Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Help me understand 308 Cal 180gr versus 358 Cal 180gr

Loving the 358 Winchester, I try to read and research available load data. I see a lot of guys mention 180gr load data. I like slow fat bullets, so I try to keep my load components from 200gr to 225gr.

What benefit does one caliber have over another if everything else is equal except diameter. If velocity is the same and the game is inside 300yds, why use the bigger diameter bullet of the same weight?

I hope that makes sense.

Sectional density gives a slight nod on penetration to the longer, smaller diameter bullet of the same weight if velocity is the same. Inside of 300 yards on deer it’s just academic.

Given the same initial velocity and the same bullet construction (solids will definitely prevail in testing this theory) the smaller diameter will out penetrate the bigger diameter, given the same weight for both.
Additionally the greater the SD the better the BC....again all other things being equal.

The longer smaller caliber bullet given the same weight and initial velocity will also obviously be more aerodynamic and maintain its velocity better as well as buck wind. At closer ranges the trajectory may or may not matter the wind deflection probably won’t be enough to matter at all.

Okay, with that knowledge, why use a 180gr in the 358 Winchester?

I know it's not a long range round, the reason I use the 200gr and 225gr bullets the most, it hits like a hammer.

Cause it works really well, accurate as hell, probably less wear and tear on an old 99.

And all that goes out the window if you use a 180 TSX (for example)

At the same weight and same initial velocity the .358 will have less recoil (something something , over my head about expansion ratio). And the bigger hole delivers bigger smack.

The energy produced by a 358 is going to be very similar regardless if you’re shooting 180s or 225s. The 358 is going to transfer that energy with more authority in my opinion than a 308 due to the larger surface area of the bullet. Also, the 358 will shoot a 180, or any bullet of the same weight, faster than a 308. So, with bullets of the same weight, while the 308 may pull ahead at longer range, the 358 is going to carry more up close.

Why shoot a 180 in a 35? Maybe your rifle likes it? Maybe tthat’s all you have? Maybe even less recoil? You won’t know until you try.

Well, dammit, I need to rethink this whole bigger fatter hangup I have

Given that the 358 is a relatively close range cartridge compared to many others, I think the defining factor in my bullet selection would be my likelihood of bumping into something big and dangerous. That’s when I would probably opt for a heavier bullet looking for reliable deep penetration.

I knew guys that liked fat ones!

I started out life as a 30-06/180grainer snob. It's not that I knew all that much about things; I just thought it worked for me. Therefore, it must be the best.

After about 20 years, I tried 165 grainers, and they worked better with less recoil.

Then, for reasons not fully describable, I went to 35 Whelen/200 grain. I downloaded it considerably so the round was more like a hot 358 WIN. I spent a decade dropping deer with that rig until I decided to go back to 30-06. The reason was that I was giving my shoulder a considerable pounding and it was not killing the deer any better.

I kept the Whelenizer out of the line-up for 7 years, and I'm currently playing with 180 grainers in the hopes of getting the rifle back in the rotation.

Having gone through all that, I really can't say my foray into 35 cal did anything more than scratch an itch. I'm perfectly happy with 30-somethings, and I'm now contemplating switching to 150 grain 30-06 over 165 grain.

35s deserve a 200+ grain bullet!

With the same amount of powder and pressure, given two bullets of identical weight, the larger diameter bullet will have a higher velocity.

The only thing dangerous around here is the occasional big hog and rattlesnakes or cottonmouths

Working definition of Sectional Density right there!

I've shot 3006 and 308 for a long while.


Now 35 Whelen and 358win. All whitetails under 100yds.


At the end of the day they all kill deer. Honestly probably about the same. But I like the 35s. I do believe they hit with a noticeable authority.


Testing the 358 with a 180gr ttsx next. I think it aughta make for a very deadly round. Seems the faster you push a ttsx the more violent they are. I'm an odd ball. I want as much violence and damage as possible but still want deep penetration. Accubonds have been good...I think they may be too long for my 358 though.

Be Well, RZ.

Just wondering, where do you guys get that the 358 Winchester is a short range round??? RZ.