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Originally Posted by BWalker
Hunting in the west has greatly changed in the last few decades. I dont think 10% is out of line at all. In my home state I dont think NR should have a a crack at limited entry tags like sheep,moose, goat, etc at all.


MT is your home state? For how long? Seems like the location in your avatar used to say MI? So you move to MT from MI and suddenly your an expert on how MT has changed over the last few decades?


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Originally Posted by Kenneth
Originally Posted by Fotis
It's dead for now.


Thanks for the info.
It's far from dead. The votes just kicked the bill to the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force.

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Originally Posted by pointer
Originally Posted by Kenneth
Originally Posted by Fotis
It's dead for now.


Thanks for the info.
It's far from dead. The votes just kicked the bill to the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force.




Link?


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Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by BWalker
Hunting in the west has greatly changed in the last few decades. I dont think 10% is out of line at all. In my home state I dont think NR should have a a crack at limited entry tags like sheep,moose, goat, etc at all.


MT is your home state? For how long? Seems like the location in your avatar used to say MI? So you move to MT from MI and suddenly your an expert on how MT has changed over the last few decades?

I've hunted MT since 1991. Are you saying its stayed the same?

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It will probably rise again and again until it finally passes. We need to support the Outfitters, as they are they main opposition organization that the legislators will listen to.

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Originally Posted by Kenneth
Originally Posted by BWalker
In my home state I dont think NR should have a a crack at limited entry tags like sheep,moose, goat, etc at all.



YGTFKM.

You're statement regarding your fellow outdoor enthusiasts is so judgmental that I'm almost at a loss for words.

Everyone is a non-resident in most places we go, To imply that residents are that superior to nonresidents, to deny a fellow sportsmen the dream of possibly pulling a sheep tag once in his entire life........

You are not one of my peers, we clearly do not think alike,

I'm ashamed of your self-righteousness.










Sorry man but wildlife in any state should be managed for the benefit of it's residents as they are the ones said wildlife is held in trust for. No one is stating that residents are "superior" to NR.
Get off your high horse.
As residents our wildlife should be manages for us not you. Hunting as a NR is a privilege not a right. Consider yourself lucky as a NR that Wyoming even offers you sheep or moose licenses. How about we just allow NR to hunt in Wyoming the same species that we can hunt in your state? Sounds fair to me.
I do not expect the same hunting opportunities in other states as I do in my home state. Your entitlement is laughable.
Advocating for increases resident opportunities is not stating that we are superior to NR.

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Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by BWalker
Hunting in the west has greatly changed in the last few decades. I dont think 10% is out of line at all. In my home state I dont think NR should have a a crack at limited entry tags like sheep,moose, goat, etc at all.


MT is your home state? For how long? Seems like the location in your avatar used to say MI? So you move to MT from MI and suddenly your an expert on how MT has changed over the last few decades?

I've hunted MT since 1991. Are you saying its stayed the same?


How long has MT been your "home state"?


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That bill is idiocy personified. $1100. for an elk tag and $655. for a deer tag! Retards. Have never been all that impressed with WYG&F and can see very little positive they do for the game populations. Think about it what are they spending all that money on?


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A preface to statements that follow: I live in a small Podunk “City” in east Tennessee. That doesn’t mean anything till you look where it is – right next to the Smoky Mountains – National Park, the most visited national park in the country. I spend 60-70-80 days or parts of days every year in the Smokys. I’m used to lots of visitors in my town, anywhere I go, hiking in the Smokys, fishing in streams/creeks, every where........

I have 2 issues with the WY, and MT, initiatives.
1. By raising the price of an elk tag another $300, and talk of making tags $2000 mentioned in this thread, a point will be reached where guys like me will say forget it. I’m not paying $2000 for an elk tag. I’ve swallowed hard and forked over $12/1300 for 2 WY NR “Special” elk tags in the past 5-6 years. The MT initiative is even worse. The MOGA wanted 60%, later revised to 39% (I think) of all tags to go to MOGA constituents. This is great business for MOGA and their clients. Basically, rich dudes get to hunt elk every year by going with an outfitter, the rest of us get the privilege to pull a tag once every 5 years or so. And we get to pay a higher fee for that privilege. My point: hunting out west is becoming a rich man’s sport. Joe Blue Collar won’t be hunting. A point for later reference – there are more Joe Blue Collar guys than rich dudes.
2. My second issue is related to the first – can the people proposing these issues see the divide it is creating? Each state can do what they wish in their state, and the people of that state can do as they wish with their wildlife. I got no issue with that. What wraps me around the axle is folks posing a self-centered view to further their own chances, experience, or whatever motivates them to vehemently support these initiatives.

