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That's unbelievable. I wonder how there hasn't been a bigger gov't effort to subsidize their elimination. Not only invasive but also a health hazard.

Are you bs me? You would be messing with the r&r of half the Texans on the fire never mind the ones making money off them. The gov't we got imports 2 legged feral swine to cause problems they sure not going to worry about 4 legged ones.

Asnoted earlier, I did some Internet searching and what I found was a 10% rate of brucellosis. In one of my posts on this thread I asked hanco about the 30% rate, and whether it was local, but he didn't respond.

I also noted that a LOT of wild game, not just pigs, can be infected by various diseases potentially harmful to humans, yet with proper handlingf and cooking it ain't a big deal.

Might also point out that while Texas continues to be overrun with feral pigs, more than any other state/region in the U.S., one POSSIBLE reason might be that almost all landowners continue to use corn feeders (sometimes called the Texas state flower)--and higher nutrition tends to result in higher survival and reproduction of pigs. We have hunted feral pigs in several states, and have yet to encounter the population density of Texas.

Might also point out that Montana (where I live) has been worried about brucellosis for decades, because of its presence in Yellowstone Park bison, which in most winters migrate to lower elevations outside the park, where they can mix with cattle, and theoretically infect them. Brucellosis causes cattle to about calves, which is why it's a big deal for Montana cattle to be certified brucellosis free.

Despite all that, there has yet to be a proven instance of YP bison transmitting brucellosis to domestic cattle. And despite quite a few Yellowstone elk carrying brucellosis, there's never been big outcry when they migrate out of the Park, even before wolves reduced the population considerably, perhaps because hunting and outfitting during the annual out-of-the-park elk migration was just as important a local industry as cattle ranching--and maybe more so.

Do know one guy, a Florida outfitter/guide friend, who got brucellosis from a wild pig. He said it was not fun, but he never took any precautions about becoming infected, such as wearing rubber gloves when field-dressing/butchering them. Now he does.

Eileen and I have brought back a lot of wild pork from our hunts, not just from Texas but nine others states. This is partly because Eileen's primary job is writing game cookbooks--and a BUNCH of her fans ask for recipes for wild pork. So we always bring back at least some from our hunts in Texas (and other states), though we mostly keep younger pigs and sows. She always includes feral pig recipes in her big game cookbooks, for everything from piglets on up--because so many people DO eat them.

That's about it for now.

That's pretty interesting, Mule Deer. I had heard about the Bison before but it must have escaped my mind earlier. I guess the handling of such issues is just different in different places. Heh, you show some of my hunting colleagues here a slightly enlarged spleen and you'll see them running for their lives. Game meat hygene is written with a capital G here (even when not needed) and we even have dedicated places to get our boar meat checked for trichinosis. You might have heard of this African Swine Flu thing that's starting to be a problem here and everyone is running rampant about it. But yes, feeding will definetely make populations explode. Over here where the boars mainly occupy oak and beech forests you can really see the correlation between a good year for the trees and a population spike in the boars. In a lot of places in Germany you actually have to take care that your deer feeder is inaccessible to boars. And at least we have had pretty cold winters in the past which also make up a big percentage of boar mortality. Can't imagine how bad it is when they breed twice a year and have mild winters.

Boomer454,

Thanks for your comments. Haven't hunted boar in Germany, but did in the Czech Republic almost 30 years ago, which is another story--that does not involve feeders.

Would appreciate some more info/links on the African swine flu.

John

Sorry, I missed that. I read the 30% someplace, but just googled it, 10% is what I’ve found too, but it can be higher in the eastern part of the state. A hunter best wear gloves, cook it properly. I don’t touch them without gloves. It said they can carry 24 different diseases. That’s enough to make me shy away from eating it.

Hanco,

Thanks for your response.

Am not surprised the rate can be higher in East Texas. Have hunted them there as well, and it's definitely a much moister climate, which can result in a higher rate of infection.

But would also re-mention that far more animals (including not just wild game but domestic animals) can carry far more diseases than we want to hear about!

John

Since this thread actually asked about pig guns/bullets before we got off topic, I suppose I should add those 9 I shot the other night were killed with an AR in 6.5 Grendel, 16" barrel, Silencerco Omega, Pulsar Thermion XQ50, shooting a 95 VMAX at 2620 fps. Sows and piglet were mostly in the 50-100 yard range, boar was out around 150.

