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And Now For Something Different - Spain! #15914968 03/19/21
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This is a closed auction on a Spanish built 99. These guns are occasionally referenced in this forum but never really talked about. I don't think I want one but I do think it would be interesting knowing more about their place in the context of 99 production. What exactly is the story of the Spanish made 99?


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/894239363

(and not the Spanish Inquisition)


"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
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Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15914997 03/19/21
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I don’t know anything about them other than I guess they were the last attempt to keep them in production. Glad I didn’t see that one or I would have bought it for that price. Would have made a great candidate for rebore to .338 Federal


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Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915112 03/19/21
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That went cheap

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: FUG1899] #15915174 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by FUG1899


That went cheap



And you don't hear that too much these days


"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915186 03/19/21
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Got some figure to that wood.

Okay.. To the best of our knowledge...

Not all the details are known, including exactly when it began or ended. But apparently it was in or shortly after 1987 that Ron Coburn at Savage wanted to continue the 99, but needed to bring the prices down. There was too much labor involved to make it profitable to continue them, and Savage had just gone through a bankruptcy.

So he contracted with Llama to create new methods of creating the large parts of the 99 through investment casting and more modern CNC methods. Llama did this. All the smaller parts, barrels and stocks continued to be made in the USA, but the receiver and lever and probably a couple other parts were made in Spain. The guns were assembled in Spain. About 200 US made receivers were sent to Spain as a control group, presumably they were returned and finished in the US at some point (might explain a 1987 99C I have with a blued lever).

So somewhere between 700 and 1200 rifles were made in Spain up through about 1994, at which time Savage brought all manufacturing back to the US - but continued to use the investment casting and CNC methods designed by Llama.

The Spanish guns do have a reputation for low quality.. but having one, and having had half a dozen 99C's from the 90's, I don't see any difference. I haven't shot them, but appearance wise they look the same. It might be that Savage cleaned up/fixed the Spanish 99's before they shipped them, but the end result looks the same.

Almost all Spanish 99C's were in 308, though at least one 243 is known of. Catalogs listed them as available in 308 and 243, though most of the years they stated the 99 was available only in limited quantities.

IC-A

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915225 03/19/21
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here is one that didn't go cheap. if I had seen the one above I may not have been able to resist at that price. just because.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893530597


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
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Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: deerstalker] #15915252 03/19/21
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Yeah, that one I'd seen for sale. Made me happy about mine that's in the box. grin

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915287 03/19/21
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Thanks! Between 700 and 1200 guns made. That's a rare bird.


"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915576 03/19/21
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Learning is lifetime! A whole new world/dimension of Savage production I knew nothing of... Such existence! Not to make a difference. I came late to Savage as backing into a bargain several decades ago. Such by then, some several decades of collecting, Finally, that 99H of 1938 in 250 w/nifty Stith mounts & Lyman Alaskan scope... Definitely getting my attention! From there... Tuning in & turning on'!

While yet, with rare exceptions, fixated on the true vintage - fifties & earlier Savage levers, some foreign lever production has definitely achieved my attention. "Miroku!" Japanese maker of fine rifle products. For Winchester, pulling their "huevos" from the frying pan. The Win levers we see today... I believe mos5 Japanese mfg! My 1886 Browning saddle ring carbine, Miroku damned nice! Far better than poor "Remlins"!

I'd like some opinions concerning these Spanish 99 genre. To my 'yet amateur' mind, perhaps in going to Spain, better off moving back in to classic Savages. The eighties & nineties American market, about a new gun a minute! smile Tough competition! What say the Savage folks here. As my Win '86, would the picture be different had the Spanish Savage emerged in classic context? Perhaps a few basic 'senior models' in yet popular chamberings!

Open question!
Best!
John

Last edited by iskra; 03/19/21.
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915664 03/19/21
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Some info on the Spanish 99s on pg. 107-108 of David’s book.

IC-B

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: iskra] #15915745 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by iskra
Learning is lifetime! A whole new world/dimension of Savage production I knew nothing of... Such existence! Not to make a difference. I came late to Savage as backing into a bargain several decades ago. Such by then, some several decades of collecting, Finally, that 99H of 1938 in 250 w/nifty Stith mounts & Lyman Alaskan scope... Definitely getting my attention! From there... Tuning in & turning on'!

