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I honestly don't know what group size my rifle can shoot. I very rarely shoot from a bench. I much prefer to practice from the real world positions I find while hunting. I do know that my mod. 99 300 Savage w/ peep right is good to about 200 yards from kneeling or standing if I can outmoded arm against a tree , half this if true decomposition offhand. My 270 could do 300 from prone( never have shot that far at BY but some woodchucks occasionaly). Nothing against anyone who chases small groups, but it is not my thing.

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Think it depends on what I'm shooting, what I'm shooting it with and how far out there they be. Shot a lot of many-hole groups in my day with scatterguns, but they kill stuff easy enough. Minute of squirrel brain works and bunny brains are a bit larger.

My Win 94 has never been terribly precise on paper, somewhere around 2-3 MOA I'd guess, but it's never not put deer and hogs on the ground in the settings I hunt in. Little .22 CB short plinker is minute of dead pig within the ranges I use it. One hole groups? Yeah, out to about 25 yards. Some of my other guns would shoot one hole groups or close to it out at 100 yards, hope they work as well for the new owners.

After a second cup of Joe I usually shoot better than doing it cold turkey.

And if you shoot enough rounds at a target sooner or later you'll find a couple of independent thinkers in the mob.
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Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Originally Posted by JimH
For deer/coyote 5/8"-3/4" at 100 yards,and nail a 4" steel gong at 300.I have several guns that shoot way better,but not really needed for the ranges I shoot.I have 10-12 really accurate cf rifles from 6x45 and 6- 250 imp. to 6.5 Creedmoor,but always end up using my 336 A Marlin 30-30 to deer hunt.Guy on the rimfire page has a 10/22 he head shoots tree squirrels at 200 yards consistently-way out of my league!


Headshooting squirrels at 200 with a 10-22. I'll call BS on that, Well maybe 1 out of 20.

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Only accurate rifles interest me.

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Originally Posted by geedubya
Seems somewhere, on more than one occasion I've heard the remark from a fellow that declares his over-the-counter Remchester will shoot 1 hole groups all day long.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I've owned quite a few production and semi-custom rifles as well as a few full custom's that others had commissioned and then sent down the road. I know, in my old age, that I do not seem to have the ability to concentrate that I did when I was younger.

Having said that, in the last 30 years that I have been reloading for hunting, using rifles described above to kill stuff, and developing loads for that purpose, I've found that for me, one hole groups at any time are an anomaly, much less all day long?

What is your expectation/experience in that regard, and what do you consider acceptable accuracy for hunting, say 300 yds. and under??

Asking for me, not a friend.

Quien Sabe?

GWB



There's a few guys like this at my club. They throw their targets away by carefully placing them on top the pile in the trash can. They allways have a perfect one hole score. This would be funny if it had'nt happened ten times!

Last edited by MM879; 03/13/21.
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Originally Posted by TrueGrit
A good shooting rifle is a must have. But I've learned that I'm not a one hole all day capable shooter with the best rifles.


You and me both, but then again, in reality, 99% of shooters aren't either.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by MM879

There's a few guys like this at my club. They throw their targets away by carefully placing them on top the pile in the trash can. They allways have a perfect one hole score. This would be funny if it had'nt happened ten times!

🤣
You must shoot at the same club I do. Except I put the target holder back in the rack with my target still on it. I'll autograph it, leave a little love note to my intended audience. grin

They'll call me out the next time I see them...

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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Originally Posted by MM879

There's a few guys like this at my club. They throw their targets away by carefully placing them on top the pile in the trash can. They allways have a perfect one hole score. This would be funny if it had'nt happened ten times!

🤣
You must shoot at the same club I do. Except I put the target holder back in the rack with my target still on it. I'll autograph it, leave a little love note to my intended audience. grin

They'll call me out the next time I see them...


TFF,

I keep most all mine,

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At my age if I've slept since I shot, it's nice to have a reference point.

Ya!

GWB


A Kill Artist. When I draw, I draw blood.
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Over the years I've spent way more time hunting for tiny 3 shot groups (never taken more than that while hunting so I was OK with "only 3") than I have hunting for deer. I grew up in a shotgun only area so when I moved to NC 30 years ago I went on a serious big game rifle binge.

My wife and I have hunted together for 23 seasons now. She watched me fiddle and fuss looking for the best load for each rifle. When a season was coming up she'd ask which rifle was ready to shoot then walk out back and fire one 3 shot group. The first year she did that all three were touching inside the orange dot. She commented that "I guess we need to get an orange dot recipe".

