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Originally Posted by Jiveturkey
Adam was without sin, but sin was in the garden already. How else could he have sinned unless the enemy ( lucifer) was there to tempt?


Well you confirm Chuck doesn't know Bible
and God put Lucifer in the garden.


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Jesus came to establish the church as it was always intended. During his time the enemy of his and the church were the Pharisees. We still see them in some form today. Many of you have posted bad experiences with church people and it's the same as what Christ confronted many times. It's no reason to throw the church out the window though. Was it outrageous for the Catholic church to abuse children. Yes x10000 but they are not following the path Christ set forth. Is it wrong for clergy of any sort to do as they please with no regard to God's word or by allowing themselves to be a stumbling block to fellow man. Yes!

James 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

That part of keeping yourself unspotted form the world is key, so is the rest but if we all approach our lives in a way that we don't turn anyone away from God the world is better off. That's not to say some won't be offended but it's because they made choices and decisions we can't help. The true church is good and useful. The church of the Pharisees is not. Both exist today. In fact Jesus cautioned his disciples to be wary of them, the Pharisees. He never condemned gathering together to worship though. Everyone can have a role to fill in this if they will.

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Who put you here?


Romans 5:1
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The question is why make Adam- Eve
so naive and also put the crafty devil
there to trick them...doesn't seem like
a loving act.

Would you let your naive children play
in brush where you put a rattlesnake ?


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Originally Posted by Jiveturkey
Who put you here?


He won’t answer a direct question he’ll redirect constantly.

You’re attempting to nail the proverbial jello to the wall.

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Originally Posted by efw
Originally Posted by Jiveturkey
Who put you here?


He won’t answer a direct question he’ll redirect constantly. .


You just want folks to agree with your
bronze age mythology.


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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by efw
Originally Posted by Jiveturkey
Who put you here?


He won’t answer a direct question he’ll redirect constantly. .


You just want folks to agree with your
bronze age mythology.


Nope there are nonbelievers here who I consider friends and who make a practice of civil, meaningful conversation.

Others, you among them, like to sound smart and score points by being obtuse. Not worth engaging.

But for Jiveturkeys sake I just did anyway

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Originally Posted by efw


Nope there are nonbelievers here who I consider friends and who make a practice of civil, meaningful conversation.

Others, you among them, like to sound smart and score points by being obtuse. Not worth engaging.


Promoting bronze age mythology as "truth"
is neither smart nor meaningful.

And telling folks they gunna burn in hell
for not believing is trying to score points.

Find a Christian and youve found a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by efw

Not worth engaging.


Obviously I am worth engaging ...LoL

Anyway keep lying to yourself.


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Where I grew up everyone went to church on Sunday and I mean everyone. Then the men would hit the clubs and get hammered drunk. The woman would collect at different homes and exchange gossip and lies about most any other woman who were not part of their group. Eventually the men would drive home and most ended up smacking around their wives.
But by God they all claimed they were faithful Christians. The priests usually stayed at church diddling alter boys till they had enough then they would hit a bar or two to talk with their clan. They would do this long enough until someone finally invited them home for dinner.


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
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Quote
How do you fulfill the 1st Great Commandment?
The Pharisees thought it was by following legalistic rules and regulations and rituals. They had filthy hearts, but hey...at least they had clean hands, and clean cups. They couldn’t help support their aging parents financially because, hey...their money was ‘dedicated to God’ (even though the Pharisees could continue to use it themselves).

Others, like Jesus, think that ‘everything’ in the Law and the Prophets is covered by loving God and loving others. Period. Not 600 and something legalistic rules and regulations and rituals. And then He stepped it up...a “new command” was given by Him...”Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” It’s the One Commandment; not 600 and something, not even 10...One.

Love for God is demonstrated, authenticated, and validated by one’s love for others. Others that God also loves, others that Jesus also died for.


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Hey antlers,

that is one Beautiful church you have there.

Did it cost the parishioners much to build?

I bet anyone can attend too.

wink


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Our society gets more Godless every day. I thought it was rather obvious by the that the majority of folks aren't interested in God or Christianity. America has a heart problem, a human condition problem.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by Valsdad
Hey antlers, that is one Beautiful church you have there. Did it cost the parishioners much to build? I bet anyone can attend too. wink
True and kind words my friend. The sermon was titled “O Lord, how manifold are thy works!” Didn’t cost the parishioners a dime to build, and ALL are welcome to attend.


