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Okay, so what's the deal with the "revolutionary discovery" that full length sizing is unquestionably better for accuracy than neck sizing?
(referencing a video online interviewing a who's who of F-class shooters unanimously in favor of Full Length sizing).

I am a reloader of 50 years experience. I gravitate toward techniques that have proven themselves to me, and try to avoid techniques that "get into the weeds", favoring practicality of methods.
Neck sizing or partial sizing in an FL die has shown me documentable advantage (I document nearly every round/group fired on target along with chrono readings).

The recent contention for full length sizing seems almost rabid. Not even a step away from claiming neck sizing has been an Emperor Without Clothes all along, and neck sizing dies are a waste of money and should be thrown away.

Can someone recently encountering this, and/or "making the transition" explain what is going on here? Are these decorated competition shooters "hiding" something when they advocate Full Length Sizing? Is it not truly "Full Length Sizing" as is commonly understood? (Full travel of ram to shellholder cam-over.) I see some in the video adding "two thousandths!" (shoulder bump) to their advocacy, indicating not your garden-variety Joe Six Pack full sizing in a common market die.

What "revolutionary discovery" renders all the neck sizing and partial sizing done (and equipment sold for such) for decades now all a falsehood?


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I don't think it's that FL sizing is more accurate than Neck sizing, but rather that FL sizing isn't less accurate than Neck sizing and is generally more reliable for their type of shooting.

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I routinely set garden variety FL dies to produce two or three thousandths shoulder setback. While this doesn't size the case as much as the die may be capable of doing, it does size the entirety of the case and so is full length sizing. It's just not full length sizing more than necessary.

It appears you've wound yourself up into a state of righteous indignation or the like over terminology.

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Originally Posted by mathman
I routinely set garden variety FL dies to produce two or three thousandths shoulder setback. While this doesn't size the case as much as the die may be capable of doing, it does size the entirety of the case and so is full length sizing. It's just not full length sizing more than necessary.

It appears you've wound yourself up into a state of righteous indignation or the like over terminology.




Originally Posted by Petro
I don't think it's that FL sizing is more accurate than Neck sizing, but rather that FL sizing isn't less accurate than Neck sizing and is generally more reliable for their type of shooting.


Some of these champions were also bench rest shooters. Still advocating "full length resizing". As I suspected, they are probably NOT advocating it as the term is commonly understood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaqg4sJvg24


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I've spent 50 years listening to.people argue this same question and have only a couple of things to say about it. If you only have 1 (one) gun chambered for said cartridge do whatever trips your trigger and gives you the results you want. If you have more than 1 (one) gun chambered for the same cartridge you are short sighted fool to resize them differently for each gun. Size them SO THEY WILL WORK IN ANY GUN OF THE SAME CHAMBERING you have. Murphy is hard at work when you are getting your stuff together for a hunt with lots of things on your mind and even worse if you are also organizing for a woman or kid also. Don't get ANAL ABOUT YOUR RELIABILITY of your ammo to function correctly every single time. You asked. I have spoken from experience. Mb


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Originally Posted by Petro
I don't think it's that FL sizing is more accurate than Neck sizing, but rather that FL sizing isn't less accurate than Neck sizing and is generally more reliable for their type of shooting.


It’s mainly that FL sizing is more consistent shot to shot than neck sizing. Brass doesn’t always blow out exactly the same and the fact that these guys quite often use just enough neck tension to hold a bullet, then finish seating with bolt closure in other words a predictable jam, so it’s the feel of bolt closure.

Secondly I do wish people would realize that the guns they are using have absolutely nothing in common with a factory hunting rifle unles you go hunting with a 4000 dollar gun with a 3000 dollar scope on it. Sitting on top of a 1000 dollar rest. Special built for just one purpose. Tiny groups.

Hunting rifles I FL size always for feeding reliability. Varmint rifles get both NS for 4 firings FL to bump the shoulder plus anneal on the 5th because I don’t really care about reliability since most of my varmint rifles are single shot. AR get FL every time again for reliability reasons.
My bench guns got FL due to the reasons stated above in paragraph 1.

Do what you want for the situation and whatever works best for you. There isn’t a one size fits all here.



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Originally Posted by mathman
I routinely set garden variety FL dies to produce two or three thousandths shoulder setback. While this doesn't size the case as much as the die may be capable of doing, it does size the entirety of the case and so is full length sizing. It's just not full length sizing more than necessary.

I would contend that that it is proper full length sizing.

I generally try for no more than 1 thou set back on the shoulder, but then I have dedicated brass for every gun.

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Originally Posted by aalf
Originally Posted by mathman
I routinely set garden variety FL dies to produce two or three thousandths shoulder setback. While this doesn't size the case as much as the die may be capable of doing, it does size the entirety of the case and so is full length sizing. It's just not full length sizing more than necessary.

