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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264 |
Debating on acquiring one - partly for a HD weapon, partly as a truck gun, partly to annoy liberals, partly for the hell of it The house gun is a 16" .300BO, loaded with supersonic ammo. Can't quite decide on whether I'd want a pistol caliber, a .300 BO, or a 5.56. Shot next to one guy at the indoor range, who had a 5.56 pistol, roughly a 10" barrel, and it was utterly obnoxious as far as muzzle blast. Think he had a standard flash hider on it, and I know some of the devices like the KAK cans help direct blast forward. I've seen a PSA 9mm pistols recently that were reasonable priced and seemed decently made. The last I read, people who had intensively studied PCC's were not impressed with them for defensive use. Thoughts?
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50. Not something I was interested in, personally.
Looking at a 9mm AR to complement handguns (less variety of ammo)
Also, REALLY looking at 350 Legend.
Worked a lot putting together PSA, nothing wrong with those weapons or the company. MILSPEC is MILSPEC, period. I did put together a couple of PSA 308s and there is no MILSPEC on AR-10, thus I've been told uppers and lowers between companies are not compatible - but I really can't verify that.
And these zombies line up and eat from the media’s trough
Cowards CANNOT be free. Nor should they be.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2020
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Curious what kind of load you were using to get that kind of a rainbow trajectory? A standard velocity 22 lr shoots flatter than what you’re describing from a 5.56mm
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,264 |
I do have a BCA .350 Legend upper, and it shoots well, and kills critters well. In a pistol? Hmmm...
One of my gripes about the .350 is it needs special magazines, which defeats the purpose of commonality with the numerous 5.56 mags. The .300 BO works well with 5.56 mags, although I know some do make special mags for it, too.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
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mine in 300bo 8.5 inch barrel hangs next to the door on a hook. dog wants to go for a walk every time i touch it. we have a wolf problem here so it goes on every walk with me. i seldom grab my 9mm S&W anymore. also have a 10.5 inch 7.62x39, and a 10.5 .556. don't shoot them as much what with the component shortage right now, but the 7.62 sits next to my nightstand. it is fitted out with light and laser etc. i should thin the herd but..........
i like the 300bo for the weight range of bullets it will handle. ymmv
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,368 |
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50. Not something I was interested in, personally.
Looking at a 9mm AR to complement handguns (less variety of ammo)
Also, REALLY looking at 350 Legend.
Worked a lot putting together PSA, nothing wrong with those weapons or the company. MILSPEC is MILSPEC, period. I did put together a couple of PSA 308s and there is no MILSPEC on AR-10, thus I've been told uppers and lowers between companies are not compatible - but I really can't verify that. Complete bullshit.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,609
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,609 |
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50.
Complete bullshit. Yep, Total bullshit. With a 10.5" barrel you can get 2800 out of a 52gr NCC. Here's what a 250 yard zero looks like: Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -2.8 *** 0.0 *** 2813.9 2.520 914.1 0.000 0.0 ***
25 -0.8 -3.1 0.1 0.3 2710.3 2.428 848.0 0.027 4.8 18.3
50 0.8 1.6 0.4 0.7 2608.6 2.337 785.6 0.055 9.7 18.6
75 2.2 2.8 0.8 1.1 2509.1 2.247 726.8 0.085 14.9 19.0
100 3.2 3.0 1.5 1.4 2411.6 2.160 671.4 0.115 20.3 19.4
125 3.8 2.9 2.4 1.8 2316.4 2.075 619.4 0.147 25.9 19.8
150 4.0 2.5 3.5 2.2 2223.3 1.991 570.7 0.180 31.7 20.2
175 3.7 2.0 4.9 2.7 2132.6 1.910 525.0 0.214 37.7 20.6
200 3.0 1.4 6.5 3.1 2044.1 1.831 482.4 0.250 44.1 21.0
225 1.8 0.8 8.4 3.6 1957.6 1.753 442.4 0.288 50.7 21.5
250 -0.0 -0.0 10.6 4.1 1872.9 1.678 405.0 0.327 57.5 22.0
275 -2.4 -0.8 13.2 4.6 1790.0 1.603 369.9 0.368 64.8 22.5
300 -5.5 -1.8 16.0 5.1 1708.8 1.531 337.1 0.411 72.3 23.0
325 -9.4 -2.7 19.2 5.7 1629.1 1.459 306.4 0.456 80.2 23.6
350 -14.0 -3.8 22.8 6.2 1551.1 1.389 277.8 0.503 88.5 24.2
375 -19.6 -5.0 26.9 6.8 1474.7 1.321 251.1 0.553 97.2 24.8
400 -26.1 -6.2 31.4 7.5 1400.1 1.254 226.3 0.605 106.4 25.4
425 -33.8 -7.6 36.4 8.2 1327.4 1.189 203.4 0.660 116.1 26.1
450 -42.7 -9.1 41.9 8.9 1256.9 1.126 182.4 0.718 126.3 26.8
475 -53.0 -10.7 48.0 9.7 1189.0 1.065 163.2 0.779 137.1 27.6
500 -64.8 -12.4 54.7 10.5 1124.9 1.008 146.1 0.844 148.6 28.4
525 -78.4 -14.3 62.1 11.3 1075.5 0.963 133.5 0.912 160.6 29.2
