24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,697
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,697
Shot my leopard with a .308 Win loaded with 180gr. Nosler Partition

GB1

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
Jorge,

Have seen one leopard lost when the shot was a LITTLE too far forward with a .300 Winchester Magnum and a good180-grain bullet at over 3100 fps. I know this because I was there, and helped follow it up. It fell out of the tree with a thump that made it sound very dead, but by the time we approached the blind there was only some blood and a little shoulder-
bone. We followed the blood trail for over an hour, in the dark, and while the leopard's eyes showed a couple of times in the flashlights, the blood-drops eventually ended. SEVERAL hunters went back the next morning, with trackers, and never found it.

From what several experienced PHs have told me, it's actually better to hit a leopard a little farther back than too far forward--which is true of many cats.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,182
MAC Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,182
9.3x62 Mauser with 286 gr soft points.


You get out of life what you are willing to accept. If you ain't happy, do something about it!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,604
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,604
A similar situation happened to a friend of mine except his shot was the other way as nearer the guts. Cat ran off and they found him the next morning. The PH told him he was glad he was using a 300 instead of a lesser caliber. I get your point and we all have opinions and mine is using a 243 on a leopard and putting all one's eggs in the "all that matters is shot placement" basket is foolhardy. Sort of begs the question too as to why there are minimum calibers allowed for certain game?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com].


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
I have seen that photo from THE PERFECT SHOT many times. In fact, the guy who shot the leopard spent quite a while looking through the PH's copy before we'd even had a leopard coming to a bait.

One of the interesting things about minimum caliber regulations is how much they vary. Many hunters assume (apparently because they've "heard" it) that .375 is the minimum caliber for dangerous game throughout Africa, when many jurisdictions don't even have a minimum. Plus, in some places the minimum only applies to visiting hunters, not residents.

I know three very experienced PHs who've killed lots of Cape buffalo with the 7mm Remington Magnum, .30-06 Springfield and .300 Winchester Magnum--and not with head shots, but typical chest shots. The guy who used the .30-06 killed around 500 buffalo with handloaded 180-grain Partitions, with never a problem. The guy who used the .300 Winchester used 180-grain Barnes TSXs, same deal. The guy who used the 7mm Remington was really old-school, only insisting on 175-grain bullets of whatever type, again with no problems.

It's also interesting to compare minimum-cartridge regulations in various American states. Montana has never had a minimum for big game, or at least it hasn't since I started hunting in 1966, apparently because the game department assumed hunters know what works--though I have never run into anybody who uses the .22 Long Rifle on elk, ever though it's totally legal.

I will also note, however, that .22 centerfires are pretty popular not only for antelope and deer but elk, though the elk hunters I've known tend to prefer larger 22s like the .220 Swift and .22-250. One of my local buddies is a retired outfitter who used a 7mm Remington Magnum during those years, mostly to help finish off elk his clients shot in the wrong place.. But after retiring he switched to the .22-250, and has killed dozens of elk with it, using typical behind-the-shoulder rib shots with 55-grain softpoints.

Our neighboring state Wyoming, however, has been micro-regulating minimums for many years. Until 2012 the minimum for any big game was a centerfire cartridge of at least .24 caliber, with a cartridge at least two inches long. The next year they backed off a little, saying that .22 centerfires could be used on deer, antelope, mountain lions and wolves, as long as the bullet weighed at least 60 grains, and the cartridge was at least two inches long. But they retained the .24 caliber regulation for elk, moose, mountain goat, bighorn sheep and black bear--which is somewhat puzzling, since bighorns aren't any harder to kill than deer, and some people say they die easier (which is my limited experience).

All of this tends to make me suspect that most minimum-cartridge regulations are formulated primarily by a few people who had personal prejudices, rather than a wide consensus.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
IC B2

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,367
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,367
A good sized Tom leopard is about the size of man. If you look at the thoracic anatomy of both when on all fours, the heart and lungs lies in a similar position. Unlike ungulates that stuff the heart and lungs between the shoulder blades due to bug stomachs, the heart- lungs tend to be a bit posterior to a line that runs between the center of the shoulders.

