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Originally Posted by IZH27
That is our heritage. In my opinion we need to adopt the spirit of the Renaissance and reformation and call these religions that front as Christianity exactly what they are. False.

Mind giving us a list of the denominations you consider false?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antlers
Is it possible that the decline in society is the reason for the decline in church attendance...?
I believe they feed off one another. As usual, life is complicated and there are few simple answers.

Plus we are in the end times. The flow of history is tough to overcome.


End times?

Christians been claiming that for 2000 years.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antlers
Is it possible that the decline in society is the reason for the decline in church attendance...?
I believe they feed off one another. As usual, life is complicated and there are few simple answers.

Plus we are in the end times. The flow of history is tough to overcome.


End times?

Christians been claiming that for 2000 years.


Yup ..... And philistines have been mocking the coming end times for just as long.

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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Haven't read the whole thread, didn't want to go down that rabbit hole again. But to opine on the original question, the decline in church attendance can mean nothing good for our society. When I was growing up, it seemed just about everyone attended church and society was on the whole much more well-behaved and civil. Being in church made you part of a community, and there were behavioral expectations that one felt compelled to meet; a sort of peer pressure, if you will. I am sure there were some, perhaps many, who simply warmed the pews and whose behavior outside of church was, shall we say, less than exemplary. But the church served to keep a lid on the sinful impulses that we all have. That lid, to the extent that it is still in place, is not as tight as it used to be and we see the result everywhere around us. And I do believe that regular church attendance might eventually have brought some into a real belief in Christ. It did for me.

I am not saying that just because someone doesn't attend church they are a bad person; I am saying that in my opinion the more people that a society has attending church, the fewer bad people it will have.




Let's take a look at the countries with highest Church attendance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance

1. Nigeria.
2. Zambia
3. Haiti
4. Tanzania
5. Central African Republic
6. Chad
7. Liberia
8. Mozambique
9. Uganda
10. Kenya
11. Ethiopia
12. Cameroon
13. Guatemala
14. Democratic Republic of the Congo
15. Rwanda

The first civilized country on the list is Japan, at 50% of the population who attends at least weekly.

Since you believe Church attendance makes people behave so well, let me know which of those 15 countries listed above you will move to and leave you door unlocked at night.



Last edited by antelope_sniper; 04/10/21.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by IZH27
That is our heritage. In my opinion we need to adopt the spirit of the Renaissance and reformation and call these religions that front as Christianity exactly what they are. False.

Mind giving us a list of the denominations you consider false?




Not Publicly AS. Keyboards would stick to fingers from the heat of typing if I did.

It isn’t hard figure out a bunch of them based on my comments in that post. All that is needed is to Wikipedia Aimee Semple McPherson and the people that influenced her.

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Originally Posted by wabigoon
The country, North America, needs a good revival!


With all due respect look up a few articles on Charles Finney and revivalism. Such meeting make a lot of people feel warm fuzzies but they are utterly. The whole concept of revivals is arguably satanic.

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Look, if someone was kidnapped, and forced to attend a church, I doubt if anything good would happen.

The person needs to want to attend.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Plus we are in the end times. The flow of history is tough to overcome.
End times?

Christians been claiming that for 2000 years.
Yes, the prophesy that I pay attention to says we are at the start of the end times. They could last another year or a 1,000. We aren't privy to that info.

I get it, it's tough to know. I'm sure people thought the Black Plague or 536AD was the end of the World too. And it's not like it's demarcated by one event. And the events may not even be centered around "us".


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
Look, if someone was kidnapped, and forced to attend a church, I doubt if anything good would happen. The person needs to want to attend.
In the Middle Ages the church dominated almost every aspect of European life. Going to church then wasn’t voluntary (neither was tithing), people were forced to go to church (and forced to tithe), it was mandatory. The church condoned feudalism...a kind of institutionalized slavery...where the subjugated peasantry did all of the hard labor. For this 90% of the population life was pretty miserable. Most kids died before adulthood, punishments for the poor were very harsh, people worked the land hoping only to survive another season...or day. Life for the vast majority was a dreary existence. Entire communities dedicated generations of their resources to build huge awe inspiring cathedrals with stained glass, statues, pulpits, and guilted altarpieces...and Europe’s faithful masses paid the price for all of it. You can still see much of it to this day. Once a week these illiterate peasants would walk into these churches and be told what to believe. If they questioned any of it, or believed the wrong thing, they could be excommunicated (damned to hell). They could even be executed.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by wabigoon
Look, if someone was kidnapped, and forced to attend a church, I doubt if anything good would happen. The person needs to want to attend.
In the Middle Ages the church dominated almost every aspect of European life. Going to church then wasn’t voluntary (neither was tithing), people were forced to go to church (and forced to tithe), it was mandatory. The church condoned feudalism...a kind of institutionalized slavery...where the subjugated peasantry did all of the hard labor. For this 90% of the population life was pretty miserable. Most kids died before adulthood, punishments for the poor were very harsh, people worked the land hoping only to survive another season...or day. Life for the vast majority was a dreary existence. Entire communities dedicated generations of their resources to build huge awe inspiring cathedrals with stained glass, statues, pulpits, and guilted altarpieces...and Europe’s faithful masses paid the price for all of it. You can still see much of it to this day. Once a week these illiterate peasants would walk into these churches and be told what to believe. If they questioned any of it, or believed the wrong thing, they could be excommunicated (damned to hell). They could even be executed.


