Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Maybe not a wildcat but 358 Norma?

Ok, who has one? the good the bad and ugly? I have several 308 normas does the 358 bring and extra level of "whoop" to the party. and those that own one, anyone ever pushed say 180 grain bullets thru one?

Thanks in advance.

I've had an interest in the 358 Norma Mag, just never followed thru with it.
Curious to hear other's opinion of it.
Here's an article with some good information.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/the-heavyweight-358-norma

and a couple of old threads

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/534833/1

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11883849/all/358_norma_magnum

It's not a wildcat, but there is a paucity of reloading data and much of what is available is anemic. I've enjoyed mine, but it is a challenge to say that it has noticeably more "whoop" than a .30 caliber magnum cartridge. I've witnessed more than 7 seven feet of penetration in moose and have yet to catch a .358 bullet in a brown bear. At modest hunting ranges of Alaska's largest animals, the .358 Norma is an excellent performer for handloaders and rifle loonys alike. It is easy to form brass and normally bullets are widely available from 180-310 grains. I've tested a number of powders but have more or less settled on 4350, RL-19, N203-B, and RL-17. Having said all of that, a .338 WM or a .340 Weatherby probably make more sense and are even more difficult to separate from the .358 Norma's performance.

When I closed the shop in the mid '90s there was an extra 700 LE Classic in 35 Whelen in stock. A local smith who had built another rifle for me had a 358 Norma reamer & said he would do the conversion (rechamber & open the bolt face) for like $150. Had the rifle back in less than a week with visions of an Alaska trip that never happened... dont even think I ever took it for a walk in the woods. I still have the rifle & just started working with it again in the last year. There's damned little new data, if the cartridge is even mentioned, in recent loading manuals, but some of the newer wonder powders are proving to be outstanding in the old girl. It's just slow going. There's no warts on her, just a bit of an oddball. Kind of an ignored 60 something MILF that aims to please.

PP2000MR shows outstanding gains in 35 Whelen so I figured since the same powders worked in the Norma, why not try it? After working up to a case full @3200fps with 200s, it didn't pressure out so PP Varmint would be the next logical step in the search for max velocity. None available in the last year... Moving upward in bullet weight the PP2000 showed a very slight ejector burnish on one case @3125fps with 225 Sierras last week. Dropping back a grain to 3100fps should be safe max. which ain't too shabby. I haven't worked much with 250s recently, but good ol' 4350 still gives 2800fps without breaking a sweat. So yeah, I would think that does add more "whoop" to the party. The heavier weights are still untried.

Brass is $$ if you can find any. Just snagged 50 new pieces for a good price in the classifieds. Thanks Brett. The rest sold quickly too, so there are still other users out there. I've been using 300 WinMag brass as a cheaper & more available substitute. Just a wee bit more work, it seems an improvement over 338 WinMag brass which ends up .020-.040" too short after fireforming. If a donut does show up at the neck/shoulder junction it wont matter because thanks to the Norma freebore bullet bases dont get seated that far down.

Would I do it again? Absolutely. The only thing different might be an inch or 2 more barrel, but the bigger bores dont seem to lose as much per inch as the small stuff. The 22" balances nice. If a semi-wildcat sounds like fun, one of the beltless mag cases based on the 404 Jeffrey might be a small improvement too. Kind of a 35 Newton redo.

PS... In addition to the ability to load pistol bullets, 250 cast GC bullets @ around 1900fps are great fun to plink with out to 100yds or so. A deer wouldn't like them much either. Bigger slap & more snot than a 30-30.

I have built a few 358 Normas and have thought I would do one for myself but just haven't gotten around to it. One thing I have done, on request, was to chamber the rifles with a longer neck so the user could simply neck down 300 Win Mag brass without trimming. I thought that was a pretty good idea. Factory ammo still worked fine as well. Case capacity and dimensions bear a resemblance to the 35 Newton. GD.

Since you asked about 180s, here's a QL I saved from somewhere on the web...

