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I have a 19 Badger which is the 30 Carbine case necked down to 19 caliber. James Calhoon has contracted with Sierra bullets to provide him with 2 weights of bullets, 28 & 32 grains. I get 3500 FPS and no recoil. It’s a fun little round.
I wonder if this has been considered with the 20 caliber. I would think a 32 grain VMAX would be a load of fun on a prairie dog town. Not much powder but really good velocity. certainly enough to shoot out to 350 yards.

Any thoughts here or has this already been done?


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My only 20 is a 20 practical I had Jim Borden build for me 6-7 years ago. Talk about a freaking laser beam of death! My first two groups were .07 and .09”.....yes the decimal is in the right place. 39 blitzkings 8208 and fed brass. It shoots as good in the wind as my 22-250 and recoils like a 223 so I can see my misses and correct on the follow up shot IF I miss call the wind. Last year I shot three dogs off the same mound at a lasered 720 yards with three consecutive shots and two were pups. I’d say it blows pdogs up about like a 223 but not as bad as a 22-250. I think it might be my new favorite pdog rifle.

I think a 32gr bullet at 3500 and zero recoil would be awesome as well. My second favorite pdog gun might be a Ruger 1 in 22 hornet and 40gr polymer tipped bullets at 3100. I can’t imagine that your combo wouldn’t be even better. Hell..... just when I thought I had all the bases covered.... might have to get another #1 and build something like you mentioned.

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I own a 204 Ruger and Searching my files I can't fine a 20 that's built on a 30 Carbine. I made this up so you can get an idea what it might look like and do.

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Not trying to hijack, just offering another thought.

Anybody doing anything with the .20 caliber on a 22 Hornet case?


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There are a number of 20's made on the Hornet case. 20 Hornet BDR, 20 Mink, and a number of others.

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I have a couple 20 Practicals, one on a AR platform that I won in a shooting match and I liked the cartridge enough that I built a 20P on a bolt action that goes out a lot.

I didn't like the AR for the fact that I had to hunt for brass out in the field and it is hard enough to make that I rebarreled the AR to 223.

The 20P on the bolt is a superb rifle for hunting coyotes flat shootig and I can hold on fur to 300 yards and save the pelts. Mine is ust a little heavier than I like so I have another in the works that will be built on a Rem 600 with a 20" sporter barrel.

Savage action 20P Athlon 2-12x40


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I have a couple 20 Practicals, one on a AR platform that I won in a shooting match and I liked the cartridge enough that I built a 20P on a bolt action that goes out a lot.

I didn't like the AR for the fact that I had to hunt for brass out in the field and it is hard enough to make that I rebarreled the AR to 223.

The 20P on the bolt is a superb rifle for hunting coyotes flat shootig and I can hold on fur to 300 yards and save the pelts. Mine is ust a little heavier than I like so I have another in the works that will be built on a Rem 600 with a 20" sporter barrel.

Savage action 20P Athlon 2-12x40
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I read somewhere about the 327 federal magnum necked down to 20 caliber. Lost fewer cases than using the 357 case.
Don’t know why the 20 caliber/5mm isn’t more popular than it is in a small case.


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Thanks for all that info Mick.


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Originally Posted by ruffcutt
I read somewhere about the 327 federal magnum necked down to 20 caliber. Lost fewer cases than using the 357 case.
Don’t know why the 20 caliber/5mm isn’t more popular than it is in a small case.

That sounds interesting. Any word on performance?


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OSU Sig: I "gave up" on "wildcats" about 20 years ago!
The expense these days of riflesmithing work, custom barrels/chambering and custom dies no longer (in my experience) justifies the money and time wasted on obtaining them!
I still own several "wildcat" Varmint Rifles that i had built up - but no longer have any interest in bringing them on-line.
I get outstanding accuracy and performance from Rifles I buy off the shelf and from private people.
I currently own and shoot 10 (ten) Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger and each and every one of them (9 of them at least as the tenth is being "geared up" right now!) gives very good to excellent plus accuracy!
Nope, I would not even consider a "wildcat" anymore - especially now in this latest "difficulty" we find in obtaining services/components.
My monies can be directed/used/spent in more appropriate and better ways anymore.
But I do remember the interest and excitement I had when I used to waste money on going for a "wildcat" - if you think you can enjoy your "wild-catting" more than simply buying a factory Cooper in an appropriate caliber for your uses, I say good luck and enjoy.
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Originally Posted by OSU_Sig
Originally Posted by ruffcutt
I read somewhere about the 327 federal magnum necked down to 20 caliber. Lost fewer cases than using the 357 case.
Don’t know why the 20 caliber/5mm isn’t more popular than it is in a small case.

That sounds interesting. Any word on performance?

I believe I read about it over on saubier.com. I did a quick google search but that didn’t turn up what I was looking for.


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There is already the 20 Garin, the Garin cartridges are based the 30 carbine case - Cooper Firearms builds rifles chambered for them.

http://www.cartridgecollector.net/20-garin

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19121

https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/dvds-and-books/407-garin-sure-stirke-system-book.html

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For those of you with a 20 practical does it offer any radical differences over the .204 Ruger?