550 -93.8 -16.3 69.8 12.1 1044.8 0.936 126.0 0.983 173.0 30.0
575 -111.2 -18.5 77.9 12.9 1020.8 0.914 120.3 1.056 185.8 30.9
600 -130.7 -20.8 86.3 13.7 999.8 0.896 115.4 1.130 198.9 31.7
625 -152.3 -23.3 95.0 14.5 980.5 0.878 111.0 1.206 212.2 32.4
650 -176.2 -25.9 103.9 15.3 962.4 0.862 106.9 1.283 225.8 33.2
675 -202.5 -28.6 113.0 16.0 945.1 0.846 103.1 1.362 239.7 33.9
700 -231.2 -31.5 122.4 16.7 928.4 0.832 99.5 1.442 253.8 34.6
725 -262.4 -34.6 132.1 17.4 912.4 0.817 96.1 1.524 268.1 35.3
750 -296.3 -37.7 142.0 18.1 896.8 0.803 92.8 1.606 282.7 36.0
775 -332.8 -41.0 152.2 18.8 881.6 0.790 89.7 1.691 297.6 36.7
800 -372.1 -44.4 162.6 19.4 866.9 0.776 86.7 1.777 312.7 37.3
825 -414.4 -48.0 173.3 20.1 852.4 0.763 83.9 1.864 328.1 38.0
850 -459.6 -51.6 184.2 20.7 838.3 0.751 81.1 1.953 343.7 38.6
875 -508.0 -55.4 195.4 21.3 824.5 0.738 78.5 2.043 359.6 39.2
900 -559.5 -59.4 206.9 22.0 810.9 0.726 75.9 2.135 375.8 39.9
925 -614.3 -63.4 218.7 22.6 797.7 0.714 73.5 2.229 392.2 40.5
950 -672.6 -67.6 230.7 23.2 784.7 0.703 71.1 2.324 409.0 41.1
975 -734.5 -71.9 243.0 23.8 771.9 0.691 68.8 2.420 426.0 41.7
1000 -799.9 -76.4 255.6 24.4 759.4 0.680 66.6 2.519 443.3 42.3
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,050
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,050 |
NOT complete BS, That is what I experienced withstandard factory 5.56.
And these zombies line up and eat from the media’s trough
Cowards CANNOT be free. Nor should they be.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942 |
Typical 55gr ammo will get you 2700-2800 fps from a 10.5".
With a 25 yard zero, you should be hitting 5-6" high at 100.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942 |
I zero my 10.5" 5.56 at 40 yards.
It hits 2" high at 100, and is back on zero at 200.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,609
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,609 |
NOT complete BS, That is what I experienced withstandard factory 5.56. If true, you had other undiagnosed issues.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027 |
the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,095
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,095 |
Been involved with a few short barrelled AR's - 556 exclusively, Velocity loss is incredible - no, I did not chrono the loads, dead on at 25, 12 inches low at 100, 6 inches low at 50. Not something I was interested in, personally. You claim that the bullet dropped 6” in 25 yards (between the 25 yard zero mark and 50 yard target). Never mind that a person could literally throw a baseball that distance with a flatter trajectory. You then claim that the bullet dropped another 6” while traveling twice as far (50 yards) even though the bullet is continuing to slow down and should be dropping at a faster rate. Not saying that you’re lying at all but it defies any experience that I’ve had and defies physics. I think something was wrong with your setup.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,651 |
He wasn’t actually zeroed at 25.
For lost people the group dispersion at 25 is large enough to be incapable of verifying that the group is actually zeroed at 25 or if it’s a bit high or low. And a bit high or low at 25 can be a big deal.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,651 |
3” difference in drop at 100 with .8” difference at 25. My 11.5” with a 25 yard zero. Same load with a zero that’s .8” high at 25 (which is very likely with most people’s 3 shot zero process)
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,942 |
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I ran the numbers in Strelok.
12” low at 100 is 6” low at 50, and 4” low at 25.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,550
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,550 |
I’ve been using an sbr at work for many years. Yes they are loud as hell but handy in confined spaces. I wouldn’t go less than 10.5 if i were to build or buy one. Just my personal preference and I’d stick with 5.56.
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis I Burn While I See Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Debating on acquiring one - partly for a HD weapon, partly as a truck gun,
I've seen a PSA 9mm pistols recently that were reasonable priced and seemed decently made. The last I read, people who had intensively studied PCC's were not impressed with them for defensive use.
Thoughts?
PCCs are a hoot. I've had a couple and shot quite a few more. They're notoriously unreliable. The only model that has an across-the-board reputation for reliability is the JP, which I have now and should have just paid the money for to begin with. A few friends have MPXs that they trust, now that they've worked out the kinks and proved them reliable.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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