the American government what policies are acceptable and what they will stand for in competition for commodities and manufactured goods. Only the really big and super rich mega farming organizations who can buy government influence approve of a big powerful government. But I think all are fearful of a big and powerful China. At least the ones I know are.

Yes, the tariffs stink and so do embargoes. If the Chinese were buying American pork and not eating wild bats would we have been hit with Covid 19 ?? Or is this retaliation for Donald Trump standing up to them. 9 out of 10 farmers I know voted for Donald Trump and less government even with the tariffs and embargoes in place because they can see ahead as well as we can and they don't like what they see either.
kwg



I certainly get the big picture however since you're in the Des Moines area you are aware that we've had two so-called hundred year floods that devastated not only the entire state of Ne but areas of Iowa along the Missouri R from Sioux city to the Missouri line.

Many land owners lost everything including homes,Ag businesses,,tons of grain in storage and had thousands of acres of valuable farm land ruined for years to come..Some have left the hardest hit areas never to return and others have managed to barely hang on by a thread just recently finally getting a crop in the ground this past year..The tariffs & embargoes while they were in the recovery stage is / was devastating many are still recovering .. Never thought I'd see so many rural Biden/Harris posters in my travels but they were there to my dismay..Ethanol is more salt in their wounds however new farm bills need to address average farm families as well as big corporate entities that can sustain themselves and survive Mother Nature's wrath or national crisis.


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Originally Posted by BobBrown
I wonder how a family trust plays into this scheme of those thieving mf ers


Or incorporating the family business.


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This is forcing my wife to discuss the family farm with her father. Trying to figure out how to maybe move forward so that worthless Democrats don’t use their family farm to buy more votes from other worthless pieces of crap in metropolitan areas


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This is their way of giving our white farmers farms to blacks. They said they was going to improve black farmers!

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
And then farming will stop.

MM

No. It will continue but all will be shipped to China on Chinese ships.


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Quote
If you go into a nursing home, like a lot of older folks do, state can go back as far as 10 years after your property. In Ga, pretty much everyone gets it to their kids as soon as they can to prepare for this in case it happens.
Medicaid Estate Recovery is federal law throughout the country. Two-thirds of people in nursing homes are funded by Medicaid. If you die and you’ve been a Medicaid recipient (especially of long-term health care), the state government (by federal law) goes after whatever they can get from the estate of the deceased.


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