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Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15911443 03/18/21
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There were more B-29s lost to engine fires and other problems than to the Japanese. While the subs did a remarkable job of cutting off the supply line to Japan the B-29s mined many harbors with good results. In fact, the longest B-29 combat mission was dropping mines. The B-29s were an extremely valuable asset. Before Lemay changed the maintenance protocols for the B-29 engines several were lost on takeoff. They had to have max power on all 4 engines to make takeoff possible. The engine cooling cowl flaps had to be closed because of the drag they caused. Due to the ambient air temps I'll wager the engines ran a bit hot. The R3350 compound engines were radical for the time and produced a lot of power for the size. Like anything pushed to the limits there was a price. All of the accessory cases (pumps and generators) were made of magnesium and if an engine fire occurred and the magnesium ignited there was no putting the fire out and behind the front wing spar were the fuel tanks. The cowl flaps for engine cooling were quite large and if stuck open caused too much drag in flight. So much drag they couldn't make it back to home bases. Iwo was the midway point for the bombing campaign and the bombers were the only option to bomb the home islands until Iwo was taken. The navy put a picket line of subs to rescue downed B-29 crews that had to bail out or ditch. Taking Iwo likely released several subs for combat action. Like already posted, the plan to nuke Japan wasn't known.


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Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: JamesJr] #15911446 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by JamesJr


]


While the bombing campaign by the Americans and British most certainly helped win the war,.


Not really. German arms production was HIGHER in 44-45 than it was in 41-42. It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport. Albert Speer had German factories humming until the end.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 007FJ] #15911525 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by 007FJ
Originally Posted by JTrapper73
Interesting article. I didn’t realize that there was that level of debate over Iwo Jima. I thought Peleliu was supposed to have been the mistake.


I can see that point of view as a look back 20/20 view that we have the luxury of. Bypass it and cut off the supply chain to them. Let em rot!


IIRC the great strategic debate at the time was between Nimitz and MacArthur.

The rough carpentry version: NImitz (Navy) wanted to go straight for the jugular (Japan) from the West, while MacArthur (Army) wanted to island hop starting from the Southwest in a Northeasterly direction.

MacArthur convinced Truman that island hopping was the way, and so that's the basket we put most of our eggs in.

IMO Nimitz' bold plan was the better of the two, but you know what they say about hindsight...


Whatever you are, be a good one. - Abraham Lincoln
Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15911536 03/18/21
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At the time maybe. Today no we are giving it all way.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: Jerseyboy] #15911544 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by Jerseyboy
It was essential for the air war. The air war beat Japan, even though the air war didn't beat Germany.
In and of itself it didn't beat Germany, but it did play an important role. Hitler's foolishness and Russia's resolve are much of what beat Germany.


We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?

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Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: jorgeI] #15911810 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by JamesJr


]


While the bombing campaign by the Americans and British most certainly helped win the war,.


Not really. German arms production was HIGHER in 44-45 than it was in 41-42. It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport. Albert Speer had German factories humming until the end.

Yep, turning the escort fighters loose on their return to England for low level strafing any military targets they came across destroyed more than the bombers in the last year of the war in Europe.


The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: bruinruin] #15912626 03/18/21
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You can get copies of his service record from the National Archives. Your wife may have to be the applicant since she is a blood relative. Go to the Archives website and you can find the requirements. One warning there was a fire in 1991 and a lot of the service records were lost. Also you may be able to find information on him in Ancestry. They have quite a bit on my dad.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: Dave_in_WV] #15913210 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by Dave_in_WV
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by JamesJr


]


While the bombing campaign by the Americans and British most certainly helped win the war,.


Not really. German arms production was HIGHER in 44-45 than it was in 41-42. It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport. Albert Speer had German factories humming until the end.

Yep, turning the escort fighters loose on their return to England for low level strafing any military targets they came across destroyed more than the bombers in the last year of the war in Europe.