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Preachers aren't alarmed because tithes can be sent in by internet!!


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Originally Posted by Starman
The question is why make Adam- Eve
so naive and also put the crafty devil
there to trick them...doesn't seem like
a loving act.

Would you let your naive children play
in brush where you put a rattlesnake ?


Do you think God was surprised by man’s sin? He had the antidote to the snake’s poison. It’s still available to you, but your participation is required. Here’s hoping you accept.

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Originally Posted by efw
I was raised in a very legalistic fundamentalist church where they had all sorts of rules that didn’t come from the Bible BUT I also had a group of deeply gracious, loving, and hospitable group around me who represented Christianity well. A particular individual who was legalistic, pompous, and off-putting was a pastor; another who was particularly gracious and kind was also a minister.

That is, for me people are people no matter where I go. For me and my household the observances and rites of collective worship... and that includes putting up with the @$$holes (I know you’ll all be dumbfounded, but at times that includes me) are part and parcel to being in the “called out community” (ecclesia in Greek translated church in NT) and all are used by God to form us into the image His Son.

I’ve got men around me who correct me and adults who take my kids aside and reinforce the teachings of the community so I’m not alone in parenting. Women come around my wife and help her when she has difficulties. The men with whom I have deer camp are mostly brothers from my congregation; some are from other congregations and a couple aren’t from any.

Church is the place that God has ordained that we as believers sharpen one another. That means putting up with crap. I put up with others’ and they mine.

Just like in the rest of life I get returns commensurate with the investment. As long as I keep in perspective that my $h!t stinks just as much as everyone else’s I’m ok.

Just my take.



This is absolutely spot on!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If entering into a building that is dedicated to the worship and teaching of God isn't for you that's your business but there's a few things I do question. How many missionaries have you supported? How do you expect the lost sinner that has not teaching in regard to the Bible to hear the truth if you've chosen to hide your light under a basket? How are we going to support the ongoing outreach through speaking, writing or otherwise? Do you tithe? There may be other questions I'm not arguing about church attendance but if everyone quit going who is carrying the torch? Are you?

I also want it to be known that my post isn't a defense of the Catholic church as some here have had a problem with. As far as I'm concerned they are not a Bible based doctrine and it's no wonder they have allowed what they have.


I don't attend a church. Once I heard a church was having difficulty so I started sending money anonymously. A man came to my company looking for a job. He happened to be the son of the pastor of above church. I did not mention I was helping his church. He told his dad about me, the religious fantastic who doesn't go to church.

This ol' boy came to visit. He condemned me for not giving to God's work. I chuckled but said nothing. The building does not make one a Christian.


Good post.

In my old age I seem to remember something about "wherever two or more of you are gathered in God's name."

OTOH if people didn't go to church, which has Sunday schools, where would the kids learn about the Bible to begin with?


Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.

Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Originally Posted by WMR
Originally Posted by Starman
The question is why make Adam- Eve
so naive and also put the crafty devil
there to trick them...doesn't seem like
a loving act.

Would you let your naive children play
in brush where you put a rattlesnake ?


Do you think God was surprised by man’s sin? He had the antidote to the snake’s poison. It’s still available to you, but your participation is required. Here’s hoping you accept.


OK, so I take it you would let your kids play
where you put a rattlesnake... coz you got
vials of antivenin on hand...thanks for sharing
your stupid - explains much about your 'faith'..LoL.




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I doubt God tailored his plan to what I would do under some scenario you imagined. Believe or not, you certainly are free to choose. Why the insults? Are you just angry or are you serving another master?

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Hey antlers, that is one Beautiful church you have there. Did it cost the parishioners much to build? I bet anyone can attend too. wink
True and kind words my friend. The sermon was titled “O Lord, how manifold are thy works!” Didn’t cost the parishioners a dime to build, and ALL are welcome to attend.


Under a full moon one night in October 1993 while taking a walk in the woods was when God reached my soul. That was after not being in church for many years. Someday though I won't be able to take those walks and you won't either my friend. It might be nice to go to church some then. God can be anywhere when He is welcome. That place where I got saved is on property I now own and live on. Every time I am near there I remember that night. Sometimes I crave solitude and other times I like being around some of the folks in my church. Notice I said "some". As Grandpa used to say "some people are just hard to like". I do try though and he did too.

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