Cartridge : .358 Norma Mag.
Bullet : .358, 180, Barnes 'TTSX' 30459
Useable Case Capaci: 78.690 grain H2O = 5.109 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.346 inch = 84.99 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 112 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Fill/Load Charge Vel. Burnt Pmax Pmuzz BTime
% Gr fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Alliant Reloder-17 *T 109.3 83.2 3400 99.7 63000 9110 1.021
Winchester 760-H414 108.3 83.1 3334 95.9 63000 8953 1.033
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 112.0 79.1 3288 98.0 57922 8863 1.060
Accurate 4064 106.5 75.6 3281 100.0 63000 7839 1.073
Accurate 4350 112.0 81.2 3279 97.9 58809 8716 1.075
Hodgdon H380 105.0 77.8 3279 98.0 63000 8443 1.051
Lovex D073.6 100.9 75.4 3275 100.0 63000 7831 1.058
Accurate 2520 98.6 75.4 3275 100.0 63000 7831 1.058
Norma URP *C 112.0 80.4 3267 97.8 58149 8691 1.069
Norma 204 *C 112.0 83.9 3263 92.9 62387 8638 1.040
Accurate 2495 100.4 71.3 3263 100.0 63000 7546 1.078
Ramshot Hunter 112.0 83.9 3260 95.9 58178 8839 1.068
Lovex S065 111.5 79.1 3243 97.2 63000 8252 1.057
Lovex S070 112.0 80.4 3232 95.7 61025 8414 1.069
Lovex D073.5 94.4 73.4 3231 100.0 63000 7640 1.066
Accurate 2460 94.1 73.4 3231 100.0 63000 7640 1.066

Would love to see some pictures of it

I had an 03 Springfield in 358 in the late 70's. I loaded 250gr RN's for big game and it killed deer just fine. It really came into it's own with 148 grain double ended wadcutters over a pinch of shotgun powder, it would shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards and became my favorite squirrel rifle, it put a lot of meat on the table. Someone offered me more than I could resist and it became history in the 1980's. Bought it for a moose rifle and never drew a tag.

The MILF thing got you excited, huh?

It looks just like any other 700 LE 35 Whelen Classic with a Leupold 1.5-5x Vari-X III on it. The front sight hood wont stay on though. That's how I tell it apart from its twin Whelen.

At 60, she's a GILF.

I had the Norma itch a while back but have been so satisfied with my Whelen I doubt I will ever scratch it. I have some NIB dies and new Norma brass I can dig out if anyone is interested.

I have had 2 of them. first one was a RH model 70 and ended up selling it to build a basically identical model in LH.
I've killed moose, caribou, black and Grizzly bears with mine, all with 250 gr bullets, over stiff charges of IMR4350
Barnes X bullets and then when I couldn't get them anymore I switched to Nosler's, all worked marvelously on game and were super accurate.
I've used both reformed 338 Win brass and Norma 358 brass, and never saw much of a difference in either, performance or accuracy wise anyway.

It is a handful to shoot, but not any worse than 338 Win or even 375H&H, which I consider the closest competitors. I like different, and that's why I did it, but for ease of availability of ammo or even reloading components, I'd just do one of the others if were to do it over again. But when have any of us rifle looneys ever done the practical and easy thing?

Mine, built on. Remington Model 30 Express. It was someone else’s custom rifle for a once in a lifetime hunt. Built by Mark Chanlynn in the late 1970s, it went to Alaska once, then sat in a safe for nearly forty years. I got this photo before it arrived. I thought the curved lines of the laminated wood was an optical illusion, but they really do curve. I think it’s a pretty cool rifle.

Cool rifle. Is that stock horizontally laminated? Looks like unusual natural wood.

Yes, the laminations are on their sides. Kind of unusual, as far as I know.

358 Norma just has a cool factor... any 35 is a hammer.

Heck yeah, I have a barrel that needs to become another 35 Newton or 358 Norma.. I like the big 35's...

Norma that biitch Scotty!!

And a 1-6” twist to boot!!! Haha 😂😂

I had one a few yrs ago, but a fellow co-worker talked me out of it. Should have ignored him.