Doesn't matter how much you make if ya can't get it to the front. Fighters and Resistance fighters played hell with the infrastructure. British Tiffies were especially good at vehicular interdiction.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: jorgeI] #15913592 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by jorgeI
It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport.


And it's good to have control of the skies over the ground forces.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15913611 03/18/21
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MacArthur's ego? hummm...... MacArthur owned a Brewery and other property in the Phillipines. 250K lives would have been saved had they bi passed the Philippines and this was a hot topic at the time.

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Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: tjm10025] #15913892 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by jorgeI
It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport.


And it's good to have control of the skies over the ground forces.


It's not good, it's absolutely necessary.

That is, unless ROE has your hands tied...

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15913944 03/18/21
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My father was one of the guys that fought the Island hopping campaign in the Pacific, yes it was worth it

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: blanket] #15914100 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by blanket
My father was one of the guys that fought the Island hopping campaign in the Pacific, yes it was worth it


My Father was with the Army's 77th Infantry Division at Guam, Philippines, and Okinawa. He only had doubts about one landing (one that he did not participate in) and that was Peleliu. The rest he felt were necessary to varying degrees.

He was not an Officer, nor did he participate in any planning, those were just his opinions.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: Vic_in_Va] #15914178 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by JamesJr


]


While the bombing campaign by the Americans and British most certainly helped win the war,.


Not really. German arms production was HIGHER in 44-45 than it was in 41-42. It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport. Albert Speer had German factories humming until the end.


So too, I believe was everyone else's. Except perhaps for Japan(I forget when oil, rubber and steel shortages began to hamper them.

Originally Posted by Vic_in_Va
Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by jorgeI
It was actually tactical aviation that had the greater impact by taking out transport.


And it's good to have control of the skies over the ground forces.


It's not good, it's absolutely necessary.

That is, unless ROE has your hands tied...

Denial of opposition possession of the skies is the reason the Germans advanced as far as they did into Russia. Arguably due to Stalin's own disregard of intelligence.

Denial of the airfield to the Japanese was as important as gaining possession for the allies.


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Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15914228 03/18/21
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Quote
Denial of opposition possession of the skies is the reason the Germans advanced as far as they did into Russia.


And having that possession denied is the reason the Invasion of England was abandoned.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15914248 03/18/21
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Without Iwo Jima we wouldn't have the photo that boosted public moral and sold enough war bonds to carry America over the finish line.

Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: TreeMutt] #15914253 03/18/21
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Originally Posted by TreeMutt
Was the taking back of the Philippines worth it or was it mainly to satisfy MacArthur's ego?...these kinda questions will always exist but we don't live in the times and will never truly know.


Bit of both imho. Sound military decision based upon the amount of Japs there and the resources they could draw from it in the US rear should we have bypassed it but ultimately devastating to the Philippines and the people. In hindsight...ole Mac might have even said we should have bypassed it.

Japs should have declared Manila an open city. The blood is on their hands


GOD Bless America
Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15914261 03/18/21
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American bombing campaigns in Europe were mass murder...nothing more nothing less. Didn’t end [bleep] other than the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians

Germany didn’t loose the war due to material production shortages. They lost it due to the barbarian hordes from the east overrunning them


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Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15914264 03/18/21
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I mean to disparage no one...I have the benefit of hindsight.

Well to be fair I do mean to disparage allied air command...they were murderous war criminals and a pox on American righteousness.


GOD Bless America
Re: Iwo Jima. Was it worth the cost? [Re: 7mmbuster] #15914376 03/18/21
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Japs should have declared Manila an open city. The blood is on their hands


Senior Commanders had instructed that Manila be abandoned, for lack of a better term, I can't recall if it was to be declared an Open City. It was some Junior Commanders' decision to stand and fight. The code of Bushido had been firmly implanted and they were going to fight, and fight they did!

Of course, Manila caught hell.

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