I use 9.3 x 62 with my last remaining stash of RWS 256 H-Mantles They act like Nosler Partitions so big hole as it enters and will punch through any angle. Leopards being man sized, plucking on from a tree with a .243 I'm sure would do the the deed, but make many PH's nervous to have their clients use that. Honestly, I've advise 7mm on up, with 30-06 or .300 mag being easy to shoot and effective. I like bigger, so I use bigger.


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 860
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 860
I strongly prefer a small caliber with lots of velocity over a big bore on leopard. Use a tough bullet to limit hide damage and you’re good. If done properly the shot is the easiest you’ll have on safari.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,078
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,078
A friend of mine’s father over in South Africa was a fairly famous Leopard hunter and now my friend is an avid leopard hunter. I have hunted with him (though never for leopard) and have been to several of his bait sites for other hunters. He is always very pleased when I show up with a rifle loaded with TSX bullets but has told me if we ever hunt leopard to NOT bring TSX ammo! I don’t know why he has such strong feeling against them but he does. I’m expecting a call from him in the next few days and will try to ask him about the topic.

My completely ignorant opinion would be that a 180 hornady from a 300H&H would make a damned fine leopard round. If I ever go I will most likely use my 308 and 150 bullet of some sort. Probably an accubond.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243
G
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
G
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243
I asked my Tanzanian PH had i not brought a 400 H&H with 400gr A Frames for my light rifle how one of my 300 mags with 200gr Accubonds at max speed would be for Leopard, "Absolutely Perfect" he stated, and perfect for anything else here short of hippo and buffalo.


Trump Won!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
Looking at hides and mounts (as well as some quick Google Fu), leopards seem to be no bigger than mountain lions. Are they thicker skinned/heavier boned or something, or is their dangerous reputation what drives the common suggestion of needing a bigger round for them?

While I wouldn't endorse it on leopard by any means, I have seen several mountain lions killed easily by .22 LRs and it seems like the shots people generally get on leopard are similar to a treed mountain lion. I am just curious as to why some PHs recommend rounds from the 7mm Mag and up.



IC B3

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,222
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,222
The way they stop whitetail makes me think a 358 Winchester loaded with
Remington 200 gr round nose might be the thing, but just for my use. They seem to open quickly. That is an opinion from a non-African hunter. A Savage 99 is easy for me to shoot with a 17" barrel and a fast reload. Even I don't think I could be fast enough for the second shot.


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,604
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,604
Speed most definitively is the way to kill cats I am told (and read). My friend Allen Day is on video with Mark Sullivan executing a one shot kill on a Cape Buffalo with his 300 Win Mag (his 458 had broken the extractor). Allen related to me Sullivan allowed him to do so because Allen could shoot.

Speaking of Sullivan, I asked him about two specific kills on his videos on lion, one with a 30-378 and a 378 (both Weatherbys of course). Both cats were huge but when shot with those calibers, they curled up and shivered as if electrified. He also has many other kill shots on lions with doubles, 375s and 400s, in fact, over a dozen. None of them dropped like with the two aforementioned Weatherbys.

I also have John Sharp on video with a client using a 303 on a Buffalo, took him about seven or eight shots, all perfectly placed to knock him down. Shot placement is of course paramount, but banking on just that and using a "good enough" caliber on game is asking for trouble and that goes for any game. Like everything, this is just my opinion, based on my knowledge and guided by experience (which ain't much).


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,079
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Looking at hides and mounts (as well as some quick Google Fu), leopards seem to be no bigger than mountain lions. Are they thicker skinned/heavier boned or something, or is their dangerous reputation what drives the common suggestion of needing a bigger round for them?

