24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
W
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
I plan on building a .220 Swift this year. The cartridge is set, I have to scratch the itch. Plan to focus on 60-80gr bullets....especially looking at the 77gr TMK.

I plan to build this on a M700, duplicate a Remington sporter contour and stick it in a HS take off stock.

As the subject implies, I am wondering if I should stick with a short action or if I should go ahead and opt for a long action to allow for more COL latitude.

Who's BTDT?

BP-B2

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
K
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
go swift AI if you are going down this road, will mitigate brass flow and trimming brass every firing or ever other firing. ON a short action with the longer bullets, you will be at max mag length on a brand new barrel and not be near the lands....depending on the throat length. Since you are thinking on heavies, think 88g Hornady first, and a 85.5g full bore second, 80.5g Berger Second, 77g tMK 4th.

You will NOT be a happy camper with a std swift in these intense loads with heavy bullets, pressures run high, and std swift design really sucks in terms of brass flow, thickening necks, with full length sizing and trimming on each firing required. The Swift AI, solves a lot of problems, and turning necks in a fitted chamber solves more problems.

Figure 800 round barrel life.

I shot the barrels out of 4 swifts years ago, two Ruger 77 and two Savage 112J. We fought brass problems to eliminate flyers. Brass flowing into the neck is a killer as the necks thicken up. Swift AI is a monster, and you will have amazing success with turn necks.

There is a a point where speed/accuracy starts declining, and the 22 Creed along with the 22/250 AI is optimum. I also run 22/243 AI, and chasing carbon fouling takes the most educated of those that know how to clean a barrel. If you are wanting an adventure, go 22 Grendel for an amazing experience.

Do your homework War Eagle, good times abound. I have stated the problems three times, I hope you can understand the complexities in solving these problems that are like a revolving door of accuracy killers.

Last edited by keith; 02/25/21.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
D
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
D
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Keith, you have any feeding issues in your swifts? I heard the rim can snag on round below so you have to stagger them in mag.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
W
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
Originally Posted by keith
ON a short action with the longer bullets, you will be at max mag length on a brand new barrel and not be near the lands.


This was a concern and the driver to asking the question.


Originally Posted by keith
go swift AI if you are going down this road, will mitigate brass flow and trimming brass every firing or ever other firing.

[snip]

You will NOT be a happy camper with a std swift in these intense loads with heavy bullets, pressures run high, and std swift design really sucks in terms of brass flow, thickening necks, with full length sizing and trimming on each firing required. The Swift AI, solves a lot of problems, and turning necks in a fitted chamber solves more problems.


The Swift AI is not entirely out of the cards...I get that the case is dated and modern case geometries (or AI'ing) solves the problems associated with tapered cases and sloped shoulders. Not entirely decided on that option yet but appreciate you mentioning it. I think if I went with an AI case, it would be the .22-250 AI. I also recognize that the .22-250 gives me some better options at the very start just due to availability of brass and specifically the availability of more quality brass options.

Something about the Swift though....

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,718
K
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,718
I really like my 22-250AI and have no complaints. When the barrel gives up it will be rebarreled in 22 creedmoor. I’ve never considered fire forming to be a chore but if you can skip it and get the same results.? Anyway just another thought to toss in the discussion.



IC B2

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,640
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,640
The first 220 Swift I ever bought was a Winchester "heavy Varmint", Winchester short push feed action in a HS Precision stock.
I love this rifle but found out very quick that the magazine is useless, I have always used it as a single shot.
If you want a repeater you need a long action.

most of the brass issues keith mention's can be mitigated (not eliminated) using Norma brass, I will never use Win. brass again.
I must admit for most of my long range 22 cal chores I use a 22-250AI but still have love for the Swift

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 576
R
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 576
I will give you another perspective. I like the standard swift very much. Not many rounds shoot flatter. I have a Ruger heavy barrel model with the laminated stock. It is very heavy to carry long distances thru the deep snow. So I am within a couple weeks of having a pre-64 M70 action returned with a new douglas barrel. It will be a duplicate of the original M70 standard grade barrel which was 26" in length with a 1-12 twist. My sole use for this will be coyote hunting-mostly calling but some baiting as well. I doubt I will ever get a shot over an honest 300 yards and the huge majority will be far less. I'm in the upper midwest so usually I can't see much past a couple hundred yards and most coming to a call are maybe 125-150 yards. So I have no need for the really heavy bullets that the guys with really fast twist like. In my Ruger swift, I'm currently using 50 gr. bullets for coyote and that is with a 1-14 twist. The 1-12 will shoot 60 gr. very well which is as heavy as I need. I do not shoot a lot: I don't shoot hundreds and hundreds of rounds in load development to get the last tiny bit of accuracy out of a rifle. I work up a load with a bullet I like and then hunt with it. I have read many accounts of guys that have many more than 800 rounds thru their swifts and still shooting good, so it sounds to me that barrel burn-out at 800 is from lots of shooting with the barrel getting HOT which mine do not. Another round with the long sloping case design is the .300 H&H and you never hear of people that own these having to trim every time. They absolutely love them. In my opinion, as a coyote rifle, the swift is hard to beat. Have fun.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,698
D
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
D
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,698
I’m on my second custom 220 swift. Shot the barrel out PD shooting, 20 years ago. Current one is the replacement, made 20 years ago. I use it for coyotes only, so the round count is low.
Both built on R 700 short actions. Both feed an function fine. I shoot only 50 grain bullets. When filling the magazine make sure the semi rim on each cartridge is just ahead of the cartridge below it.
It’s a great round and a death ray on coyotes.

