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Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE #15926939 03/22/21
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA ready_on_the_right OP Campfire Ranger
OP ready_on_the_right Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA	SEP-OCT 1985, RIFLE # 101 This pre-dates my beginning to read Wolfe Pubs, glad I was able to locate Phil Shoemaker's article on the Creation of Ole Ugly! I think Wolfe should re-publish it. Mike God, Family, and Country. NRA Endowment Member

GB1

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15926979 03/22/21
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA ready_on_the_right OP Campfire Ranger
OP ready_on_the_right Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA	PS Thanks Phil for a great article!! God, Family, and Country. NRA Endowment Member

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15927163 03/22/21
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,046 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna
Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,046 Banana Belt, Montana	Phil also did an article on his .458 for the August 2011 edition of RIFLE LOONY NEWS, which includes some stuff that occurred during its next 26 years. “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15927568 03/22/21
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA ready_on_the_right OP Campfire Ranger
OP ready_on_the_right Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA	Thanks John I'll go back and re-read that one! Mike God, Family, and Country. NRA Endowment Member

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15927851 03/22/21
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA ready_on_the_right OP Campfire Ranger
OP ready_on_the_right Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA	Vol 3, Issue 2 Another fine read! God, Family, and Country. NRA Endowment Member

IC B2

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15927960 03/22/21
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 22,735 Minnesocialism B bigwhoop Campfire Ranger
bigwhoop Campfire Ranger B Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 22,735 Minnesocialism	I say in keeping with National Gun Writers Month someone should post that vintage article here! My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15928356 03/22/21
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,774 Alaska K kaboku68 Campfire Tracker
kaboku68 Campfire Tracker K Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,774 Alaska	Published again in Gun Digest 2021 which was very good.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15928620 03/22/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky	Very different articles all three, 1985, 2011, and 2021. All about the same subject, but Phil is getting to be a better comedian as he grows older. 1985 was when I pitched up in Alaska for 5 years total. I read Phil in '85 and did a sort of Old Ugly .458 WM of my own under his influence. But I made the mistake later of being influenced by the parrots who said the .458 WM was "little more than a +P 45-70." I rechambered and opened up my Mk X/Brown Precision to .458 Lott. Now I call it Ol'Fugly a Fouled up Old Ugly, but I keep it because it is a .458 Lott Like Jack Built, it has the .458 WM throat remnant just intruded upon for 2.8" brass. It is reserved for sub-400-gr bullets and birdshot loads, the only way it can possibly beat a .458 WM. With 400-gr and heavier bullets and allowed to go to the higher MAP of the SAAMI .458 Lott (62,500 psi) and allowed to go up to 3.6" COL the SAAMI-chambered .458 Winchester Magnum leaves the SAAMI-chambered .458 Lott in the dust. Even if you keep the SAAMI .458 WM restricted to 60,000 psi and 3.340", the SAAMI .458 Lott at 62,500 psi and 3.6" only has a 50 fps advantage. If the .458 Lott does 2300 fps with 500-grainer, the .458 Winchester Magnum will do 2250 fps. It is the throating differences. Physics does not lie. Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15929109 03/23/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky	NECG finally got the M98 3-pos wing safety from across the pond and fulfilled their backorders. My "Big Ugly" project has the needed parts now, and has been renamed "Old Fugly" in honor of Phil Shoemaker's "Old Ugly" the .458 WinMag. Old Fugly should be great with the 250-grainers and birdshot capsule loads. Her saving grace is that she has the original SAAMI .458 WinMag throat, barrel was not set back when re-chambered to .458 Lott. She is a .458 Lott "Like Jack Built," and not the SAAMI .458 Lott with short and tight throat. Old Fugly is next in the queue when THE GUNSMITH is back on his feet. Finishing touches will be by me with Krylon from Walmart. Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15930198 03/23/21
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA ready_on_the_right OP Campfire Ranger
OP ready_on_the_right Campfire Ranger Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 18,074 GA, USA	Very cool! I can't post the article without someone's permission unless copyright expires or something I don't know the rules on it so will defer. Mike God, Family, and Country. NRA Endowment Member

