Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game Planning First Trip to SD

I will grant you that if all the lands around have been planted and harvested, then the birds are going to be concentrated along the roads, because that is where the only cover is. For a good hunt away from roads you have to find land that is not cultivated, or at least hasn't been for some years. Sloughs aren't, because they are too wet too much of the year, but they can also be real nasty to walk through. Ideal are the farms that leave not only the sloughs uncultivated but also some shelter belts and former CRP land.

I will also grant you that in rural SD a thousand dogs are cut by barbed wire for every one that get cut on litter glass, but I can usually fix a wire cut myself, where there is no fixing a sliced pad, short of letting them heal for a month. Also, dogs will eventually learn to avoid the barbs, where they will never learn to avoid broken glass.

A good dog will eventually learn how to deal with a running bird, meaning learn how to trap it without over-running it and making it fly. The pup in the photo is learning how to do that. But while he still over-runs some 100 yards out and makes them fly, I do not think that, had I had no dog along, I would have ever gotten a shot either. My experience is that the birds run from whatever they see (or hear), and that is far more likely to be the taller, talking people than the dog.

And no matter what else is going on, or how good a shot you are, there are always roosters where the only damage was a broken wing, and without a dog you have just about zero chance of finding it. So the dog is going to be along with me any way. For me it is never a choice of "will it be better to take the dog or not?" The dog is going along. If he isn't trained yet, well, okay, then that day will be a training day and I my not get many, or any, shots, but that's okay -- I am preparing for future hunts.

It takes years to train a dog to be great in all aspects of pheasant hunting. Most people don't have the time or the patience. I don't know any other way to do it other than to let the birds train the dog. I can teach them to NOT do something (like bite porcupines) with an e-collar, but I can't train them to DO something, like figuring out which direction a running rooster is going and then circling out to the front to cut them off, then holding them on point until I can get there to flush the bird. Many will, however, learn that from the birds, eventually. (There is that word again. )

Concerning porcupines, I NEVER take a dog hunting without having a pair of needle-nose pliers on me. I have never had to take a quilled dog to the vet, and that is a good thing since a vet is often several hours away from where I am hunting. In that time some of those quills would have disappeared into the dog, doing who knows what damage.

I am not sure I agree that when I am dogless (as I am right now) that I am shooting more birds than a limit (and yes, I often do fill my limit). I have lost cripples no doubt, but I have lost them with dogs too. There's very little doubt a good dog increases chances of finding a cripple but that doesn't mean I always loose one before limiting out. Far from it. That just makes me want to hunt the fence lines and field edges even more as if they hit the ground in a spot I can see and if they are crippled, I can often swat them if need be, though that is a fairly rare need.

Canal banks is an Idaho and Montana thing. There's usually some cover left along the canals that flow water to the fields.
I love hunting the thick cattail soughs, and do quite often when birds are in thick cover. I don't mind getting in the middle of them and pushing through, especially if they're not too tall. I rarely hunt private ground but have on occasion. I'd like to more as the birds for sure seem much less pressured.

Dogs may learn to avoid the barb wire that they see, but there are plenty of old fences everywhere including those state sections and the sloughs that they don't see until they run into it at full speed. I've seen that a fair amount with some pretty experienced dogs and have seen some pretty big flaps of skin get ripped from heads, armpits and "wrists" I guess you could call them. Sometimes the dog is not even on a scent. They're just hunting hard.

You'll get no argument from me concerning cripples, but as far as birds running out in front of the dogs, I am talking the long distant runners. The ones that won't let a dog within 1-200+ yards of them and that flush that far away from the dog if they run out of cover. They often do that with just people pushing them too, however there's pretty much no chance of a dog getting that kind of a bird cornered, no matter how good that dog is. I guess I could be wrong but I believe some educated birds can sense a dog actively tracking them, and act differently than they do when a person is just walking around. Maybe it has something to do with evolving with whatever wild dogs there are in China, or wherever it is that they originated from. I dunno but it is something I have come to believe after hunting pheasants for so many years in so many places and situations.

Porcupines....ya....normally we just cut the quills and then yank them out and go about our day, but the example I gave was when my springer landed on one. He had quills jammed up in his lungs, not just in his mouth/snout/ears. Luckily we were only an hour or so from town when that happened.

You know, you're saying some pretty weird stuff. I have never seen a bird that would not let my dog within 100 yards of him. But even if such alert and skittish birds did exist, how are you going to get within shooting range? If the dog can't get up on them, you sure aren't.



"Jammed up in his LUNGS?" So the quills penetrated the skin and rib-cage and were into the LUNGS. I'm sorry but that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long while. The only reason I can think of for you to say something like that is that the vet TOLD you the dog had quills into his lungs. But if so, that happened during the ride to the vet. Right after the encounter there would have been no quills far into muscle, but the barbs on the quills make them work in fast. This is why I tell people you better be ready to extract all the quills yourself, on the spot, because waiting until you can get to a vet may have a very bad result.

I did have a shorthair accidentally come down on a porcupine once while bounding through high grass. He had quills in his side, leg and foot, but those quills were all much, much easier to remove than ones in the mouth of a dog that has bitten a porcupine.

I've heard of cutting quills and even tried it once years ago when I was green at it. I don't do it now because it is a waste of time, and time is a very valuable commodity when you've got a dog with quills in it.