Last edited by dale06; 02/26/21.

NRA Patron
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
I would do a short action, then chamber it in .22 Creedmoor....

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,413
T
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,413
Originally Posted by War_Eagle
I plan on building a .220 Swift this year. The cartridge is set, I have to scratch the itch. Plan to focus on 60-80gr bullets....especially looking at the 77gr TMK.

I plan to build this on a M700, duplicate a Remington sporter contour and stick it in a HS take off stock.

As the subject implies, I am wondering if I should stick with a short action or if I should go ahead and opt for a long action to allow for more COL latitude.

Who's BTDT?


Have not BTDT, not with heavies in the Swift. I had a 700 VSSF in .220 Swift years ago that was an absolute terror, half inch 5 shot groups with 50 grain ballistic tips within spitting distance of 4000 fps. I've also messed with the 77 grain TMK in an AR which gave me a bit o' experience with those long doggies in a magazine with limited length. Puttin' the pieces together, here's what I'd do:

I would pick a good varmint bullet, either 60 grain VMAX or 60 grain Ballistic Tip, seat to something slightly under magazine length, and have the reamer cut for that. Then either load the heavies long and single feed or load them at mag length and see what happens. Sometimes a bit of jump is not a bad thing.

The idea of a .22 Creedmoor is not a bad notion. You said 60 to 80 grains for bullet weight. If your focus is on the 80s more than the 60s, the shorter Creedmoor case may be the way to go. Like you, though, the Swift case just ... captures my imagination.


Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.

Here be dragons ...
IC B3

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
W
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
Originally Posted by liliysdad
I would do a short action, then chamber it in .22 Creedmoor....

Originally Posted by War_Eagle
I plan on building a .220 Swift this year. The cartridge is set, I have to scratch the itch.


The .22 Creed may be awesome....but this will not be the build that I use to investigate the Creed.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
W
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,943
Originally Posted by ruffedgrouse
...snip...
My sole use for this will be coyote hunting
...snip...
I doubt I will ever get a shot over an honest 300 yards and the huge majority will be far less.
...snip...
I don't shoot hundreds and hundreds of rounds in load development to get the last tiny bit of accuracy out of a rifle. I work up a load with a bullet I like and then hunt with it.
...snip...

Picking a few sentences from your response RuffedGrouse, these statements are much the same as how this rifle will be used...coyotes will be a random opportunity with deer being the primary goal.



Originally Posted by T_O_M
Have not BTDT, not with heavies in the Swift. I had a 700 VSSF in .220 Swift years ago that was an absolute terror, half inch 5 shot groups with 50 grain ballistic tips within spitting distance of 4000 fps. I've also messed with the 77 grain TMK in an AR which gave me a bit o' experience with those long doggies in a magazine with limited length. Puttin' the pieces together, here's what I'd do:

I would pick a good varmint bullet, either 60 grain VMAX or 60 grain Ballistic Tip, seat to something slightly under magazine length, and have the reamer cut for that. Then either load the heavies long and single feed or load them at mag length and see what happens. Sometimes a bit of jump is not a bad thing.

The idea of a .22 Creedmoor is not a bad notion. You said 60 to 80 grains for bullet weight. If your focus is on the 80s more than the 60s, the shorter Creedmoor case may be the way to go. Like you, though, the Swift case just ... captures my imagination.


T_O_M, I'm probably going to shoot you a PM about the 77 TMK's in the AR if you're okay with that....but back to the Swift application....

As I mentioned above, this will be a hunting rifle and I plan to have deer on the menu (90-150lb whitetails). I mentioned the 77 TMK because of several positive reports I have read with this bullet and deer. I suspect I will also experiment with the 60gr NPT and 62gr TTSX at some point. I would not expect those two bullets to require a long action for optimum seating...but I didn't want to hamper myself from the start if the 69/70 or 77/80 varieties are where I settle (especially if they NEED the mag room). Your suggestion on throating to a 60gr bullet at mag length is a good idea.

Keith mentioned a few other bullets heavier than what I mentioned. If I am getting into the territory of 85gr, 90gr or heavier bullets, my mind says I should be reaching for a 6mm of some flavor (which I also have).