I raise these two points to set up a 50,000 foot view of these issues. With hunter numbers declining, maybe not in your neighborhood/area/state, why do we want mechanisms to further limit our numbers? Secondly, I don’t see how a state can justify reducing the number of NR hunters in times of budget issues. Wyoming comes to mind here. I receive the “Cowboy State Daily” in my email box every day about 11 AM. I love WY, vacation there every year and will likely move there when I retire. In theory, I should shut up and seek self-interest because I plan to be a resident and I’ll have more tags to myself in 3-4-5 years.

Maybe not so coincidentally, here a link to one of the top story’s today: UW Analysis: Wyoming Could Lose $12.9B From Energy Moratorium. Economic math is a funny thing, and clearly related to statistics – I can make it say anything I want. Its not a secret that the new administration is going to develop policies and/or Regs that will hurt the economy of Wyoming. I’m very well aware of the coal situation in WY – down something like 10% in the past 2 years with a slew of legal issues surrounding several operators in the Power River Basin. It isn’t going to get better.

Back to my preface: in TN I enjoy a 0% state income tax. Likely not again so coincidentally, in the Cowboy today, I see one of WY legislators have proposed a 4% state income tax (I believe they have zero now). WY obviously has a budget issue, either now or on the horizon. I put up with the tourists (i.e. NR) in the Smokys, in every friggin’ town/city/village, on the rivers, steams in the Smokys trying to catch an 8 inch trout for one reason – they keep my property taxes low and state income taxes to 0. I have figured out areas to go with close to zero people, maybe a local or two. I guarantee it works the same way with residents in hunting spots. Why put a hit on your local and state economy because you want more tags to yourself, or MOGA in MT?

Next, if we price out people like me, and most other DIY guys, that leaves fewer hunters - recall there is more Joe Blue Collar, than rich dudes. I can't help but see hunter numbers declining. I think the current number is 5% of US residents over 16 are hunters. Do we really want to start putting up road blocks to new hunters?

At 57, I could foresee a future of no or very restricted hunting opportunities. Sounds like a situation we fled in the 1700’s………………

Last edited by bwinters; 03/05/21.

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Man I wish Colorado would do this! Sucks living in a state that caters to non-residents!

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I only have this fall to base it on, but I don't see hunter numbers dropping. The Big Horns, and plains where I pronghorn hunt were VERY full with LOTS of out of state plates. Will price increase drive some out? Yup, it will. Will it drive out enough to actually make a difference to things like hotels, restaurants etc. that THRIVE on non-resident traffic where I live. Nope, most likely nothing there will change. All local hotels where FULL from Oct 1 through part of November, local restaurants where noticeably more crowded, even with C19 restrictions. Traffic in/out of the Big Horns was high and pretty much every where you could put a camper had a camper. Even into November elk hunting about 1/2 the trucks I saw driving in for hunting was out of state (including the one who pulled me out of snow!)

Non-residents supply a TON of money to local communities, so I am not in favor of cutting them off. But yes, residents should get most tags.

I've heard this bill was killed, but there are others to try and help:

- raising the stamp price and dedicating that money to purchasing easements to cross private land to get to public
- adding 1 cent to the 6% tax

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IMO, there are 2 entities that profit via non-resident hunters. G&F dept's and G/O's, and that's it.

G&F dept's profit via increased license fees. G/O's profit obviously via guiding/outfitting clients. Everything else is a wash. G&F as well as G/O's won't want you to hear or believe that though.

My rationale:

A NR is going to give you MAYBE 1wk worth of revenue. Restaurant, fuel, hotel, groceries, etc. A resident hunter gives you an entire season.

