A man I knew was a Marine radioman on Wake. Captured with everyone else. He was sent ultimately to work a mine with other POW's near Nagasaki and the day after the bomb they were sent into Nagasaki to 'clean up'. He ultimately died of an odd nasopharyngeal tumor that the VA said was due to radiation from the bomb.
A few months earlier, we hit Tokyo with firebombs in a series of devastating raids to destroy their military industry. Unfortunately, they'd built their factories in residential areas so the civilian kill was extremely high. The big one was on March 9th. It was a coincidence of timing that made that one so bad. The Japs had highly flammable houses and fire was always a big risk. They'd developed a sophisticated fire defense program and had regular fire drills that mobilized entire sections of the city. They had one of those drills that evening. People were returning home from the drill when the alarms went off again. They ignored them thinking they were part of the drill they'd just completed. They were wrong and the American bombers came in. None of their planned defenses were put into play because they were totally unready for the attack. The series of bombing raids over Tokyo eventually killed about 100k people, more than either of the atomic bombs. After months of firebombing raids, the Jap military still wouldn't give up so the A-bombs were necessary to hammer them to the ground.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
My uncle was a P.O.W. of the Japanese....after reading and hearing about the treatment the POWs received I haven't felt a twinge of compassion for those who died under Fat Man and Little Boy.
My uncle was too, in Hong Kong. The Japanese interned near 2,000 Canadians, around 800 came home, I don't feel sorry for the enemy.
Those bombs killed a whole whole whole lot of Innocent people
Women, children, elderly people who did nothing wrong. And killed people from radiation induced cancer and illnesses for years after.
Those bombs though, saved more lives than could be imagined by helping to end the war. I read once that people stopped and looked at the devastation caused by those bombs, and began to realize how brutal war was. They took blinders off after that. I forget the exact number, but it was the largest loss of human life in less than 5 or 7 seconds I believe. Crazy isn’t it
What's crazy is your idea that innocents were killed in either attack. Every person in Japan was, by then, contributing to the failing war effort, and was prepared to die, fighting hand to hand to the last one. Innocent? You're a fool...
Just remember that those two bombs are probably the best thing that ever happened to Japan. By ending the war, we saved Japan from Gen Curtis LeMay. That boy was just hitting his stride and he and his stats wonks were constantly making their raids more efficient-- more devastation per gallon of fuel, ton of bomb load, etc. By Hiroshima, he'd managed to inflict 60% damage on the top 60 cities in Japan. For comparison, in the US, that would be every city larger than Omaha. This was a man who really enjoyed his work. He was a good friend of my Grandpa. I wouldn't have wanted to get on either of their bad sides.
One other little bit of trivia about Nagasaki:
From Wikipedia:
Quote
After takeoff from Tinian, Bockscar reached its rendezvous point and after circling for an extended period, found The Great Artiste, but not The Big Stink.[4] Climbing to 30,000 feet, the assigned rendezvous altitude, both aircraft slowly circled Yakushima Island. Though Sweeney had been ordered not to wait at the rendezvous for the other aircraft longer than fifteen minutes before proceeding to the primary target, Sweeney continued to wait for The Big Stink, perhaps at the urging of Commander Frederick Ashworth, the plane's weaponeer.[5] After exceeding the original rendezvous time limit by a half-hour, Bockscar, accompanied by The Great Artiste, proceeded to the primary target, Kokura.[6] No fewer than three bomb runs were made, but the delay at the rendezvous had resulted in 7/10ths cloud cover over the primary target, and the bombardier was unable to drop.[7] By the time of the third bomb run, Japanese antiaircraft fire was getting close, and Japanese fighter planes could be seen climbing to intercept Bockscar.[8]