This build will not see hours on the bench or on a PD field, I have a couple of .223 Rem's and another .220 Swift for that. The current Swift is a Ruger #1V w/ 14" twist. If I decided to play with the real heavy bullets (80-90gr) in the Swift, it would be in this rifle following a rebarrel (absolutely NO magazine constraints with that set up laugh)

Not sure if that additional info affects the suggestions...but that is what has steered my frame of mind for this build.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,185
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,185
2 years ago i built a Ruger #1 220 Swift with a Brux 26 inch barrel , #4 contour ,1-10 twist . i built this rifle to shoot coyotes and not ruin the hides, i use 60 gr. Nosler Partitions rifle shoots great. good luck with your build,Pete53

Last edited by pete53; 02/26/21.

LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 576
R
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 576
mr. war eagle: I did not think to mention that I have shot a few deer with my Ruger Swift. I used 60 gr. Hornady SPs and they performed very acceptably. I don't remember if they shot clear thru, but I do remember on one buck that I found it under the hide on the off side. So based on my limited experience, 3-4 deer as I remember, I think the Swift is probably a very good deer killer with the right bullet. With bullets like the barnes and Nosler P. I honestly can think of no reason for something heavier in weight. So it was from that standpoint that I selected the 1-12 twist in the new barrel as I think I will be covered well for coyotes and an occasional deer with the 50-60 grain bullets. I know that the fast twist guys who want to shoot the very heavy bullets for longer ranges disagree, but I'm not either good enough or comfortable shooting past 300 yds or so. Also, on coyotes, in my experience, you don't have time to twist dials on your scope.

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,185
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,185
ruffedgrouse, your right when shooting at running coyotes while using dogs ,its kinda of a Kentucky windage thing, but if you do enough of it you will roll many of those coyotes. there is no time to twist a knob on a scope or check the distance , you just shoot ! and my Ruger #1 mounts and swings quick for me.


LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 584
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 584
Always wanted to do a Swift on a single shot action. If I do a bolt action it will be the Creedmoor on a short action, I have a PT&G 3.2" mag box should I need it. The standard action will get you up to 80 grain bullets with out too much intrusion into the powder area. The 220 AI would appeal also and I would load down like a 22 Howell to standard Swift velocity to improve brass and barrel life and less trimming.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,640
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,640
Originally Posted by War_Eagle


As I mentioned above, this will be a hunting rifle and I plan to have deer on the menu (90-150lb whitetails). I mentioned the 77 TMK because of several positive reports I have read with this bullet and deer. Your suggestion on throating to a 60gr bullet at mag length is a good idea.


It seems you are going in two different directions........If you want to shoot the 77 TMK get it throated for that bullet,
would not be that good of an idea to throat it for a 60gr bullet unless that is what you plan to use.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,914
H
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
H
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,914
Have two 220 Rockets here that were throated for the 75 A-Max, both on short actions. One is a single shot, one a repeater.

Barrel life is kinda short, but the two rifles have been a blast to shoot over the years and the 75 AMax blows up PD's like you hit them with a 50 V-Max, and then some.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
K
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,195
In the Ruger, I did not have feeding problems, the savages were single shots.

Swift AI is a real monster, strong brass.

80g A max is a great deer bullet, shoot them through the slats, you will not recover the bullet.



If you were to build a dedicated deer/hog rifle, the Swift AI would just be awesome, Fire form your cases with 14g of Bullseye and cream of wheat, then go full power loads or fire form on hair like I do.

I would order a reamer with .050 freebore on the Swift AI, will serve you well with bullet ranges from 60-80g with a little throating to be done on an 88g, maybe.

If you can find any, the 62-75g Speer Gold dots are bonded core bullets, but a schitty BC..

If the Swift AI is not your huckleberry, then a 6 Rem AI will shoot the 80's at 3650 and never full length size the case, with 3800 is reality if you stomp on the gas. You can comfortably shoot the 80's at 3550 in the 243 AI, but it is hard on brass at higher velocities.

IF you go 22/250 AI, be sure of two things:

Go Lapua brass

have your reamer spec'd out for CIP(European)brass, NOT SAAMI(American)brass which is smaller in the web, This is a major [bleep] up for many that go down this road not knowing what kind of reamer is being used.

NOTE: the Swift AI has a lot of powder capacity, and stuffing the bullet down in the case will not hamper powder capacity.

Last edited by keith; 02/26/21.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,914
H
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
H
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,914
The 80 A-Max is definitely stouter than the 75, at least they often bore through PD's, not ungluing as well as the 75s, despite close shots and only being driven 100fps less.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
739 members (10ring1, 10gaugemag, 10gaugeman, 02bfishn, 12308300, 11point, 86 invisible), 2,822 guests, and 1,247 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,702
Posts18,400,027
Members73,820
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.145s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9038 MB (Peak: 1.0802 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 00:21:31 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS