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Joined: Mar 2009
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Think I’ll get a Beretta instead of Benelli.

I’ll use it for clays and upland mainly. Trying to decide between the A400 Xplor and Xplor Unico. Anyone have the Kick off? I’ve read both good and bad, the bad being cheek slap and malfunctions. I’m not recoil sensitive but if it’s nice I’d get it.

Thanks

FWIW I’ve been shooting a Browning 525 SC
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I had an A 400 with kick off. Good enough gun. I sold it because the kick off stock beat the chit out of my cheek. The last " moving " stock shotgun I will own. JMO.

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The KO systems work very well. I have to raise the comb up to max height with the shim between the stock and the action, but once I do that, an A400 with the KO is the softest recoiling shotgun I have ever shot.

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Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
The KO systems work very well. I have to raise the comb up to max height with the shim between the stock and the action, but once I do that, an A400 with the KO is the softest recoiling shotgun I have ever shot.


That didn’t change your POI? You had to adjust to stop the cheek slap or never had a problem with it?


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Like I said I had one and it was a good gun. POA and POI were correct. I bought it for duck and goose hunting. With 3" waterfowl loads I didn't like the cheek slap. Prior to buying mine I had shot a friend's A400 non kick off. I made a mistake buying mine with kick off. JMO.

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There are some models with the kick off system in the stock not the butt. Solves the cheek slide issue if that bothers one

Last edited by ldholton; 04/10/21.
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Originally Posted by SandBilly
Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
The KO systems work very well. I have to raise the comb up to max height with the shim between the stock and the action, but once I do that, an A400 with the KO is the softest recoiling shotgun I have ever shot.


That didn’t change your POI? You had to adjust to stop the cheek slap or never had a problem with it?


I have to use the highest setting to keep from shooting low, but it does have the side-benefit of reducing face-slap. I did not have a problem with face-slap with the "medium" setting the guns usually come set on, but I might if I had gone to the lowest setting, i. e., the one with the most drop.

Last edited by RimfireArtist; 04/10/21.
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Originally Posted by saskfox
Like I said I had one and it was a good gun. POA and POI were correct. I bought it for duck and goose hunting. With 3" waterfowl loads I didn't like the cheek slap. Prior to buying mine I had shot a friend's A400 non kick off. I made a mistake buying mine with kick off. JMO.


The KO was not your problem. There are several things that cause/contribute to face-slap. The biggest culprits are:

Big loads
Fast loads
Light gun
Light barrel
Stocks with drop (the more, the worse)
Stocks with cast off (away from the face -- the more, the worse)
Butts with too little, or too much, pitch
Pressing the cheekbone into the comb when shooting (this is the #1 cause)
Weak hands/arms or a loose grip

I have both kinds of KO system and with all else of the above avoided I can shoot the meanest loads out there and still not get face-slap. I have a bad neck, so shooting many heavy loads hurts that, but it is not as bad as with any other shotgun. Even my SX-1's with considerable weight added do not attenuate recoil the way my Berettas w/ KO do.

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I had an A400 Xtreme Plus synthetic stock 3.5" shotgun with the kick-off right behind the pistol grip. Didn't think it was very good in reducing recoil with target loads. Sold the gun as it would not repeat my light 7/8 oz skeet loads and I wasn't a waterfowl hunter. My buddy's identical shotgun would shoot my light loads, but even after 700 rounds mine was still balky.

I bought an A400 Xcel Black Sporting 4 months ago. It has the kick-off between the wood stock and the recoil pad. It seems to absorb recoil much better than the Xtreme Plus did, probably a better tuned kick-off for target loads. It eats up all my light reloads...even a 3/4 oz load a friend made for skeet. The wood stock design on the Xcel is superior for no face slap my vs the synthetic stock on the Xtreme+. My two cents and recent experience.

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Thanks for all the info. 👍


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Top late now, but there are different springs that are part of the gas bleed mechanism. A change probably would have solved your light load reliability issue..

Last edited by battue; 04/10/21.

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I'm aware of the Cole spring packages, but I did not like the stock design on the Xtreme+. Really glad I got the sporting version with the smaller gas piston and Kick-off at the rear of the stock.

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Have one with it in the rear and they are soft shooters.


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The Xcel black edition is pricey.


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Originally Posted by Kurt52
I had an A400 Xtreme Plus synthetic stock 3.5" shotgun with the kick-off right behind the pistol grip. Didn't think it was very good in reducing recoil with target loads. Sold the gun as it would not repeat my light 7/8 oz skeet loads and I wasn't a waterfowl hunter. My buddy's identical shotgun would shoot my light loads, but even after 700 rounds mine was still balky.

I bought an A400 Xcel Black Sporting 4 months ago. It has the kick-off between the wood stock and the recoil pad. It seems to absorb recoil much better than the Xtreme Plus did, probably a better tuned kick-off for target loads. It eats up all my light reloads...even a 3/4 oz load a friend made for skeet. The wood stock design on the Xcel is superior for no face slap my vs the synthetic stock on the Xtreme+. My two cents and recent experience.


I'm guessing the difference was that they have to put a much stronger spring in the 3.5" chambered guns. Trying to shoot light loads in one of those is asking for failure.

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Rimfire Artist , "I'm guessing the difference was that they have to put a much stronger spring in the 3.5" chambered guns. Trying to shoot light loads in one of those is asking for failure."

The Kick-off recoil springs certainly felt stiffer to me in the Xtreme+ versus the Xcel target gun, but I never checked the difference as I sold the Xtreme+ before I the Xcel target gun came in.

As per the spring on the front of the gas piston, when you get a variety of custom springs to tune your poorly ejecting auto, you typically use a stiffer spring than stock to make it eject properly. The stiffer spring will hold the gas bleed system closed or closed longer so more gas goes into working the action....ejecting the fired case and reloading the gun with another cartridge....or what even takes more gas is to open the action fully so the bolt stays open after the last round is fired. A weaker spring will bleed more gas forward where it is wasted energy...but will prevent damage to the operating mechanism of the semi-auto from being over-pressured (over gassed).

The maximum pressure for a 12 ga 3.5" shell is 14,000 psi. For all shorter 12 ga shells, it's only 11,500 psi. I'd never buy another 12 ga with a 3-1/2" chamber for my use. I'm not a waterfowl hunter, just a target shooter when using a 12 ga and mostly shoot 7/8 or 1 oz light target reloads. I do my upland hunting behind our Vizsla with my 16 and 20 ga SxS doubles so the 12s never see field time.

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I have a A400 Xcel sporting with kickoff and had no issues with cheek slap but I'm not shooting 3" shells out of it either. The A400 is actually a very soft shooting shotgun, I think if you got it with no kick off it would still be a very soft shooting gun for you if your shooting a 525 now and it doesn't bother you. I have a Beretta 686 and I can shoot that one all day without it bothering me so the A400 with kickoff is nothing to shoot.


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