A hard and hot Springer or English Cocker flusher will often put a Pheasant up 100 yards out....If they have the cover, and are runners, they will run until their choice is to fly or be chomped on....And you are not going to keep up with the chase. Have only had one that figured out the game and got ahead of them on occasion. A wild Pheasants hearing never fails to impress me...Have had more than one get up at 100 yards out,...and with the Dog at heal... too many times to think it was only happenstance. Or one or a couple get up, which sets off a chain reaction, and others get out....and some at 100 plus. Hunting dogless, or with a Pointer or flusher it makes no difference.

All of this makes me believe that pure wild Pheasants are a different Bird than the salted fields at "Thunder Chicken" lodge...Still, I wouldn't mind hunting there on occasion..Just for the opportunity to fire up your Dog,,,and the shooting....

The vets will tell you cutting Porcupine quills to make removal easier is not the thing to do....Have had to remove them from mine and friends Dogs a few times. It is often not a one man chore...He had a Dog die from a quill....He missed one and it found its way into the Dogs stomach...

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/porcupine-quills-in-dogs-and-their-dangers

Addition: The hearing of a great Dog is also something that never fails to impress me...The great ones will hear a Bird hit the ground when shot...even tho they didn't see the fall...and go right to it. Some will find a hit Bird that sails on a long way before coming down...A good Dog most definitely puts more Birds into the bag with less shots fired....

I may be saying some weird stuff, but I suspect that is because I often hunt differently than most people, my way and the way that I prefer to do so. I have learned to not do what most people do, and not go where most people go. I often pheasant hunt the small, overlooked areas and hunt them by myself, which allows for different techniques than what tradition dictates. I have zero desire to push huge fields with multiple dogs and blockers at the end, even though that can be effective. I have done that, but just don't enjoy doing it that way.

I must confirm though: you've never seen a pheasant so pressured that it flushes 100+ yards out from you or your dog? I've on (somewhat rare) occasion seen birds flush 300 yards away before I even get out of the pickup. As far as getting within shooting range of those birds, that was exactly my point....it generally isn't going to happen. Quite often they run from you and then hold tight when the cover ends, but often enough they don't and flush when they hit the end of that cover, whether you're nearby or not. Maybe a dog could run a huge loop and get in front of the skittish bird and then push then it back towards you, but a dog that far out would probably be getting yelled at or zapped to work closer anyhow, for a pheasant dog at least. Some dogs are smart enough I have no doubt, but it'd also take a good handler to realize when that is happening and act appropriately.







I was 12-13 and yes, just relaying what the vet had said. I don't remember a lot of the details. Maybe he landed more on his side and quills had a 50/50 chance of hitting a rib or not and missed the sternum. I dunno. We also didn't immediately realize what had happened because he kept working the thick cover for a little while, as it was a big cattail slough and keeping an eye on him just wasn't feasible. It didn't take long to realize something was wrong with him though. I am sure the quills did work their way deeper during that time as well as the ride to the vet, but have not really thought about that until now. The word "jammed" may not have been the best verb to use and I'll withdraw it, but then again when jumping and landing on something, who knows? He had no quills in his mouth or feet, IIRC. Only his chest/side.

I do find the quills are easier to pull if cut first, but maybe it is just me mentally thinking they're easier to yank out when done so. Maybe it also has something to do with back quills and tail quills being thicker and longer than head/belly/leg quills? Hell if I know. I do know porcupines piss me off and I kill every one that I see.

I'll take that advice on the quills, the next time I am in that situation. Old habits die hard, I guess. The "splintering" quote in that article does make some sense, and I guess I had never really thought about that possibility.

I have thought about a dog hearing a bird hitting the ground, then homing in on it based solely on that and have seen some evidence of that happening. A dog's senses are that good and based on how far out I have seen coyotes respond to a fairly low volume/pitch distress call and be able to home in on the exact source of the sound, some bird dog's ears could for sure pick that out and then put 2 and 2 together, especially an experienced dog.

You know speaking of that, I know of one really good lab that died from an infection that (supposedly) stemmed from a 6-10" cheatgrass stalk that somehow found it's way completely up into the dog's nasal cavity.

There's lots of hazards for dogs out there and a guy has to accept the possibility of them getting hurt/killed if he is going to hunt over a dog. It pains me because I am a total dog lover and want to get another once my living situation allows for it.

It is certainly better to have someone to help you restrain the dog while doing quill removal, but I have done it alone several times. Any dog of mine learns early to let me do "procedures" on them -- trimming nails, cleaning teeth, etc. They don't like cooperating with quill removal but all of my dogs have let me do it.

Probably the biggest reason it is a good idea to let a vet do it is that it is easy to miss a quill after 30 minutes of wrestling with the dog, and that can be the one that kills it.

But for me often "taking them to a vet" is simply not an option, nor is it necessary. For me quills screw up an hour of two, they don't cause me to punch out of the entire hunt. You dog or situation may differ, however.

A good dog, if put on a lot of wild birds at a young age, will figure them out including running roosters. It too about 20 contacts with far running roosters for my dog to figure out the best way was to do a long semi circle in front of the them about 100 to 150 yards to cut them off then work back to me. Not always successful but pretty impressive. I tend to park at least a 1/4 mile from hunting areas, I don't slam my doors, I dont use a whistle, bells or a beeper, and try and use hand signals and vibrate on her collar., often dont wear blaze orange if not required ( I think educated birds learn to avoid orange) , and I will heal my dog til I get to the field. I'll often enter a hunting area from the backside if possible where hunters usually end their hunt. It might take a lot of extra walking but its worth it.