I think it was 4 years ago that a Tikka T3x in you guessed it 6.5 Creedmoor got added into the rotation. People can Creedmoor bash all they want but a friend of mine bought one at the same time and both rifles will shoot 3 shot groups into 1/2 inch with factory ammo on a pretty regular basis.

The Tikka became my wife's rifle. I added Jewel triggers in a .308 and a 25-06 so I'm not feeling down waiting for her to finish filling tags so I can "borrow" her rifle. grin


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I have shot one hole groups, but not on a regular basis.

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Those groups look like "Minute of Hog" all day long!

I'm like you, GW.

I want that cold bore shot to go where I put it.

You only get one first shot. wink


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Lots of trash talkers......unless they're shooting 6.5 CM

Last edited by eaglemountainman; 03/13/21.

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My heart's in the mountains, chasing the deer.
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In Rocky's OP he missed some of the catch phrases associated with one hole groups..."If I do my part"...."not bad for 114 year old eyes"..."tricky winds"...etc, etc, ad nauseum.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Hunting ain't like off a bench,
The freeway isn't like offroad.
Tiny groups don't mean squat if a guy can't hit what he wants in the field.
That's what I think

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I did, too. Deliberately, because they are such cliches that they can stand unspoken.

The fact remains that many shooters are far too much perfectionists. The lung area of a deer/antelope is about a 12" target. One does not need a one-hole rifle to hit a 12" target - those unspoken phrases included.

We tend to ask "what group do I need at so-and-so range?" when the question that ought to be asked is "What is the longest range I can shoot with a rifle that groups x?" I am often derided for the suggestion that half a lung decides that - but it is the right answer. For a 12" lung, the range at which your rifle shoots a 6" group is your maximum shooting range for that species of animal. It's that simple.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

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I paid a very popular gunsmith to build me a 6 creed a few years ago, and even paid for the "accuracy guarantee." I get the rifle and best it would do was 1.5 moa. After several loads, scopes, shooters, and even stocks...it was a confirmed 1.5" shooter. I sent it back and he proudly claimed he shot it and it shot "one hole." His words specifically.

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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Originally Posted by MM879

There's a few guys like this at my club. They throw their targets away by carefully placing them on top the pile in the trash can. They allways have a perfect one hole score. This would be funny if it had'nt happened ten times!

🤣
You must shoot at the same club I do. Except I put the target holder back in the rack with my target still on it. I'll autograph it, leave a little love note to my intended audience. grin

They'll call me out the next time I see them...

I'm happy for them and would do the same. My day and eyes have long since past.

Last edited by MM879; 03/13/21.
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Originally Posted by geedubya
Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Originally Posted by MM879

There's a few guys like this at my club. They throw their targets away by carefully placing them on top the pile in the trash can. They allways have a perfect one hole score. This would be funny if it had'nt happened ten times!

🤣
You must shoot at the same club I do. Except I put the target holder back in the rack with my target still on it. I'll autograph it, leave a little love note to my intended audience. grin

They'll call me out the next time I see them...


TFF,

I keep most all mine,

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

At my age if I've slept since I shot, it's nice to have a reference point.

Ya!

GWB

I know the feeling...
I'll just snap a photo of the good ones. Wife gets a little bitchy if I forget to remove the staples and they get dropped in the house.
Most likely the last rifle I'll ever build.

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I see a lot more sub MOA-shooting rifles on forums than at the range. I've owned maybe 25 different bolt action hunting rifles over the years, only two were truly consistent, sub-MOA shooters. A Ruger Mod 77 heavy barreled .220 Swift, and a custom-barreled, trued action Mod 77 MK II in .358 Norma Mag. That was only when firing off a concrete bench, sandbags front and rear, and with only each rifle's best load.

By Sub-MOA, I mean that you fire several shots, let the barrel cool, fire off a few more, let the barrel cool, etc.... until you've got 20-30 holes all in a 1.047" inch square at 100 yards.

Now do it at 200 yards. If the group ain't under 2.094", it ain't a sub-MOA shooter. .

One 3 shot group under an inch at 100 yards is not a sub-MOA shooter.


Don't get me going on "one hole groups all day long" claims. That person either is shooting a benchrest setup at short range, or he's lying.

I often see, "sub-MOA if I do my part". That person is admitting he simply ignores all shots landing outside the MOA-sized group.

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I can fire into 1 hole every single time.












But If I fire 2 shots or more ......it can open it up.

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