While I wouldn't endorse it on leopard by any means, I have seen several mountain lions killed easily by .22 LRs and it seems like the shots people generally get on leopard are similar to a treed mountain lion. I am just curious as to why some PHs recommend rounds from the 7mm Mag and up.


Shots on baited leopards tend to be quite a bit trickier than on a treed mountain lion. The range is typically somewhat longer, though normally not more than 50 yards, because you don't want to spook a leopard coming to the bait. While the shooting is usually done from what's essentially a benchrest inside a blind, the shooter often has to sit quite a while while the leopard approaches the bait tree, and then climbs up to feed--sothere's plenty of time for the shooter to become a little nervous. The shot also normally occurs around sunset.

You may also have noticed that not only do safari hunters have different opinions on leopard rifles, even if they've never shot one, but PH's do as well. Which is why it's always interesting to read safari hunters quoting the opinion of their PH on appropriate cartridges and rifles, as if he would be the ultimate authority.

But PH's have MANY different opinions on that subject. I know this partly from knowing quite a few PHs, but the most telling instance I can remember occurred during a month-long cull hunt in South Africa, including two "shifts" of a dozen hunters. This of course meant there had to be plenty of PHs in camp, and during one beer-filled evening several of them got into a loud "discussion" about rifles and cartridges. Their opinions were all over the place, and while his may have been partly because they'd all guided in several different areas, including other countries, in my experience such differences are common even among guides who specialize in elk or brown bear hunting.




“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,834
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,834
They're not huge. An accurate 243 with a hollow point slug.


1Minute
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 379
T
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
T
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 379
In 2016, I had the good fortune to meet Lou Hallimore while I was in Zimbabwe. Mr Hallimore is the author (along with Bruce Woods) of the book "CHUI! A Guide to Hunting the African Leopard" I mention this because in his book are several quotations I feel are worth mentioning. Viz; "Volumes have been written about the selection of rifles for dangerous game." "As far as leopard is concerned, however, the choice is simple. Let the client use the rifle he's had the most experienced with, be it a .600 Nitro Express or a .270 Winchester. "Leopards are thin-skinned creatures, and if hit right don't take a lot of killing. I've personally seen them dropped with .22s (Although I don't advise this) The thing is to avoid the risk of overgunning your client. When the moment of truth arrives, a .270, .308 or .30-06 will be more than adequate providing the shot goes where it must." Skipping ahead in the narration..."As far as bullets are concerned, any proven expanding soft-point adequate for American deer will do the job. so will a solid, if put in the right place, but I prefer that a bullet used for leopard do as much damage to tissue as possible, for reasons that I think should be obvious."

I would suggest reading "CHUI"by Hallimore, and "INTO THE THORNS" by Wayne Grant.






Last edited by TSIBINDI; 04/02/21.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Looking at hides and mounts (as well as some quick Google Fu), leopards seem to be no bigger than mountain lions. Are they thicker skinned/heavier boned or something, or is their dangerous reputation what drives the common suggestion of needing a bigger round for them?

While I wouldn't endorse it on leopard by any means, I have seen several mountain lions killed easily by .22 LRs and it seems like the shots people generally get on leopard are similar to a treed mountain lion. I am just curious as to why some PHs recommend rounds from the 7mm Mag and up.


Shots on baited leopards tend to be quite a bit trickier than on a treed mountain lion. The range is typically somewhat longer, though normally not more than 50 yards, because you don't want to spook a leopard coming to the bait. While the shooting is usually done from what's essentially a benchrest inside a blind, the shooter often has to sit quite a while while the leopard approaches the bait tree, and then climbs up to feed--sothere's plenty of time for the shooter to become a little nervous. The shot also normally occurs around sunset.

You may also have noticed that not only do safari hunters have different opinions on leopard rifles, even if they've never shot one, but PH's do as well. Which is why it's always interesting to read safari hunters quoting the opinion of their PH on appropriate cartridges and rifles, as if he would be the ultimate authority.