Poor bombing visibility and an increasingly critical fuel shortage eventually forced Bockscar to divert from Kokura and attack the secondary target, Nagasaki.[9] As they approached Nagasaki, the heart of the city's downtown was covered by dense cloud, and Sweeney and the plane's weaponeer, Commander Ashworth, initially decided to bomb Nagasaki using radar.[10] However, a small opening in the clouds allowed Bockscar's bombardier to verify the target as Nagasaki. As the crew had been ordered to drop the bomb visually if possible, Sweeney decided to proceed with a visual bomb run.[11] Bockscar then dropped Fat Man, with a blast yield equivalent to 21 kilotons of TNT. It exploded 43 seconds later at 1,539 feet (469 meters) above the ground, at least 1.6 miles (2.5 kilometers) northwest of the planned aim point.[12][13] The failure to drop Fat Man at the precise bomb aim point caused the atomic blast to be confined to the Urakami Valley. As a consequence, a major portion of the city was protected by the intervening hills, and only 60% of Nagasaki was destroyed. The bombing also severed the Mitsubishi arms production extensively and killed an estimated 35,000–40,000 people outright, including 23,200–28,200 Japanese industrial workers, 2,000 Korean slave laborers, and 150 Japanese soldiers.[14]
Low on fuel, Bockscar barely made it to the runway on Okinawa. With only enough fuel for one landing attempt, Sweeney brought Bockscar in fast and hard, ordering every available distress flare on board to be fired as he did so.[15] The number two engine died from fuel starvation as Bockscar began its final approach.[16] Touching the runway hard, the heavy B-29 slewed left and towards a row of parked B-24 bombers before the pilots managed to regain control.[16] With both pilots standing on the brakes, Sweeney made a swerving 90-degree turn at the end of the runway to avoid going over the cliff into the ocean.[17] 2nd Lt. Jacob Beser recalled that at this point, two engines had died from fuel exhaustion, while "the centrifugal force resulting from the turn was almost enough to put us through the side of the airplane."[18]
After Bockscar returned to Tinian, Col. Tibbets recorded that he was faced with the dilemma of considering “if any action should be taken against the airplane commander, Charles Sweeney, for failure to command.”[19][20][21] After meeting on Guam with Col. Tibbets and Major Sweeney, General Curtis LeMay, chief of staff for the Strategic Air Forces, confronted Sweeney, stating "You [bleep] up, didn't you, Chuck?", to which Sweeney made no reply.[22] LeMay then turned to Tibbets and told him that an investigation into Sweeney's conduct of the mission would serve no useful purpose.[22]
The way I heard it had some of the sugar coating removed. LeMay was going to crucify Sweeney-- court martial him. However someone told Old Iron Pants it might not be a good idea to skewer the guy who might have just won the war. The matter was dropped. Most accounts of the mission whitewash what a fustercluck it really was.
Those bombs killed a whole whole whole lot of Innocent people
Women, children, elderly people who did nothing wrong. And killed people from radiation induced cancer and illnesses for years after.
Those bombs though, saved more lives than could be imagined by helping to end the war. I read once that people stopped and looked at the devastation caused by those bombs, and began to realize how brutal war was. They took blinders off after that. I forget the exact number, but it was the largest loss of human life in less than 5 or 7 seconds I believe. Crazy isn’t it
What's crazy is your idea that innocents were killed in either attack. Every person in Japan was, by then, contributing to the failing war effort, and was prepared to die, fighting hand to hand to the last one. Innocent? You're a fool...
GFY
If you think by insulting me your somehow making yourself seem intelligent, or more informed on the subject of innocence, you would be incorrect. You could have intelligently disagreed with me, but you chose not to.
So every woman, child, and elderly person was guilty and deserved that death? Simple answer no.
Innocent lives lost to prevent further catastrophe and major loss of life. Ugly thing, but ultimately necessary. Not doubting that it was the best decision.
It's just a matter of time before they are used again. The introduction of nuclear weapons has suppressed the large nation state wars. All the wars since WW2 have been proxy wars. The time is coming and hell will be unleashed.
My uncle was a P.O.W. of the Japanese....after reading and hearing about the treatment the POWs received I haven't felt a twinge of compassion for those who died under Fat Man and Little Boy.
One of my former bosses was a survivor of the Bataan Death March. A kind and spiritual man, but didn't have anything good to say about his captors.
Principal at our local elementary school ( Cecil Sims ) was the same survivor -a very nice and kind - soft spoken - man - but hated the Japanese. But as my Dad ( also a WWII Marine wounded on Iwo Jima ) said, Cecil was not to be trifled with.