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I don't have the Practical but think quality brass and/or brass availability are the main draw.


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Not a lot of difference in volume. If loaded with the same bullets there's not a lot difference in FPS either. The 204 is the winner as far as volume goes.

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Originally Posted by drover
There is already the 20 Garin, the Garin cartridges are based the 30 carbine case - Cooper Firearms builds rifles chambered for them.

http://www.cartridgecollector.net/20-garin

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19121

https://pacifictoolandgauge.com/dvds-and-books/407-garin-sure-stirke-system-book.html

drover

thanks for the info. Much appreciated.


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Originally Posted by ingwe
For those of you with a 20 practical does it offer any radical differences over the .204 Ruger?



Tom, I took a 204 barrel off the action, on the one I built...

Two reason I built it...

1. brass availability, I had plenty of 223 range pick up brass, almost an endless supply courtesy of OSP, when they train, they just leave it.. because it walks away by the next morning... its easy to form...you are just taking the neck down to 20 caliber...

2. velocity was pretty much spot on vs the 204, in most instance.. if it was a little behind, it wasn't by much..

other key points, is I only had to buy a $20 die, the Hornady 20 caliber general purpose die, that can be set up to neck size any cartridge to 20 cal...they offer the same type dies in other calibers... I have one of each in 6.5 and 30 cal also..

mine was on a Model 77 Mk 2 short action... I used a bench rest follower, because I am shooting stationary off a 4 Runner Hood... single shot each time..
I run 32 gr Vmax and 24 gr NTX Lead free bullets, and the occasional 26 gr Varrmint Grenade from Barnes...

I don't run the 40 grain 20 cal bullets, as for that, I just run a 40 grain Vmax in the 223....

The 223 die with the spindle out can be used as a body die, and the 223 seating die works on the 20 Practical with no issues...

I start sizing a 223 case down first time using the 204 F/L die , to 20 cal, and finish with the above mentioned Hornady 20 cal die...

right now, I am finding 20 cal and 17 cal v max bullets on shelves, and am setting pretty on 22 cal bullets from A to Z...

I look at the 20 Practical and the 17 Fireball.. as just in case rifles right now....


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Originally Posted by ingwe
For those of you with a 20 practical does it offer any radical differences over the .204 Ruger?


I've had both......still have my 2nd Practical

I'd say brass is the biggest advantage..

Dies are simple....Redding bushing dies for the 223......

I use a Forster 223 BR seater

Similar velocities as the 204R


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Theres alot to like with a 20 Prac.

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I built a 20 practical and liked it so much I built a second one, I took my 204 ruger barrel off and stuck it in the closet. All the reasons have been listed already, chiefly for me was easy and cheap brass availability. I like 39 and 40 grain bullets out of an 11 twist, it'll basically do anything a 22-250 will on varmints with a lot less powder and recoil.

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I also have 2 20Ps. One's an AR with a 18" barrel and one's a rebarreled RAR. Both love the 35gr Bergers over H4895 and are super on fur. Unlike Erich though I don't bother even looking for my brass when hunting with the 20P AR. One pass of LC brass though a Redding FL 223 bushing die and I'm ready to load more 20P. cheap and easy.


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Originally Posted by bbassi
I also have 2 20Ps. One's an AR with a 18" barrel and one's a rebarreled RAR. Both love the 35gr Bergers over H4895 and are super on fur. Unlike Erich though I don't bother even looking for my brass when hunting with the 20P AR. One pass of LC brass though a Redding FL 223 bushing die and I'm ready to load more 20P. cheap and easy.

THIS ^^^^

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I recently got a Cooper in 20 VarTarg. I shoot alot of 204R and 17 HH. I am liking The VT very much Just necking 221 Fireball down to .204. Can see every hit and miss.


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Do any of these 3 20 calibers put you in an overbore situation?

Am I right on the statements below?

204 Ruger is built off the 222 Remington Magnum case.

20 Practical is built off the 223 Remington case ?

20 Tactical is built off the ?

20 Vartarg is build off the 221 Fireball case?


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I'm pretty sure the 20 Tac is off the 223 Rem. side by side comparison with the practical, there isn't much difference.

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20 VarTarg .


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Link......lots of 20 cal info...........

I got the bug in 2007....with the 20 PT & 20 VT

Then the 20-222

Pac Nor is now building me a new 20 PT 10 twist/3 groove--28" long

Threaded for large shank Savage target action

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/20caliber/


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Thank you for the link tikkanut.

Mick, if I understand it correctly, one is just a neck downed 223 and the other has the shoulder changed to 30 degrees.


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I see it the way you do.

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Thank you for your posts here. I suspect there was some time involved in preparing the drawings for posting. Much appreciated.


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you're welcome

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This link may help you some -

https://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

drover


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Thanks Drover. tikkanut had also posted that link. You are right in that there is some good information there.