But PH's have MANY different opinions on that subject. I know this partly from knowing quite a few PHs, but the most telling instance I can remember occurred during a month-long cull hunt in South Africa, including two "shifts" of a dozen hunters. This of course meant there had to be plenty of PHs in camp, and during one beer-filled evening several of them got into a loud "discussion" about rifles and cartridges. Their opinions were all over the place, and while his may have been partly because they'd all guided in several different areas, including other countries, in my experience such differences are common even among guides who specialize in elk or brown bear hunting.




Gotcha. Thanks for that explanation.



Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Looking at hides and mounts (as well as some quick Google Fu), leopards seem to be no bigger than mountain lions. Are they thicker skinned/heavier boned or something, or is their dangerous reputation what drives the common suggestion of needing a bigger round for them?

While I wouldn't endorse it on leopard by any means, I have seen several mountain lions killed easily by .22 LRs and it seems like the shots people generally get on leopard are similar to a treed mountain lion. I am just curious as to why some PHs recommend rounds from the 7mm Mag and up.


Shots on baited leopards tend to be quite a bit trickier than on a treed mountain lion. The range is typically somewhat longer, though normally not more than 50 yards, because you don't want to spook a leopard coming to the bait. While the shooting is usually done from what's essentially a benchrest inside a blind, the shooter often has to sit quite a while while the leopard approaches the bait tree, and then climbs up to feed--sothere's plenty of time for the shooter to become a little nervous. The shot also normally occurs around sunset.

You may also have noticed that not only do safari hunters have different opinions on leopard rifles, even if they've never shot one, but PH's do as well. Which is why it's always interesting to read safari hunters quoting the opinion of their PH on appropriate cartridges and rifles, as if he would be the ultimate authority.

But PH's have MANY different opinions on that subject. I know this partly from knowing quite a few PHs, but the most telling instance I can remember occurred during a month-long cull hunt in South Africa, including two "shifts" of a dozen hunters. This of course meant there had to be plenty of PHs in camp, and during one beer-filled evening several of them got into a loud "discussion" about rifles and cartridges. Their opinions were all over the place, and while his may have been partly because they'd all guided in several different areas, including other countries, in my experience such differences are common even among guides who specialize in elk or brown bear hunting.




Gotcha. Thanks for that explanation.



I might also add Tinman that a mountain lion, when shot ordinarily only wants to survive, like anything would. A leopard when shot ordinarily wants to use its remaining 8 lives trying to end yours.


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
So in other words, their dangerous reputation.

Makes sense.



Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 357
T
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
T
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 357
I shot both my leopard and lion with a .300 Win 180 gr TSX. I would use a 270 Win & 130 gr TSX without hesitation on a leopard. They are high strung & thin skinned and my next one will probably be with a bow.

Last edited by Tony_Soprano; 04/02/21.
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,078
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,078
I missed my call from my ph buddy this morning but after my post last night I remembered him saying he shot his first leopard with a 243. I’m also a bit puzzled by his very strong negative opinion of “X” bullets on leopards, as I have killed many many animals from 15-20 lbs to probably 1700lbs with tsx and TTSX bullets. I have absolute faith in them and personally couldn’t imagine a much better combo than a 308 with a 130 TTSX at 3100fps or so..... but again, I have killed exactly ZERO leopards.

Regarding Tony Saprano using his bow..... WOW ! That would be awesome!..... but then we would have to talk about mechanical v fixed blades! 😂😂😂

I tried to get a cape buff hunt lined out short notice a few years ago with my bow but it fell through....

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

584 members (10Glocks, 1234, 1beaver_shooter, 17CalFan, 10gaugeman, 60 invisible), 2,635 guests, and 1,072 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,191,313
Posts18,468,297
Members73,928
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.120s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9081 MB (Peak: 1.0712 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-25 15:56:09 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS