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Well, i've had Mr. Bagwell's 20 twist '74 Shiloh Sharps 45-70 Roughrider for just over a year now, i'll not let it sit in solemn reverence in the safe another deer season, this year it's going hunting, i worked up a load with 75gr KIK 2F compressed with one 0.012" playing card wad, 0.190" Black Magic grease cookie on top of that along with another playing card wad over the cookie, pushed it all down with wooden dowel, sat a 515gr flat nosed paper patch bullet from an Ed Tilton mould Mr. Bagwell gave me and hand seated it down in the case, closed case mouth with Lyman taper crimp die, load clocks 1268 fps with 9 fps e.s.

Just got in from the bench learning sight holds with the load and marking a 400 yard correlation mark on the ladder of the full buckhorn rear sight, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300 and 350 yard holds are noted and ready to go, the rest will be up to me breaking a good trigger, the copper penny front sight showed the way to the targets as clear as a bell, i cast these bullets with 16-1 alloy, plenty hard enough for full penetration on ANY conus/Alaska/Canada game animal, the rifle is wonderfully accurate and a sheer honor to shoot and own.

RIP old Friend.


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Our old buddy JWP475 has graciously agreed to post up some pics from today, Thank You Sir, much appreciated.


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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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JWP, many Thanks Sir, just dont think i'll ever get there learning to post pics.

The gong pic is at 400 yards, first shot i knew i pulled left, moved the sight leaf down the ladder a tic and fired again, hit left of bull, pushed a spit patch through bore then hit just right of the bull, loaded and fired once more, 6 o'clock bottom of bull, perfect, pulled pocket knife and marked that spot on the ladder for 400, holding a rifle in hand with back of hand on top of front rest with no rear bag is plenty good enough for me with buckhorn barrel sight shooting at 400, all that damn moving around was me, not the rifle, hard to see a hard line that far away, sight hold was center 6 o'clock bottom of the gong, hitting all around a 6 inch bullseye at that distance tells me his old rifle likes my load, these are Buffalo rifles afterall, and any would be smoke at that range with this load.

Thanks again Sir. smile


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Well Gunner here is what that shooter is capable of doing.[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]Bill 1 by .com/photos/leadpot/]Kurt, on [bleep][Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]Bill Bagwell 2 by .com/photos/leadpot/]Kurt, on [bleep]
And on this day was the first time I ever heard Bill cuss. laugh I talked him into shooting my Calamity, the .50-90 laugh
I couldn't talk him into shooting the second shot. It just about knocked his tooth out and blood colored his beard :Dhttps://postimages.org/]imageprocessingservices[/url]=https://flic.kr/p/2nGpFSb][Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com][/url]pic of Bill, Orville and me by .com/photos/leadpot/]Kurt, on [bleep]

I told him not to kiss it, just shoot it LOL.

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LOL, you dang right Kurt, i will forever be a johnny come lately student, when that guy was on fire it was unbelievable, heck, iirc he told me you guys used to shoot two or three cases of black powder a year, 75 lbs of black will make a lot of smoke! cool


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Well Gunner, I once told Bill if your going to shoot.....shoot. Three cases was on the conservative side. laugh

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Kurt,

Bill was "not a fan" of the 50-90 I found out. He shot mine with a 700 grain bullet 120 grains Fg Goex Express, and he felt there was too much recoil and less penetration compared to the 500 + grain 45 caliber bullets. My rifle has some recoil thats true, but plenty of penetration with that 700 grain bullet. It was probably the only thing we disagreed on.

Regards,
Manny

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You bet Kurt, you guys really put in the time at the load bench, shooting bench and casting pot.

Manny, Bill and i butted heads over my 50-90 as well, when i put a 750gr flat nosed greaser over 120gr OE 2F for 1365 fps 8-9 feet into a a bedded 1800 lb eland bull, he finally cut me some slack on my 50 LOL! i had it on video and had to show him, he saw the bullet impact the right ham, then saw the skinners take it out behind the hide in the front of the left shoulder, it dang near made full length penetration ; ]


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Gunner,

I think he was used to the 450-550 grainers in the 50, and with those I would think the heavy 45's would indeed penetrate further. With the advent of the faster twist 50 barrels, these 700+ grain bullet come into their own, as you and Kurt know.

Bill would have enjoyed this conversation! Im glad you got one of his rifles. Bill gave a knife he had made to our outfitter in Africa. I wonder if Marius knows what he has...

Regards,
Manny

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Manny,

The load for my .50 was 115 gr of 2F Goex Express with a 718 gr Brooks Creedmoor or a 680 gr PP.
My Shiloh has the 1/22 ROT. I only used it once up in the Michigan UP and took a Whitetail Buck with it. It pushed him sideways over a small brook. The shot was a little high that went through both shoulder blades and spine. My favorite hunting rifles were the .44's. .44-90BN and the .44-77. Took three bison with them in fine shape and never recovered a bullet.
Just before Bill left us he wanted a .44-77.

