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Great stuff here with the cast bullets! Could there be a use for CFE-223 powder: making 730 grain bullets go fast from a .458 Win 3.6"?

I am still looking for .458 Norma brass...if anyone knows of a current source, I'd appreciate it.

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try Bashaw sports in Canada

I bought some norma brass a couple of months ago

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Yep, Norma brass for the .458 WM is "special," special enough for use with duplexed BP loads in the .458 WM+.
The Norma .458 WM brass is a couple of grains H2O bigger gross than Starline .45-2.6".
Hornady, R-P and W-W-Super brass are a couple of grains H2O gross smaller than Starline .45-2.6".
For the .45-100-2.6" Sharps Straight Winchester Throated, aka .45-70 Elko Magnum, the Starline .45-2.6" brass is perfect.
My chamber for that one is 2.620" long so I let the brass grow to 2.610", no sweat.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And the Accurate Molds 46-485N&Z brass two-fer arrived after just a little over a month wait:

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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My shoulder hurts just looking at those rounds! And I thought my 45-70 was badass!


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Hannay, no worthiness qualifications required Sir, it's all about experimenting, fun, and filling the freezers with these cool rifles.

Sir Ron, Thanks for posting the videos here, that's a hell of a fine stable of mules there.

Good stuff Fury01, Sir Ron, Hannay and me need to accompany you on a hunt for those buffalo, can tags be bought, or hunts arranged?


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Originally Posted by canuckistan
try Bashaw sports in Canada

I bought some norma brass a couple of months ago


Thanks, will try there.

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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Nice job Sir Ron, i always grab a patched bullet by the nose, dip it up to the top of patch, sit on wax paper to dry, i cut Rooster Jacket 50/50 with water, i feel it is unduly thick for paper patching purposes, i dont want to add too much o.d. to hinder dirty shooting/hunting, have never patched a loaded round but i'm sure you certainly could.

I also welcome the added durability to the patch after Rooster Jacket lube for a more superior purchase [crimp] on the bullet as well as added protection while hunting, rain, saw briars, mud, in and out of leather shell belt, in and out of off and on pickups, horses, atv's etc.

Plus, in the case of the 461 Gibbs, Selous/Seyfried experiment, some magic occurred with a simple 120 thou wad stack and Rooster Jacket, no lube cookie, the rifle shot hard, accurate and clean, really weird deal i should revisit, there can obviously 'never' be any powder contamination issues with ammunition so put together, if kept from the bottom of a lake, it would last forever.


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Sir Jerry,
You have cured me of ignorance on the use of paper patch lube. BUY A DONKEY for the great teaching.
I have finger-dipped 5 more of my PP bullets in 50:50 Rooster Jacket and water.
I like that a lot. Makes the paper jackets a lot tougher and more water proof.
Sort of glues the jackets in place and strengthens them, like shellac when it dries.

I noticed that Rooster Jacket actually penetrates Cut-Rite wax paper and marks the surface under the wax paper with whitish residue.
Rooster Jacket smells like the liquid floor wax sprayed on smooth marble or tile floors before taking the buffing machine to them to shine them.
Yes, I am an experienced janitor, my first real job at age 16 y.o.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I might as well load 5 more of my PP bullets and try them in the .458 WM+ M70,
compare to how they do in the .45-2.6" SWT.
I'll make a day of it, home on the range, soon as I get caught up on my bushhogging (picking up sticks and cutting the grass in the yard).
I also need to see to the planting (12' x 12' garden patch)
and mend the fences on the ranch (only 260' remain unfenced on two sides of the backyard).
Yes, as far as ranching goes, I am all hat and no cattle.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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LOL, You have it going on now Sir Ron, and you're most welcome, btw, i have a crazy old buddy with underground range, i brought some rooster jacket lubed paper patch loads for my 45-110 and shot them there, yes, exhaust fans were on high, after the smoke cleared i was able to find bits of paper patch confetti all over the concrete slab floor just a few feet in front of his bench, so yes, no worries about the treated patches hanging on to the bullet hindering accuracy, they will let go muy pronto.

Cant wait to see groups, or better still you standing over a dead buffalo with a 458 Win Mag+ or even Goldie.


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Good to know. Rooster Jacket does not make the paper patch stick to lead slick.
Most of the armies of the world used paper-patched bullets for many years, in all kinds of battle conditions, rain or shine.
They had their methods of water-proofing the paper patches, I have read, such as some kind of wax dip, according to Paul Matthews.