There may be folks take issue with the 95 VMAX bullet choice. Yes, the VMAX is designed as a varmint bullet, but generally at speeds 400-600 fps faster than what I am shooting it. We all know that impact velocity is a huge part of terminal ballistics and how a bullet performs. At an impact velocity of 2400-2500 fps it does pretty good on pigs. Yes, it does open fast, but it does not totally explode or splash. On any given night I shoot mixed bag coyotes and pigs. At the lower velocities I am shooting the heavier bullets just don't open fast enough for quick kills on coyotes. I need something that kills both species effectively. The 95 VMAX does that.

Another factor I always have to consider is collateral damage. Stalking and shooting up sounders of pigs at night is very dynamic shooting. Large numbers of running pigs (with consequent numbers of missed shots), constantly changing shooting angles, fields of fire, all that business. Pigs are also where you find them. There is always pivots, farm equipment, cattle, barns, all kinds of things randomly scattered about that you don't want to shoot. Trigger discipline is very important, but some of these things may be concealed behind tree lines, obscured by brush, just over a hill out of sight. I really, really do not like bullets that bounce bad when shooting at night. The 120 Gold Dot is an excellent pig bullet. But a miss with one of them on hard ground often lets you hear the bullet go whizzing off into the unknown. I much prefer a more frangible bullet impacting into plowed ground to minimize any potential stray rounds.

I have tried a lot of bullets in the Grendel. Most work pretty well, they all have their own characteristics. Sometimes different shooting styles call for some out of the box answers though.

I shoot with guys who run AR-10's in 308, AR-15's in 556, 6.5, 6.8, 300 BO, and other who run bolt guns in various chamberings. They all work. Different shooters have different styles and need to work with what is comfortable to them. They need to shoot something they can shoot well, and place bullets in the right spot with. Where you shoot a pig matters too. CNS shooters vs body shooters, one shot static targets vs running shots, general pig shooting vs hunting trophy boar.

I will also say that IMO more pigs run off from bullets that don't open fast enough (like fmj or really thick jacketed bullets) than they do from bullets that open too fast. The exception to that statement would be in 556. In 556 a mid-weight to heavy bullet, with a moderate rate of expansion, is just the ticket. Varmint bullets at 556 speeds can give some spectacular kills with good bullet placement but are not a great choice when shooting running pigs, where shot placement can be iffy.

Sorry for rambling around quite a lot but these are just some of my thoughts on the subject.

JTPinTSX,

Thanks for your thoughts on pig bullets for the 6.5 Grendel. I recently bought one (a bolt gun) and have been collecting info--and bullets--to test it for an upcoming magazine article, and will probably hunt some with it this fall. Probably not pigs--though something might come up between now and then--but probably for whitetails, as we have a bunch of 'em in Montana, and in some areas they need some thinning out.

What powder do you use in your loads?

I have been using Benchmark because I have a lot of it. I shoot it in two Grendel uppers, plus my 556 that I do lots of training with. It works pretty good for me, especially with lighter bullets. There may be other better powders for sure though depending on what you are doing.

8208 XBR seems to be the darling for the Grendel world if you dig around forums and FB groups but I have not used any yet. I have some to try in my sons Grendel but haven't got around to it. TAC is commonly used, W748 gives good speeds, probably CFE 223 and H335 are contenders as well.

Of course preferred powder is predicated on barrel length and bullet weight. I am shooting light bullets in a fairly short barrel, a good candidate for Benchmark. Heavies in a 22"-24" barrel I would go on the slower end. The LR Grendel shooters seem to prefer the 8208 XBR.

If I were shooting deer at 200 yards and less I think the bullets I would look at first would be the 120 Gold Dot, 100 or 120 NBT, or a 120 Sierra. I have also had pretty good luck with the 100 ELDM on pigs, though they are a little hard for coyotes.

