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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,054 |
It is tempting to chase down the perfect weapon for someone who doesn't take their defense seriously. But I've come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time. IMHO of course. Oh man you said it. How many people have we all seen who buy a handgun, take it out shooting one time, and think they're good. That's maddening, but it happens ALL the time. How about the ones you can't even convince to buy a handgun? I've given up on them.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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A 4” K frame is pretty hard to screw up and not understand how it works. Good enough to load, holster, and put in the nightstand. If she’ll shoot it more than once a year, might think about something else, but most women (and most men) won’t.....
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,518
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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In every generation since the '36 Patterson, some folks got to live out their lives in relative tranquility because they had one or another revolver handy when trouble came calling. I'd wager very few were steely-eyed, deadly pistoleros to whom the gun was an extension of their soul.
What they did have was basic familiarity with a firearm, the determination to fight back and the resolve to do it. Some people will attain that basic familiarity faster and more comfortably with a double action revolver. Almost anybody can learn to run it safely and shoot it well enough to discourage a miscreant inside your home or a couple of car lengths. That's all some want from a defensive handgun and if it works for them, so be it. High achievers will master it and probably move on from it. I think of the defensive revolver as a stepping stone, not a wrong turn.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
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What would you recommend to newer shooter as their first centerfire handgun. It would be mostly range gun and bedroom/home defense gun. I use to advise female friends to polymer striker-fired 9mm (glock19 size) but I'm coming to conclusion that this maybe a mistake. Most have difficulty racking the slide despite all the "tricks and techniques" described, most also won't practice with it enough to become familiar with it. While my male friends who are not gun enthusiast can rack the slide of pistols without issues, they also tend not to practice as often as they should to become familiar with said firearm. They basically take the initial handgun safety course and maybe hit the range once or twice a year.
So given the above situation, I'm re-thinking that maybe a 4" barrel midsize 357mag revolver(GP100/SW686) would be best for them. Loaded with mild 38spec for practice and maybe 38+p for self defense.
What are your guys thoughts?
The only thing I'd do different is change from GP100/686 to S&W 10 or 64. They are slightly smaller, and have fixed sights. Double action on the GP100 feels odd to me, but I rarely shoot them.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?" Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?" Deer are somewhere all the time To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 771
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 771 |
I’d recommend a shooter try both a 9mm DAO and a double action .357/38 with .38s. Let them decide which is more comfortable.
“One thorn of experience is worth a whole wilderness of warning.” - James Russell Lowell
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 306
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 306 |
I’d recommend a shooter try both a 9mm DAO and a double action .357/38 with .38s. Let them decide which is more comfortable. This, although I'd say a DA/SA with a decocker only is also a decent option. The main problem I see with polymer striker guns, especially glocks, is that, when held to loose, they tend to FTE. And yes, you even see this in a lot of bodycam footage on the internet. Most of the malfunctions in those videos are induced by limpwristing the gun during a stressful situation.
They don't make 'em like they used to
Don't tread on me
Nothing runs like a Deere
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,805
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,805 |
Take these things on a case by case basis.
For some, they may be most comfortable with a revolver and the manner in which it is very easy to check the condition of the status of on board ammunition, along with ease of loading/unloading.
For others the rather simple nature of most of the modern polymer, striker fired 9mms, that lack a manual external safety, are quite attractive, once they find one that they can get a decent grip on.
The environment in which the handgun will be stored plays a factor. Do they have kids? Exactly what condition do they intend to keep the handgun in?
These things need to be viewed on a case by case, individual basis, rather than making a blanket recommendation.
For many, a Glock 19 will be great. Point and shoot. For others a Model 15 .38 may be a better choice.
Most can learn to rack the slide. If not, move on from there. And frankly, having two revolvers would be a better choice than one in this day and age of packs of ferals. A pair of 3" GP100s loaded with wadcutters would be a solid recommendation, if a woman does not want a standard capacity auto.
My wife is not a handgun enthusiast at all. she could care less. There are .38s strategically placed for her here and there. It really probably won't make much of a difference in 90+% of the outcomes what I grab, but it might for her, so the tools are set up with her in mind.
She has her own 442, It used to belong to an NYPD detective, and now she carries it wherever she wants, along with a Combat Masterpiece. (which I borrow frequently).
I would rather she have a few .38s around than a Glock she is not familiar with, when it comes to using under pressure. But that is only one case.
Like I said, case by case basis.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,659 |
How about the ones you can't even convince to buy a handgun? I've given up on them. That I don't mind... Buying a handgun is a commitment on many levels. If someone is unwilling to make that commitment, I respect that. What I have less patience for is people who half ass things.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,452
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,452 |
"If you don't have the hand strength to cycle a slide, then a DA trigger action is going to be a big challenge also."
My mom could easily pull the double action trigger on her Ruger Speed Six till about a year before she passed away at the age of 84. She had never had the strength (or, at least, not after age 50) to rack the slide on an automatic.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,452 |
In every generation since the '36 Patterson, some folks got to live out their lives in relative tranquility because they had one or another revolver handy when trouble came calling. I'd wager very few were steely-eyed, deadly pistoleros to whom the gun was an extension of their soul.