I would contend that that it is proper full length sizing.

I generally try for no more than 1 thou set back on the shoulder, but then I have dedicated brass for every gun.


Are you a short sighted fool? grin

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Agree that the 1-2 thousands bump was previously called partial sizing. From early on I avoided the full cam over bubba sizing.

As has already been pointed out sizing slightly every time produces better consistency and feeding. I also think the slight amount of brass working is better long term than neck sizing only and then doing a more major FL sizing every 5 shots or so. Also as oointed out previously hard to document a real difference between the two methods as far as hunting rifle accuracy. I think I am getting a real improvement in case life by treating the cases the same way each loading and annealing about every fourth or fifth time. I use a lee collet die and either a bump die or a FL die with the expander removed.

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Originally Posted by mathman
I routinely set garden variety FL dies to produce two or three thousandths shoulder setback. While this doesn't size the case as much as the die may be capable of doing, it does size the entirety of the case and so is full length sizing. It's just not full length sizing more than necessary.



I too try for about a .002 shoulder bump. If I am not too cheap and can find the dies I want, I like to get a full length bushing die so I can also control neck tension to suit my wants and needs.
I too have several years of reloading under my belt, but I am always looking to learn and change if a better way comes along.

Last edited by pullit; 03/02/21.

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Think everyone covered this topic very well. I size for the chambers I have to work with. That may mean setting my die up differently than every body else. If something works for you, it works.

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I would like a more detailed explanation of the FL sizing techniques being advocated, and a description of the equipment employed. I won't just swallow that advice and use plain-jane RCBS full-length sizing dies with full cam over. The brass they're using, and how they're prepping it might matter too.


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I'm a big fan of neck sizing, and I do run rifle specific brass. It makes supremely accurate hunting ammo. Brass seems to last longer, and you don't have to mess with the lube BS. My runout numbers decreased very nicely by neck sizing only. When brass does become a bit too snug, I'll bump shoulders back .002 but that usually doesn't happen until 4-5 loadings.


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Originally Posted by RiverRider
I would like a more detailed explanation of the FL sizing techniques being advocated, and a description of the equipment employed. I won't just swallow that advice and use plain-jane RCBS full-length sizing dies with full cam over. The brass they're using, and how they're prepping it might matter too.


Those videos are misleading. The guy behind them actually partial fl sizes, bumping his shoulders two or three thousandths. But he calls it fl sizing. And now an entire generation of millenial shooters is going around convinced that the only real way to reload is to fl size. I suspect quite a few of them may not realize the guy is only bumping his shoulders.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'm a big fan of neck sizing, and I do run rifle specific brass. It makes supremely accurate hunting ammo. Brass seems to last longer, and you don't have to mess with the lube BS. My runout numbers decreased very nicely by neck sizing only. When brass does become a bit too snug, I'll bump shoulders back .002 but that usually doesn't happen until 4-5 loadings.

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If you squeeze a case .002- .003 smaller at the web and dia. of the shoulder, bump the shoulder back .002 and reduce neck to .002 under bullet dia. why isn't that FL sizing.

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Neck size (per gun), turn bottlenecks, anneal, load x times, full size.

Repeat.


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Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
I've spent 50 years listening to.people argue this same question and have only a couple of things to say about it. If you only have 1 (one) gun chambered for said cartridge do whatever trips your trigger and gives you the results you want. If you have more than 1 (one) gun chambered for the same cartridge you are short sighted fool to resize them differently for each gun. Size them SO THEY WILL WORK IN ANY GUN OF THE SAME CHAMBERING you have. Murphy is hard at work when you are getting your stuff together for a hunt with lots of things on your mind and even worse if you are also organizing for a woman or kid also. Don't get ANAL ABOUT YOUR RELIABILITY of your ammo to function correctly every single time. You asked. I have spoken from experience. Mb


lol......

I've owned up to seven different 270's at the same time, each with their own brand/lot of brass, some with their own dedicated dies. I've never been able to get optimum accuracy when I tried to make them all dance to the same tune at the same time........

Like some of the others I make a distinction between FL vs PFLR. Despite owning plenty of LCD's I still PFLR for a few of my rifles.


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Originally Posted by sherm_61
If you squeeze a case .002- .003 smaller at the web and dia. of the shoulder, bump the shoulder back .002 and reduce neck to .002 under bullet dia. why isn't that FL sizing.

It is.

Years ago (read: decades) the notion of partial full length resizing was to back off a FLR die a few turns to only size the neck and not bump the shoulder back thereby approximating the function of a dedicated neck sizing die. The problem with this was that often the FLR die (backed off a turn or two) would still squeeze the base a bit and move the shoulder forward enough to make the round difficult to chamber. The looser your rifle's chamber, the worse the "problem" would be.

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