Yep.

Those medieval church services sure were good for everyone.


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Orthodoxy...or damned to hell by the church. Orthodoxy...or condemned to death and executed by the church.


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Do you follow an orthodoxy?

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by wabigoon
Look, if someone was kidnapped, and forced to attend a church, I doubt if anything good would happen. The person needs to want to attend.
In the Middle Ages the church dominated almost every aspect of European life. Going to church then wasn’t voluntary (neither was tithing), people were forced to go to church (and forced to tithe), it was mandatory. The church condoned feudalism...a kind of institutionalized slavery...where the subjugated peasantry did all of the hard labor. For this 90% of the population life was pretty miserable. Most kids died before adulthood, punishments for the poor were very harsh, people worked the land hoping only to survive another season...or day. Life for the vast majority was a dreary existence. Entire communities dedicated generations of their resources to build huge awe inspiring cathedrals with stained glass, statues, pulpits, and guilted altarpieces...and Europe’s faithful masses paid the price for all of it. You can still see much of it to this day. Once a week these illiterate peasants would walk into these churches and be told what to believe. If they questioned any of it, or believed the wrong thing, they could be excommunicated (damned to hell). They could even be executed.

Religion's main purpose has historically been to maintain the social strata and keep people in their place. This has been true all over the world. India is not near about the only place with a caste system. Thanks to our founding documents in this country religious domination of society has been kept to a minimum. We should be very glad of that now that some pretty intolerant religious adherents are immigrating to this country. I can promise you we do NOT need religion involved in our public schools and government institutions.


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Originally Posted by antlers
In the Middle Ages the church dominated almost every aspect of European life. Going to church then wasn’t voluntary (neither was tithing), people were forced to go to church (and forced to tithe), it was mandatory. The church condoned feudalism...a kind of institutionalized slavery...where the subjugated peasantry did all of the hard labor.


I am sure that there were many actual slave owners in the American colonies and, later, states who were well respected members of their bible based churches.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


Let's take a look at the countries with highest Church attendance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance

1. Nigeria.
2. Zambia
3. Haiti
4. Tanzania
5. Central African Republic
6. Chad
7. Liberia
8. Mozambique
9. Uganda
10. Kenya
11. Ethiopia
12. Cameroon
13. Guatemala
14. Democratic Republic of the Congo
15. Rwanda

The first civilized country on the list is Japan, at 50% of the population who attends at least weekly.

Since you believe Church attendance makes people behave so well, let me know which of those 15 countries listed above you will move to and leave you door unlocked at night.




Excuse me but those are NOT the countries with the highest church attendance. They are the countries with the highest proportion of Christians attending church.


Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.

Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


Let's take a look at the countries with highest Church attendance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance

1. Nigeria.
2. Zambia
3. Haiti
4. Tanzania
5. Central African Republic
6. Chad
7. Liberia
8. Mozambique
9. Uganda
10. Kenya
11. Ethiopia
12. Cameroon
13. Guatemala
14. Democratic Republic of the Congo
15. Rwanda

The first civilized country on the list is Japan, at 50% of the population who attends at least weekly.

Since you believe Church attendance makes people behave so well, let me know which of those 15 countries listed above you will move to and leave you door unlocked at night.




Excuse me but those are NOT the countries with the highest church attendance. They are the countries with the highest proportion of Christians attending church.


Change it to country wide worship and the results are not much different:

[Linked Image from pewforum.org]

https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13...s/pf-06-13-18_religiouscommitment-03-08/


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
Originally Posted by antlers
In the Middle Ages the church dominated almost every aspect of European life. Going to church then wasn’t voluntary (neither was tithing), people were forced to go to church (and forced to tithe), it was mandatory. The church condoned feudalism...a kind of institutionalized slavery...where the subjugated peasantry did all of the hard labor.
I am sure that there were many actual slave owners in the American colonies and, later, states who were well respected members of their bible based churches.
Without a doubt. And I’m sure they were well respected adherents of the orthodoxy as well.


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Incidentally, there was even a slave Bible that was published in the 1800’s. It was used to teach slaves how to read and it was used to teach slaves the message of Christianity, and to convert them to Christianity. But they removed any part of the Bible that undermined the legitimacy of slavery. They took out the whole Exodus story about the Hebrew people throwing off captivity and migrating to the promised land.


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Did the slave owners who believed in Jesus wind up in a better place than the non-believing, non-slave owning people who did really good deeds but could not wrap their brains around 1800+ year old code words?


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by ctsmith
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by ctsmith
You're a sad man.
Coming from a completely legalistic self-professed ‘Christian’ who evidently doesn’t know what it’s like to have a living vibrant relationship with a living resurrected Savior; who chooses to worship a book and revere rules and regulations and rituals instead of worshipping and revering the Savior Himself. I’m quite certain that if you’d lived 700 years ago and had the ability to burn me at the stake for ‘believing the wrong thing’, you’d do it in a nanosecond.
And you know that how?
It’s the way you come across in your completely legalistic posts.


Just in case you don't know it, Jesus legalistically obeyed the Father.


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