What they did have was basic familiarity with a firearm, the determination to fight back and the resolve to do it. Some people will attain that basic familiarity faster and more comfortably with a double action revolver. Almost anybody can learn to run it safely and shoot it well enough to discourage a miscreant inside your home or a couple of car lengths. That's all some want from a defensive handgun and if it works for them, so be it. High achievers will master it and probably move on from it. I think of the defensive revolver as a stepping stone, not a wrong turn. Precisely. Well said.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,614
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
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In every generation since the '36 Patterson, some folks got to live out their lives in relative tranquility because they had one or another revolver handy when trouble came calling. I'd wager very few were steely-eyed, deadly pistoleros to whom the gun was an extension of their soul.
What they did have was basic familiarity with a firearm, the determination to fight back and the resolve to do it. Some people will attain that basic familiarity faster and more comfortably with a double action revolver. Almost anybody can learn to run it safely and shoot it well enough to discourage a miscreant inside your home or a couple of car lengths. That's all some want from a defensive handgun and if it works for them, so be it. High achievers will master it and probably move on from it. I think of the defensive revolver as a stepping stone, not a wrong turn. Not really a true statement. Seeings how the most common of arms in possession of the populace was not a revolver or rifle, it was a shotgun. Double duty for food on the table and self defense. Phil Spangenberger Although the rifle and six-gun usually take the bows for winning the West, it was the double-barreled shotgun as much as any firearm that was responsible for bringing civilization to the frontier. Many of the early pioneers invested everything they had, in order to make the overland trek out West, leaving little money for weaponry. The best and certainly one of the most economical and versatile firearms for hunting and defense in a wild, hostile land was the twin-barreled scattergun. Whether muzzle loader or breech-loading cartridge gun, many thousands of shotguns from a variety of makers and countries were the mainstay of settlers, lawmen, express companies, Native Americans, soldiers, ranchers and hunters. Gunmen like Indian Territory lawman Heck Thomas and gambler John H. “Doc” Holiday also used scatterguns. Virtually everyone, good or bad, who needed a weapon recognized the value of the old side by side.
Swifty
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 18,075
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So given the above situation, I'm re-thinking that maybe a 4" barrel midsize 357mag revolver(GP100/SW686) would be best for them. Loaded with mild 38spec for practice and maybe 38+p for self defense.
Perfect Agreed! And you can practice ball and dummy with them to work on their trigger technique. Mike
God, Family, and Country. NRA Endowment Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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[b]In every generation since the '36 Patterson, some folks got to live out their lives in relative tranquility because they had one or another revolver handy when trouble came calling. I'd wager very few were steely-eyed, deadly pistoleros to whom the gun was an extension of their soul.
What they did have was basic familiarity with a firearm, the determination to fight back and the resolve to do it.[/b] Some people will attain that basic familiarity faster and more comfortably with a double action revolver. Almost anybody can learn to run it safely and shoot it well enough to discourage a miscreant inside your home or a couple of car lengths. That's all some want from a defensive handgun and if it works for them, so be it. High achievers will master it and probably move on from it. I think of the defensive revolver as a stepping stone, not a wrong turn. Not really a true statement. Seeings how the most common of arms in possession of the populace was not a revolver or rifle, it was a shotgun. Double duty for food on the table and self defense. Phil Spangenberger Although the rifle and six-gun usually take the bows for winning the West, it was the double-barreled shotgun as much as any firearm that was responsible for bringing civilization to the frontier. Many of the early pioneers invested everything they had, in order to make the overland trek out West, leaving little money for weaponry. The best and certainly one of the most economical and versatile firearms for hunting and defense in a wild, hostile land was the twin-barreled scattergun. Whether muzzle loader or breech-loading cartridge gun, many thousands of shotguns from a variety of makers and countries were the mainstay of settlers, lawmen, express companies, Native Americans, soldiers, ranchers and hunters. Gunmen like Indian Territory lawman Heck Thomas and gambler John H. “Doc” Holiday also used scatterguns. Virtually everyone, good or bad, who needed a weapon recognized the value of the old side by side. So you're saying that some people, from every generation since that Patterson, didn't successfully defend themselves with revolvers?
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,856
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Now that I've read all these posts, I think the answer might be that perhaps they shouldn't own a handgun if they're not going to practice and become familiar with it?
BINGO
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,452
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Now that I've read all these posts, I think the answer might be that perhaps they shouldn't own a handgun if they're not going to practice and become familiar with it?
BINGO As someone mentioned already, for most of the 19th, 20th Century, and beyond, lots of Americans have acquired handguns, learned their basic function, maybe shot them a couple of times, kept them loaded in a sock drawer, and have used them to thwart crimes against them in their homes. So long as you know how to safely handle it, it's an advantage to have one in most cases, vs not having one.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It's a personal thing, but a revolver is a very good platform to learn the "basics" of handgun shooting. Once that is mastered (to what ever degree) then you can go the the auto's and their separate issues that a revolver does not have.
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