Non-resident hunters are a renewable resource. Someone new is added to a group, a patriarch takes a group on a "lifetime hunt". Somone graduates college and gets a job, or someone retires and finally has the time and $$ to go hunt out of state. Resident hunters once they sell their stuff, or at least decide they're done, they're done. When decide hunting is no longer worth it and they're done, the folks who sell fuel, hotels, food, etc have lost weekly revenue from ~9/1-12/31. Even longer if the hunter gives up scouting trips and winter predator hunting.

I know an awful lot of folks who were lifetime hunting dog owners that have not replaced dogs because what little habitat we have left is leased primarily to NR's coming to hunt birds/waterfowl for a few days.


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If hunting elk and other critters is that important to you, then move to where you can hunt them as a resident. Or pay the piper, to the tune of whatever the folks who LIVE THERE decide the price point is. It's really that simple. It'd be neat if I could get an over the counter bull elk tag for PA, or KY for a c-note. Maybe I should start whining?


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Originally Posted by rickt300
That bill is idiocy personified. $1100. for an elk tag and $655. for a deer tag! Retards. Have never been all that impressed with WYG&F and can see very little positive they do for the game populations. Think about it what are they spending all that money on?


Yeah they are so bad everyone is up un arms over a fee increase. They spend the money on game management that's why the hunting is great in Wyoming.
Prices, although I don't support that large of an increase , are on par with other states.

How much would it cost you to shoot a high fence elk in Texas ? I bet way more than $1100 to get behind that high fence or even better yet out West Texas. I bet a trophy hunt out there would set you back 7x $1100 or more.
$1100 in Wyoming could get you a trophy elk if you know how to DIY.

WG&F is highly respected for their game management, you're showing your ignorance with that statement.

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Originally Posted by rickt300
That bill is idiocy personified. $1100. for an elk tag and $655. for a deer tag! Retards. Have never been all that impressed with WYG&F and can see very little positive they do for the game populations. Think about it what are they spending all that money on?


Don’t apply then. No one is forcing you to. WY G&F do a pretty darn good job managing their resources and have some great people working for them.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
Man I wish Colorado would do this! Sucks living in a state that caters to non-residents!



Again, Another one, LMAO!

'Cub, you've lived in how many different states?

And so now at this present time, you "qualify" has a Colorado resident.

And look at you perched on your stump decrying others who may travel to hunt,

Because you're a "resident" for 12 months...

Can't make this stuff up.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
Man I wish Colorado would do this! Sucks living in a state that caters to non-residents!


And please, tell us how Colorado caters to non-residents.

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Out of curiosity, how do you think states should handle NR’s.

Originally Posted by Kenneth
Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
Man I wish Colorado would do this! Sucks living in a state that caters to non-residents!



Again, Another one, LMAO!

'Cub, you've lived in how many different states?

And so now at this present time, you "qualify" has a Colorado resident.

And look at you perched on your stump decrying others who may travel to hunt,

Because you're a "resident" for 12 months...

Can't make this stuff up.

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First, I laugh at the people who jump from state to state and then declare themselves, Residents with all the Privileges,

Suddenly it's "their" Wildlife....uh-huh.

And that Wildlife is on Public, Federal lands...

And I laugh when people think hunting has only changed in their state, but not mine or yours.

Same ole crap, Residents vs Non.

Regarding how states should handle it,

No perfect answer for everyone which is why you see so many different methods/systems throughout the states.

Regarding Sheep and WY, if the draw went to 10% rather than the current and somewhat questionable 25%, That would effectively end Sheep and Moose for 99.5% of the Non-resident population.

After 19 years of apps and fees, I do not like this proposal,

I'm willing to bet you can empathize with that.

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most states stick it to the NR, my state is no exception. I just play by their rules if I want to hunt there. Wyoming is extremely fair to the NR imo. As their population increases change is inevitable. Also it’s my opinion that WYF&G does a good job, every time ive hunted Wyoming I’ve had a good hunt with quality critters.

That said the self righteous resident that thinks there should be no NR tags I just consider the source. It’s usually from a transplant that couldn’t hunt their way out of a paper sack to begin with, so it’s the NR fault they suck. Prove me wrong

Last edited by rosco1; 03/05/21.
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