IC B3

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15931148 03/23/21
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,798 Missouri but my hearts in the ... T tankerjockey Campfire Regular
tankerjockey Campfire Regular T Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,798 Missouri but my hearts in the ...	I’ve considered turning my Mark X 9.3x62 into a “fugly” gun. Les Its not always easy to do the right thing, But it is always the right thing to do.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15931485 03/23/21
Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 584 D DBoston Campfire Regular
DBoston Campfire Regular D Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 584	Why do you think the Lott was a FU? I can guess why but would like your thoughts on the conversion.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15932193 03/23/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky	My first post on this thread ... https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15694480/1 ... is a start. BTW, the 9.3x62mm Mauser owes much of its greater than expected performance to C.I.P. throating similar to that of the SAAMI .458 WM, scaled to bullet diameter, of course. They are brothers from different mothers. Originally Posted by Riflecrank Mike, Agree ! In 1984, got my first .458 WM, a Ruger No.1H, in Blairstown , MO where elephant are pretty scarce, but I was ready, just in case. Then followed the pushfeed M70 XTR and M700 "Safari" of same 1984 vintage with which I hunted cow moose and varmint only. I learned of the 460 WBY, better for chest thumping purposes in more ways than one. The first three .458 WM rifles got traded off. I had a couple of Whitworth MK X .458 WM rifles after that, but unfortunately turned them into a .458 Lott and a .458/.416 Ruger. A 34-year career of wildcatting coincided with my neglect of the .458 WM. The .458 WM would have served just as well or better than the oddballs up to .510-caliber that I played with on bison, water buffalo and cape buffalo. I am reformed, and I have acquired 6 more .458 Winchester Magnum rifles, including a Ruger No.1 of 1980 production. She must have been a safe queen ready for elephant. Their chambers will never be molested. I figured out how to correct a .458 Lott Ruger No. 1, by running a .450 NE 3.25" reamer into it. Another alternative is to run a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum into the SAAMI .458 Lott. Thus, one can make the SAAMI .458 Lott the equal of the .458 WM-Unlimited by correcting its throat. That sort of .458 Lott Like Jack Built might even be better with birdshot and light bullets of 250-gr to 350-gr. Only with rethroating can it equal the power of the .458 WM-Unlimited with 400-gr to 600-gr bullets. If you let the .458 WM have a MAP as high as the .458 Lott MAP (SAAMI 62,500 psi), and you use the .458 WM at the same COL as the .458 Lott (you don't have to go longer, though you can) the .458 WM wins every time. Just requires a bullet long enough to make the COL desired. Reduced loads and cast loads ? The .458 WM wins there too. Accuracy ? Elmer Keith was the first scribe that told me the .458 WM had no flies on it in that regard. Elmer was not wrong. Here is a test image through the gallery here: Pick the KE level you want and you can find a bullet that will do it with the .458 Winchester Magnum with SAAMI chamber. Powders and bullets are excellent now. For an "Express Rifle and Big Bore" there has been no improvement since 1956. Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15933504 03/24/21
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,915 AK peninsula 458Win Campfire Tracker
458Win Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,915 AK peninsula	Old Ugly is still up and working for a living and looking forward to another season. Since the Covid shut down non resident bear season last year we have both a spring and a fall season this year and I am looking forward to it. It's been 30+ years since I decided I might possibly need a replacement for Old Ugly in case it was lost, so found another MK X 458 Bbl action , with the magazine release in the trigger guard, and began modifying it with 3 position safety and then one of Morris' Alaskan Arms M70 style triggers. Fortunately I haven't needed it . Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15933519 03/24/21
Joined: Jan 2021 Posts: 1,769 NC O OGB Campfire Regular
OGB Campfire Regular O Joined: Jan 2021 Posts: 1,769 NC	Quality tools generally last a lifetime. Dad told me years ago, "the poor can only afford the best" Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15933675 03/24/21
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 17,235 The Land of Cotton GeoW Campfire Ranger
GeoW Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 17,235 The Land of Cotton	Takes a special kind of character to show a rifle such as "Old Ugly" to the eye of a camera! I like it.. Thanks Phil! G "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon! "A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15933894 03/24/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,332 Western Kentucky	I have an appointment April 8 to take Old Fugly to THE GUNSMITH after his second covid shot. She will get her NECG safety installed. Then I will head to Walmart to find the Krylon for a freehand camo paint job. I cannot promise it will be as ugly as Phil's paint job, but I will try. Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15936609 03/25/21
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,823 Texas TimZ Campfire Tracker
TimZ Campfire Tracker Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,823 Texas	Still remember reading Phil’s original article , hard to believe that was 35 years ago. Time flies when you are having fun!

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE Riflecrank #15936663 03/25/21
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 10,445 north central PA S shootinurse Campfire Outfitter
shootinurse Campfire Outfitter S Joined: May 2005 Posts: 10,445 north central PA	Originally Posted by Riflecrank Then I will head to Walmart to find the Krylon for a freehand camo paint job. I cannot promise it will be as ugly as Phil's paint job, but I will try. You'll have to try really hard. Phil has ugly down to a science. "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard

Re: Alaska Guide Builds a Modern BACKUP RIFLE ready_on_the_right #15938313 03/25/21
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,457 Northern Colorado E elkcountry Campfire Regular
elkcountry Campfire Regular E Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,457 Northern Colorado	Sorry for the ignorant question, but can a 458 WM be fired in a Lott chamber similar to a 38 special in a 357 mag? Love reading all of Phil's articles, but the ones about "Ole Ugly" and it's travels are my favorite! Elk Country "I refuse to waste my common sense on those who have been educated beyond their intelligence" All you need to know about Democrats is they call American citizens "Deplorables" and illegal immigrants "Dreamers"!

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