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Originally Posted by MickinColo
I'm pretty sure the 20 Tac is off the 223 Rem. side by side comparison with the practical, there isn't much difference.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


difference in the Tactical and Practical, is just shoulder angle.


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Thanks John. I felt like that was right but wasn't absolutely sure.


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What is th 20 Vartarg? A friend of mine has one.

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Originally Posted by vixen
What is th 20 Vartarg? A friend of mine has one.


The 20 Vartarg is a version of a 20 caliber based on the 221 Remington fireball case. scroll up and see the drawings.

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Originally Posted by vixen
What is th 20 Vartarg? A friend of mine has one.

A 221 fireball necked down to 20 cal with the shoulder moved forward to 30 deg.

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Bumping this thread to the top of the page. Great information.


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The relation of the 204 to the 222 Rem Mag is about the same as the 20 Tactical to the 223. The body of the 222 Rem Mag is slightly straightened, shoulder moved forward and the shoulder changed to 30 degrees. Pretty much the 204 could be called the 20-222 Rem Mag Improved(not AI'd)


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Just a note....I'm gonna have a Savage small shank Pac Nor barrel F/S soon...1" at muzzle

20 Vartarg/12 twist....SS SM....11* crown....previous chamber was 20 Practical

Finished length will be 24" (ish) Has always been a good barrel....

Rounds out ? Not sure.......6K maybe


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I have an AR in the 20 practical, and a Savage 12 re-barreled to it. The speeds are the same, the powder capacities are so close, I'll call them the same. My decision to wade into the wildcat game was based on brass alone! I have gobs of 223 brass that's easily necked down. At the time, I couldn't get my hands on 204 brass to feed my Remington R-15 chambered in 204. Always thought it would be "cool" to try the wildcats, and I've sold the R-15 in favor of the 20 practical loads. But to answer the question, NO, there's not any radical advantage at all.


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I really like my Cooper Model 38 in 20 Vartarg. I'll be getting a Model 21 back from Cooper Monday after a rebarrel to 20 Vartarg also.


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Originally Posted by OSU_Sig
Thanks John. I felt like that was right but wasn't absolutely sure.


Cliff, I know this is an older thread, but since you were the one who posted this, after my comment ahead of it...

I picked up a Hornady Universal 20 caliber neck sizing die... quite a while ago... the price was like $20. or less...

To make a 20 Practical, I just take a 223 case, run it thru that die and I've got a 20 Practical...

That is all I bought. I full length size with the 223 with the spindle removed. I also use the 223 seating die to seat 20 caliber bullets...


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John, that seems too easy. What am I missing?


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Redding offers the more expensive FL or neck bushing dies--for example

The most common 20 calibers...20 Vartarg--20 Practical---20-222.. that I use anyhow

Use a 221 FB..223 Rem..or the ole 222 Rem & a bushing die with a .227" -.230" bushing

FL or neck size & load ammo...seat bullets with the parent cartridge die..simple......or 'Practical'

The 20 Tactical is another......but never got involved with it...Along with many others

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/20caliber/


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Originally Posted by OSU_Sig
John, that seems too easy. What am I missing?
Probably my simple Hillbilly mechanics, type of brain...

I made up the original case that way.... then sent it to the gunsmith and told him to make the barrel fit this dummy cartridge...

Guess you'd call that thinking ahead...

I've done that on several cartridges I've had Custom Barrels put on for me.... each gunsmith told me they wished every customer would do it that way..
made their lives a lot simpler...

I'm pretty good at coming up with simple solutions to problems most of the time...if I can keep from trying to overthink it... at least.

who knows if it would chamber in another 20 Practical... but then I'm not shooting someone else's 20 Practical...


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Originally Posted by drover
This link may help you some -

https://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

drover

Always had mild curiosity about about a BR case necked down to 20 caliber, but I've got a couple 204's and it never really got past the Curiosity level.

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Originally Posted by ldholton
Originally Posted by drover
This link may help you some -

https://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

drover

Always had mild curiosity about about a BR case necked down to 20 caliber, but I've got a couple 204's and it never really got past the Curiosity level.


I did a 20 BRX a few years back, I couldnt find anything to complain about?

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Originally Posted by ldholton
Originally Posted by drover
This link may help you some -

https://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

drover

Always had mild curiosity about about a BR case necked down to 20 caliber, but I've got a couple 204's and it never really got past the Curiosity level.




built a 20 BR Pac Npr -----9 twist to run 55 Bergers

P/dogs died no faster..........

that barrel is now a 20-222 & runs 40 V Max......

Fuggin lazer.......


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Originally Posted by AKA_Spook
Originally Posted by ldholton
Originally Posted by drover
This link may help you some -

https://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

drover

Always had mild curiosity about about a BR case necked down to 20 caliber, but I've got a couple 204's and it never really got past the Curiosity level.


I did a 20 BRX a few years back, I couldnt find anything to complain about?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


What a cool looking round.. I could be talked into one of those, on just that finished pic alone....

looks fast just sitting there....


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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