Here is a 120 Gold Dot I shot point blank into moist ground. Impact velocity of around 2200 fps. I haven't got around to weighing it yet but you can see it is mostly all there, good expansion, good lead/jacket bonding. It I were shooting something big and tough with a Grendel this would be my bullet. One thing to be aware of though is that the jacket is not a regular cup and core, it is like a very thick plating. The material is a little grabby, I had to coat the inside of the necks with moly for smooth bullet seating. Also pressures top out quite a bit quicker with this bullet than some others (if you dig around on the net you can find multiple references to it, same as I experienced) and my top velocities were 150-200 fps slower out of that short barrel. With a long barrel and powder testing a guy might do better though.

Thanks again.

I've already done a search of about all available data, and found 8208 to be commonly listed as getting good results. Have some of it and Benchmark, and will give them both a try in the 24" barrel.

Have some other powders on a variety of 6.5 bullets from 85 grains on up to try, including Shooter's World TacRifle, which looks like it might be good with heavier bullets.

Yep, Speer makes Gold Dots by electro-plating. It's a pretty effective way to make bullets that hold together, but they can be a little "grabby!

No problem. I weighed that Gold Dot and it was 97 grains. So 81% retained weight into what I generally consider a pretty tough medium. Dirt ain't scientific by any stretch of the imagination, but it is tougher on bullets than wet newsprint or gel.

The 90 TNT has been very accurate in both my Grendel uppers, they are both 8 twist. 90 TNT you have to be careful on seat depth because of the long ogive. Seat too deep and you don't have a good place to crimp. Too far out and not enough bullet in the case (and maybe a mag length restriction in the AR? don't remember for sure on that). Kind of a narrow window. What worked well for me and several others I talked to was an OAL of about 2.200" if I recall correctly. Bolt gun sure may be different though. I had some 123 Sierra HPBT that were very accurate but I never shot any game with them. The 95 VMAX has been an accurate bullet for me as well. The 123 SST were finicky getting to shoot well.

I have looked at that Shooters World TacRifle. If I could find some anywhere I would like to try it.

Am pretty lucky about powder "selection," as many companies send me samples, so get to try a lot of 'em. But if one works really well, thse days it's often hard to find more.

Have been tempted to buy a 6.5 G upper, especially since they show up on the Campfire Classifieds from time to time, but so far haven't.

Shot a hog once around 80 yards distant with a .257 Bobby. Handload 90 gr Sierra BTHP. KInda inflated her a little and she collapsed in a pile of pork. Funny thing is I've had the same experience with CB Shorts on occasion. Is all very confusing, and no, I don't handload CB shorts.

Dan,

As I've mentioned here and there before, the longer I hunt the less difference I see in the "killing power" of various cartridges, as long as the bullet lands in the right place and penetrates sufficiently.

I thought a hunter needed a 7 mag or better until I hunted with grandkids using 223’s or 243’s with good bullets. They were killing the same deer and pigs I was. They didn’t run any farther. They were just as dead as mine. I really think a 223 with a 62 Barnes or a 62 Bear Claw is perfect for pigs. They will punch through both shoulders of a 200 lb pig at 200 yards and keep going. You get fast follow up shots with an AR.


Thank you John for taking the time to chat with all of us!!!!

You're welcome--but it's my pleasure!

We eat’em - young ones mostly.

Lost count this year somewhere in the 50’s - suspect we whacked 100+.

If I remember correctly we’ve used a compound, a crossbow, 12ga #6 turkey loads, 223, 243, 260, 250-3000, 308, 300H&H, 338 Fed, 7mm STW, 45LC, 45ACP, 44 mag and 9mm. They don’t seem to know much difference, stick a bullet in the boiler room and they die.

Biggest boar was killed with a 223 - good old Texas heart shot slowed him down and the neck shot killed him. Most dramatic was 45LC at about 15 paces.....shot the 308 to empty and a big sounder in thick Blackjack oaks was running everywhere. Large sow went running by and I plugged her with the blackhawk. Not quite hollywood action but she plowed some ground with that snout.

Interesting that sometimes they shrug off a big bullet, I’ve had them hit the ground with an arrow behind the shoulder and tracked one that a boy hit solid in the kill zone with a 308. Confounding critters.

I’ve killed a bunch with a bow at 250 FPS, none went any more than 50 yards, many less. It’s where you hit them that counts.

Went two more times this weekend. 7 Saturday night, 8 last night. Makes for 24 confirmed the last 4 days. I'm sure the real number is closer to 30. 6.5 Grendel and 95 VMAX keeps doing work.