I loaded the greasers sitting directly on top of the lube cookie, BeesWax&OliveOil (BWOO), with some compression in seating the bullet.
When I pulled one of those (with kinetic puller) to load to longer COL and less compression, the BWOO Cookie or Biscuit (BWOOC or BWOOB)
came out of the case adherent to base of bullet, but when I touched it, it fell off the base of bullet.
The mildly compressed BP stayed in the case, snugged under the poker-card wad.
Pressing cold lead onto cold lube does not cause much bonding.
Still, a wax paper layer between bullet and BWOOB would not be a bad thing.

I used a Cut-Rite wax paper wad between the BWOOB and the paper-patched bullets.
I will check for downrange paper patch material when I shoot them.

From the .458 WM and .45-2.6"-SWT ballistic twins, I will eventually perfect my cast bullet techniques for application to more exotic things like:
.38/55
.40-65
.40-90
.45-70
.45-75
.50-70
.50-90
Feeding those BPCR babies properly with cast greasers and paper-patched is as natural as a mother breast feeding with two bazooms.
Smokeless and jacketed are like sticking a bottle in a baby's mouth.
Any modern rifle can do smokeless and jacketed, some can handle some cast bullets well with smokeless,
but it is most certainly best done with a .458 Winchester Magnum, the Elvis and the Muhammad Ali of rifles. Versatile, eh?


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Bob Mitchell's blog today: "Worst Case Scenarios vs Best Case… P3" at:

https://bigborefan.wordpress.com/2021/03/28/worst-case-scenarios-vs-best-case-p3/

Some images lifted from there:

The .458 WM is easy to tame down to hot .45-70 Govt. perfection with hardcast, FNGC:

[Linked Image]

Routine SAAMI .458 WM loads:

[Linked Image]

Beware of exceeding the bullet's ability with the speed demon .458 WM+:

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Fellows,
Here on the Great Plains there is no barrier or fee for roaming the grassland with 458WM in hand watching for the return of the buffalo or for the 100 LB Tusker feeding on the Verdant plain. Each spring I venture out to walk the hills and valleys ready and able to deal with whatever comes to the front sight.
If indeed you want to shoot some actual Buffalo; yes there are some folks in my neck of the woods with with herds that they do sell shoots on. I have never checked into that but could if you so wish.
Best regards,
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Sir Dennis,
Guardian of the Plains,
When on elephant & deer patrol, you are well served by the 480-gr FN at about 1800 fps.
That's overkill for deer and at that moderate velocity it might pass through an elephant if the alloy is hard enough.
Saint Elmer Keith approved of 400-gr FN at 1800 fps from a .45-70 Govt. for elk.
Saint Bill Bagwell approved of a 480-gr FN at 1300 fps from a .45-70 for bison.
Saint Finn Aagaard approved of a 500-gr FMJ solid at 2000 fps from a .458 WM for making bloody big holes through elephant.
Seems like your 480-grainer might be the happy middle ground,
about like Sir Bob's 465-grainer at 1900 fps in semi-hard alloy.

480-ish grainers of alloy hardness from 10 to 25 BHN and velocities from 1200 to 2200 fps will find great utility in the .458 WM,
from the softer and slower .459" grease-grooved to the harder and faster .461" PC-painted.
At 2200 fps, that is full Nitro Express equivalent.

Please do put an ear to the ground as our bison scout.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Wilco.

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http://thehomesteadranch.com/
Going to check with some local folks too but this site seems to have some good choices and prices to go along with it.

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Dang the dilemma now Sir Ron, a buffalo hunt with a 44-77 buffalo rifle copper penny sighted and paper patched by Saint Bagwell i've sworn to hunt with this year, even in Africa if that trip happens, or a newly put together 458 Win Mag+........?????

If the hunt comes to fruition, we may have to run a double weapons split test to get them both used and reported on right here.

Fury01, Thanks for the legwork Sir.


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I have a farmer buddy who at one time had two HUGE bulls invade one of his pastures a few winters back. He told me to shoot them as he was tired of them tearing up his fences. I thought he was kidding and he is still mad at me for not doing it. The next week the owner came and ran them back through all the fences to home. I was deer hunting at the time and had my old 35 Whelen. I had seen the tracks and assumed they were Bull Cattle so was surprised in the dark timber to see those huge shaggy heads appear when I found them in their beds.
I have promised him that I would not make the same mistake twice!

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Originally Posted by canuckistan
try Bashaw sports in Canada

I bought some norma brass a couple of months ago


Canuckistan, can you PM me? Your message box is full. I called Bashaw and would like to update you on the Norma brass. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by bcelliott
Originally Posted by canuckistan
try Bashaw sports in Canada

I bought some norma brass a couple of months ago


Canuckistan, can you PM me? Your message box is full. I called Bashaw and would like to update you on the Norma brass. Thanks.

I tried to look at my messages and it says I don't have enough topic to send private message
when I look I my message box it say 0
send me a PM concerning the update on bashaw

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