While yet, with rare exceptions, fixated on the true vintage - fifties & earlier Savage levers, some foreign lever production has definitely achieved my attention. "Miroku!" Japanese maker of fine rifle products. For Winchester, pulling their "huevos" from the frying pan. The Win levers we see today... I believe mos5 Japanese mfg! My 1886 Browning saddle ring carbine, Miroku damned nice! Far better than poor "Remlins"!

I'd like some opinions concerning these Spanish 99 genre. To my 'yet amateur' mind, perhaps in going to Spain, better off moving back in to classic Savages. The eighties & nineties American market, about a new gun a minute! smile Tough competition! What say the Savage folks here. As my Win '86, would the picture be different had the Spanish Savage emerged in classic context? Perhaps a few basic 'senior models' in yet popular chamberings!

Open question!
Best!
John

What's the question?


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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack

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Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915778 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by Jaaack
Some info on the Spanish 99s on pg. 107-108 of David’s book.

Callahan disagreed with that 1992 date. He had it at or around '87-'88.

1992 would mean that Savage advertised the 99C in their catalogs for 5 years despite not producing any at all. Which is only slightly more weird than going 5 years and only producing 700-1200.

Last edited by Calhoun; 03/19/21.
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15915796 03/19/21
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I think we should pool our resources and contract with a machine shop in Wuhan to build us a bunch of EG's, and sell them and retire filthy rich. Fit them with KowDung walnut and offer them in any caliber as long as it's .250-3000. Pre-drill for scopes in some bastard thread size and hole spacing, and offer mounts/screws only available from us.


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Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15916128 03/19/21
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Well heck, if we get Lightfoot to fall in we could easily alter his mount to fit what ever oddball configuration you can think of. I think we're half-way there.


"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: gnoahhh] #15916137 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
I think we should pool our resources and contract with a machine shop in Wuhan to build us a bunch of EG's, and sell them and retire filthy rich. Fit them with KowDung walnut and offer them in any caliber as long as it's .250-3000. Pre-drill for scopes in some bastard thread size and hole spacing, and offer mounts/screws only available from us.


I like it!

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15916172 03/19/21
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Parts that Llama set up for the investment cast process, as per Callahan:

* receivers
* triggers
* levers
* safety's
* internal hammers(the long "L" shaped assembly that holds the mainspring and firing pin)
* magazine latch.

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: gnoahhh] #15916183 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
I think we should pool our resources and contract with a machine shop in Wuhan to build us a bunch of EG's, and sell them and retire filthy rich. Fit them with KowDung walnut and offer them in any caliber as long as it's .250-3000. Pre-drill for scopes in some bastard thread size and hole spacing, and offer mounts/screws only available from us.

i Have had everything i ever wan from Wuhan Gary, thank you very much! still coughing up my toe nails.
Now if we could get a Turkish manufacturer on board that might be the cats meow. think Turkish walnut stocks!


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15916407 03/19/21
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So it sounds like the Llama 99s really were Savage's last gasp effort to keep the 99 going,


"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: S99VG] #15916454 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by S99VG
So it sounds like the Llama 99s really were Savage's last gasp effort to keep the 99 going,

Well.. second from last gasp. The last one was producing them in the USA for several years in the 90's. Even that wasn't the last.. they looked at using CNC about 10 or 12 years ago to bring the price down low enough to introduce them again.

Re: And Now For Something Different - Spain! [Re: Calhoun] #15916665 03/19/21
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Originally Posted by Calhoun
Originally Posted by S99VG
So it sounds like the Llama 99s really were Savage's last gasp effort to keep the 99 going,

Well.. second from last gasp. The last one was producing them in the USA for several years in the 90's. Even that wasn't the last.. they looked at using CNC about 10 or 12 years ago to bring the price down low enough to introduce them again.


Interesting. There's been plenty talk about the earliest 99/1899/1895 serial number known but do we know what the latest serial number was? And who here on the forum has the latest 99 ever made? That's kind of a cool distinction.


"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law"
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