Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 41 vs .358 & 9.3 on bull moose observations:

Mainer, first let me say essayons! Love these type of wright ups and will dig into the linked ones later this evening. I read all the hunting and gun mags and my favorite authors base there knowledge on experience not just math. Heath, Aagaard, Barsness, Seyfried, that type. It seems I can only live my north country adventures vicariously through others. Keep it up.

I've had the same issue with 9.3 PRVI cases not fitting my Lee hand primer shell holder. Standard RCBS shell holders work fine so mine get primed on the Rock Chucker IV.

I know this is a dated thread, but it's why I joined the campfire. Two years ago I had Manson build a reamer for a 411-284! I built the rifle on a 1910 Mexican mauser and found a .411 barrel, of fairly heavy contour and put together a 22" barrel, fiberglass stock with a 4x Weaver post scope. I get 2230 fps with a 350 gr Hawk bullet for 4 shots with a magneto speed. I have only taken 1 mule deer with it, but it was a DRT with no bloodshot meat at 110 yards. obviously no bullet recovery. IMR 4895 is the powder, and Norma 284 brass.

A great combination of cartridge and bullet. The 225 TSX will shoot through both shoulders of a 50+ inch bull from a 338 win mag.

The one moose hunt I've been on I took my Winchester Classic Stainless in 338 Win Mag.... I have always loaded 225 Partitions and Hornady Spire points in my 338's and had great results from them on elk and bear and in Africa on everything...

I'll never forget my guide behind me calling in a moose. I walked across the trail we had just drove our ATVs up a few minutes before and I threw up my rifle and shot him in the shoulder. He dropped like a sack of potatoes and my guide was behind me yelling "Je$u$ F C...., what the hell are you shooting, I've never seen that happen before".... I had to smile as this was my first moose and I wasn't quite sure what to expect. My son had shot one the day before with his 300 Weatherby at around 250 yards and we had to follow it for about a hundred yards before we put it down.

WIth big animals like that I believe there is no such thing as too much gun or bullets, especially if you are hunting in an area where you want them down quickly. The area we were hunting was pretty boggy, so we didn't want them to wander off into the swamp...

Comen, thats a purdy darned cool wildcat yah got there. Before I created the 41 O&M (Occumpaugh and Manzo) off the 9.3x62 case, I had created a 416 wildcat off the 338 RCM case back in 2011. It was called the 416 wicked thumpa

It looked like an overgrown 358, next to a 358:

"wildcat off the 9.3 case shooting 350 grain A-frames at 2230 fps."

I like your idea, but why not just up the weight of the 9.3 to some 325 Norma Oryx bonded bullets?

I'm shooting them at 2,330 out of a 22" 1/10" twist barrel.

"Norma 325 grain Oryx, burning N550 62.0 grains, all just under an inch.
2,339
2,331
2,318 "

Su, I bet thats ah potent handload. I was getting 2310 fps with reloader 10x. It was a lever action, so didn't want to get too high up there in pressure.

The next logical step, was a 416 Ruger, to counter my never ending desire to have an original 10.75x68 Oberndorf sporting mauser. I shouldn't even type 10.75x68........or I start droolin and dreamin.....and wishin......

I like it! I didn't have to change the bolt face or the rails and it feeds great. The short mauser lets me run COAL out so I set overall at 2.885 inches. The bullet seats to the base of the neck, and 56.5 gr of IMR 4895 fills right to the base of the bullet with no compression. You have to hang onto it or the triggerguard will bite your second finger!

Given the large number of Winchester classics built for WSMs, I think the .416 WSM is a pretty ideal wildcat in this space. It's just a rebore of any .270, 300, or 325 WSM. You should be able to get 2300-2350 for a 400gr in a 24" with a full pressure but temp-insensitive load. So a 404J clone almost exactly.

Do you know of anyone doing 416 rebores?

Good question... My understanding is Jim Dubell died. JES doesn't list 416, but says to call for other bores. Similarly Wayne York doesn't list 416.

So I guess I don't know. In addition to the above Al Siegrist, John Taylor and Randy Selby would be people I'd call. If none of them do it, I'd guess one of them would would know who does (if anyone).

I think when you get down to it anyone capable of drilling and cut rifling a .416 barrel is capable of doing it if they want to.

Reboring to 41 caliber kind of limits you to which rifles have enough meat. In my case, the browning 95 in 30-06 had a medium contour. It was HEAVY.


For my 41 wildcat off the 338 RCM, the most logical choice would be a 338 or 300 RCM guide gun. The barrel countour was too heavy on those, compared to the original 338 RCM carbines. Perfect......

In my experience with the 416 caliber, I have found that 400 grain bullets at 2150 or so feet per second to be far more tolerable than the higher speeds. At the distances at which I might shoot something with a 416, the loss in feet per seconds wasn't a concern.

Longspurhnter,

I agree with you there. If I had possession of a 338 RCM guide gun, it would immediately get rebored to 41 cal, my 416 Ruger would be sold.

But the 416 Ruger has saved me from the madness and expense of time and money........of wildcats.

Never shot a moose but killed two bison, quickly, with the 9.3x62mm. Have since moved on to the .45-70.

And I just killed a huge 46” Cape Buffalo with my 9.3x66 (370 Sako Mag.) in Zambia this summer. He died after only one shot with a 286 gr. NP in the boiler room. Velocity of that round is 2,589 fps. I was a bit nervous with that round as I usually use SAFs on DG, and have never taken a Buff with that caliber, but it was the rifle and load I had in my hands. All’s well that ends well I guess. I now have much more respect for both the caliber and the bullet than I had before, and I have always respected the NP a lot…on big PG. Now I know.

Thanks Mainer, this follows all I have thought about this aspect of hunting ballistics. Take care brother, RZ.

41 caliber seems quite popular in Alaska. While living in S.Africa, a fellow did a global search and had me buy & ship him two sets of 416 Taylor dies (which apparently have a good following in Alaska). 416 Rigby & Ruger, yep heard of them, but not Taylor. Until now.

Thanks for the insight Mainer.