I sort of retired Calamity. Heavy recoil tore the retina in both eyes a couple years ago and I lost a lot of my center vision.
I guess the 82 years are making me a little wimpy, but I still shoot it on and off to keep the bore shiny. laugh

You guys stay well.

Kurt

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Great stuff fellas. Gunner talked me into a 50-90 that I am still waiting on. Hearing these old stories are pretty cool to me.

Keep em coming!


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I love my .50-90 Shiloh Business Rifle. Bill convinced me to give a Business Rifle a try for a hunting rifle, although he said it should be a .45-70 and it would take anything on earth. I like the big bullets though. I got an adjustable mold from Jerry but I haven’t tried it’s heaviest bullets yet.


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by gunner500
...helluva marksman he was.

And a helluva teacher/mentor.

Ed

Yes Sir he was my Friend Ed, we gotta run a blade though a rib-eye soon.

Mine too. I will never forget spending a few days with him and his wife Cydra (sp) and his dog Buddy. I was just starting out shooting Sharps rifles, gifted to me by another dear friend , Evil Twin (aka Jim Martin) as a retirement gift when I left the Navy. In no time, Bill had me smacking the 500 yard ram with my 45/110 and 520gr PP bullets. I miss him.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Pacecars,

Thats why I bought my Business Rifle, Bill convinced me. I did order plain wood and now I wish I would have upgraded to semi-fancy, but, it will shoot the same either way!

Regards,
Manny

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Gunner,

That is a good looking flat nose pp bullet. I noted the 16-1 alloy and I am curious? Were you looking for deeper penetration? I've tried 20-1 and 30-1 for my pp, but have settled on pure lead for my pp bullets with a blunt profile. The target tells me that at hunting ranges that if there is a bit of bullet slump due to the soft lead, it doesn't affect accuracy.

I did recover one bullet from a 1900 pound or so bison, under the hide on the off side. I haven't found an elk yet that will hold one though!

Regards,

Manny

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Originally Posted by mannyspd1
Gunner,

I think he was used to the 450-550 grainers in the 50, and with those I would think the heavy 45's would indeed penetrate further. With the advent of the faster twist 50 barrels, these 700+ grain bullet come into their own, as you and Kurt know.

Bill would have enjoyed this conversation! Im glad you got one of his rifles. Bill gave a knife he had made to our outfitter in Africa. I wonder if Marius knows what he has...

Regards,
Manny


Manny, agreed, i'm not much on shirt button bullets, pancakes dont penetrate LOL, i've read the 50's started out with 473-475gr grease groove and paper patch bullets, i can barely patch a 1.315 inch bullet, no way i'd jack with trying to patch a 50 cqal bullet a lot less than an inch long ; ]

I think we've all heard of, or maybe employed ones self of what 50 cal and 700-800+ grains of bullet weight can do in wartime scenarios, Yes sir, Bill would have been in this discussion with both boots.


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I would loved to been a fly on Bills wall in his shop

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You're going to enjoy that 50 then holler holy hell when you see what it does to animals Big B, you've got two dang good bullets to run with, you can pick one or both and send over to Steve Brooks, he'll make you a hell of a mould.

Pacecars, that 50 cal missile mould from KAL will do it all to, just unscrew it and send up to 780 grains of love if you choose LOL!

Good stuff Jorge, these rifles and the memories of our old Buddy will never leave us.

Manny, i cast these at 16-1 for no other reasons than i have a lot of that alloy, and in the name of simplicity, one load/one alloy per rifle, it makes sight holds much easier, plus, as we know, 16-1 will work on any animal, i do agree about soft alloy and nose shape, as long as the bullet flys accurate, i dont think nose shape with soft alloy on light big game animals matters, at impact, a dang big dog knot meplat will be there.
Speaking of shirt buttons, i cast some .512" 530gr grease groove bullets for my 50-110 WCF lever gun out of a pile of fishing weights a guy gave me with some 40-1 thrown in the pot to harden it up some, those bullets leave that rifle at 1391 fps over 110gr Swiss FG, i hit a small buck at 30 yards in the shoulder on a hard quartering in angle, he looked like he was trying to drunk dance, totally lost control of his steering, staggered around and fell, exit on offside ribs would have held a 20oz pop bottle.
Plenty of mass for light big game, were i to use that bullet.rifle on Buffalo, i'd cast it from 10-1 alloy and let her fly.


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Originally Posted by 44mc
I would loved to been a fly on Bills wall in his shop


Yep, just stay up high enough up on that wall so he couldn't reach you with that damn fly swatter 44! cool


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