Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society?

He had to, otherwise that would be like disobeying yourself?

Good question. On one hand, God’s grace is unearnable. “Really good deeds” doesn’t earn one eternity with God. On the other hand, strict adherence to orthodoxy and legalism often replace love, and are counted as godliness by many. The Pharisees were good examples of this. They strictly abided by all the laws and traditions and doctrines and practices, but they had filthy hearts...and Jesus called them out on it.

Jesus consistently prioritized people over His own religion...including its doctrines and practices and laws and traditions. The religious leaders...who considered themselves to be godly ‘because’ they abided by the doctrines and practices and laws and traditions...prioritized religion.

So the non-believing, non-slave owning, good deed person definitely goes to hell but the slave owning believer, who was welcomed by the church, may or may not. Better odds owning slaves. Got it.

Apparently you don't "got it". How can the non believing man go somewhere that doesn't exist (to him)?

it;s not works good folks, it's Grace!

Yes sir.

True story. I was at a church where the pastor was making a point. Said old Miss Mable could cook 1000 meals for the needy, could have perfect attendance at church since she was 5 years old, and those works alone will send her straight to hell. Old Miss Mable got up and walked out of church.

it's all in the Hand, "Book".

Actually this isn’t quite accurate.

Jesus consistently showed that the religious leaders cynically manipulated doctrines and practices to shift goal posts in their favor. In doing so they acted as gods unto themselves rewriting His law and deceiving themselves into believing they were righteous when they weren’t. The law was written to reveal to us our sin and inability to be saved apart from grace and by their redefinition were deluded.

Christ Himself, however, observed His religion perfectly because His law keeping was centered around the letter and spirit of the law. He never violated Gods law but pointed out how Pharisees had perverted it even as they claimed to protect it.

I think it’s accurate. Time after time, Jesus prioritized people...and it put Him at odds...with the religious leaders who prioritized religion. “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath”...! It’s not like God had a bunch of rules and needed to create some people to keep em’. The law was for people, not the other way around.
Jesus didn’t die for a bunch of rules and regulations, He died for people. Jesus didn’t die for the Mosaic law, He died for the lawless. Jesus didn’t die for doctrines and traditions and practices, He died for those who broke them. Jesus didn’t die for His religion, He died for us. I have no doubt that people are more important than His religion because His view of people was ‘defined by’ His view from a blood-stained cross that He hung from. You disagree. That’s fine. Our disagreement on this matter doesn’t diminish the Gospel in any way whatsoever.

I do not consider any of the places you have named as "our" society.

Your incessant animus toward Christianity has long worn thin.

I actually agree with you on what you say above.

I don’t think we’re connecting but ok I know you have the impression that a high view of the law is antithetical to the Gospel.

Sorry to hear that you don't like facts, but they are stubborn things. Point of the matter is, there is a correlation between Church attendance and measures of well being, but it's a NEGATIVE correlation. In general, the more fundamentalist a society or group of people, the worse the outcomes for measures of well being.

If you took a careful look at the list above, you would notice they are not all Christian majority nations. Some are such a Rwanda were the genocide was preached for the pulpits of the Catholic Churches, but some are not, such as Ethiopia and Nigeria. Bottom line is, more people in church does not benefit the general populace.

antelope_sniper "...more people in church does not benefit the general populace." The Jesus I know of and have read of seemed to have the most issues with "people in church". Way more than he did with the common folk trying to get by. We hear from a lot of self assured folks on this forum that will assert they are going to eternal bliss based on a deluded man's interpretation of Jesus' doctrine. A doctrine of salvation that Jesus himself is not recorded endorsing. This coming from writings that claim 3 different versions of a secret meeting out on a deserted road and also claim a trip to 3rd heaven.

This👆🏻

To me, slave owning ‘Christians’ were hypocrites to the Nth degree. But many people...throughout history...have used scripture to justify their behavior. People have hated other people with a Bible verse, people have persecuted other people with a Bible verse, people have enslaved other people with a Bible verse, people have bigotry towards other people with a Bible verse, and when somebody confronts them they actually have a verse from the Bible with which they've found a way to disregard and mistreat the people for whom Jesus died...! Give em' a minute and they'll find a Biblical justification for just about any behavior they want. That's what some 'Christians' do. They've taken the Bible and they've twisted it to empower them to do the very opposite of what Jesus commanded them to do.
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By ‘this’ all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” Kinda hard to twist that.
And regarding God’s grace, accepting His grace is supremely important...first and foremost, regardless of anything else, no matter what. That’s what we ‘have to’ do if we want to spend eternity with Him. Extending grace to others is extremely important too. We are most like Jesus when we are extending grace to others. Grace...relationally...is likely the solution to just about everything.

it is all bullchit..........bob

even the religious guys on here cant agree with each other......even take jabs at those that aren't in lockstep with them.....bob

One cannot separate the Word of God from God and expect to fully know God. Such is to open ourselves up to false beliefs that we make up in the vacuum and thus will cause the Church to decline.

Revelation 19:9 - John claimed "These are true words of God".

https://www.gospelway.com/bible/bible_inspiration.php


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Kinda like people on the same team regarding politics, or people on the same team regarding economics...or people on the same team regarding pretty much anything else. Different people sometimes see things differently...even people on the same team. There’s nothing wrong with that. At all. We’re not all a bunch of stamped out cookie cutter automatons. Diversity and disagreements within the body of believers has existed since its inception.