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Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: IndyCA35] #15985666 04/12/21
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Time to adopt the jewish model.

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Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: antelope_sniper] #15985735 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Sorry to hear that you don't like facts, but they are stubborn things.


I love facts, and the fact is that none of what you have posted that quoted me has anything to do with our society. Your response to my original post was simply the use of the leftist tactic of distract and deflect. When called on that, you refuse to acknowledge it and instead you double down just as any good leftist would.

I have come to believe that you are only a notch or two above the leftists of BLM and Antifa. They seem determined to undermine and destroy the nation that they have been the beneficiary of. Likewise, you seem determined to undermine and destroy the Christian faith, which you, whether you realize it or not, whether you will admit it or not, have been the beneficiary of. This country was founded by men whose minds were steeped in Christianity and the wisdom they had derived in part from that was what led to the form of government and society that you now enjoy.

To some degree, you are just as much a useful idiot of the globalists as are the anarchists of BLM and Antifa.



TYG,
Sure I provided data at the country level, but correlation does not stop there. Within the U.S. when you break the data down at the state level, the same correlation exists. As an example, the more religious a state the higher the teenage pregnancy rate and the lower the per capita incomes.


Nice try, but those statistics, if true, mean nothing and you know it. To be valid, they'd have to compare teenage pregnancy rates or per capita income between the churched and un-churched. Even that would not suffice, you'd really need to have comparative behavioral profiles across peoples' entire lives. A churched, unwed teenage mother might, as a result of her upbringing, live the remainder of her life in a way that is pleasing to God. An un-churched one might become a Christian despite not having been raised in church. And since when has income become a measure of good or bad behavior?

Your post was simply more distraction and deflection.

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: SuperCub] #15985787 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by SuperCub
How do you separate Christ from the Bible?
The men and women who actually knew Jesus personally and chose to follow Him...Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Andrew, Mary, Martha, and Paul...the men and women whose faith laid the groundwork for the evangelization of the entire world, did so without the Bible. They received salvation without the Bible. As did many, many followers of Jesus who came after them. The Bible didn’t even exist until the 4th century. Clearly, Christianity didn’t exist for these people ‘because of’ the Bible. The foundation of their faith, clearly, was not the Bible. The foundation of their faith was an event.
Originally Posted by SuperCub
Is the Bible not the infallible word of God for our direction?
I believe the original writings themselves to be inspired. Is what we have nowadays “infallible”...? It doesn’t matter, because the Bible is not the foundation of Christianity. It wasn’t for the earliest Christians and it’s not nowadays either. The foundation of Christianity is the same event that was the foundation of the faith of the earliest Christians. The resurrection of Jesus is the foundation of Christianity. It always has been. And it always will be.

Without the resurrection, the Bible wouldn’t even exist. Without the resurrection, none of the New Testament documents would have even been written.


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: antlers] #15985820 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by SuperCub
How do you separate Christ from the Bible?
The men and women who actually knew Jesus personally and chose to follow Him...Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James, Andrew, Mary, Martha, and Paul...the men and women whose faith laid the groundwork for the evangelization of the entire world, did so without the Bible. They received salvation without the Bible. As did many, many followers of Jesus who came after them. The Bible didn’t even exist until the 4th century. Clearly, Christianity didn’t exist for these people ‘because of’ the Bible. The foundation of their faith, clearly, was not the Bible. The foundation of their faith was an event.
Originally Posted by SuperCub
Is the Bible not the infallible word of God for our direction?
I believe the original writings themselves to be inspired. Is what we have nowadays “infallible”...? It doesn’t matter, because the Bible is not the foundation of Christianity. It wasn’t for the earliest Christians and it’s not nowadays either. The foundation of Christianity is the same event that was the foundation of the faith of the earliest Christians. The resurrection of Jesus is the foundation of Christianity. It always has been. And it always will be.

Without the resurrection, the Bible wouldn’t even exist. Without the resurrection, none of the New Testament documents would have even been written.


+1

I would enjoy meeting you.


If you spend your life acting the victim, your award will always be a busted nose.
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: antelope_sniper] #15985839 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


Change it to country wide worship and the results are not much different:

[Linked Image from pewforum.org]

https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13...s/pf-06-13-18_religiouscommitment-03-08/


Fascinating map... thanks for chasing down and posting.


If you spend your life acting the victim, your award will always be a busted nose.
IC-A

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: IndyCA35] #15985873 04/12/21
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Some of us worry too much.



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Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: SuperCub] #15985936 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by SuperCub


How do you separate Christ from the Bible? Is the Bible not the infallible word of God for our direction?

If not, what is?


I think that Gnosticism is the easiest answer. People who are involved with the New Apostolic Reformation or any of the offshoots believe that they get information directly from God.

Scripture means little to nothing because it is superseded by “new” direct revelation. To proof the “new knowledge” sound doctrine that is seen throughout scripture by systematic study is sacrificed for isolated verses that support the “new truth”.

It’s nothing new and hasn’t gone away. It just has a new name and a new face.

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: IZH27] #15986039 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by IZH27
Originally Posted by SuperCub


How do you separate Christ from the Bible? Is the Bible not the infallible word of God for our direction?

If not, what is?


I think that Gnosticism is the easiest answer. People who are involved with the New Apostolic Reformation or any of the offshoots believe that they get information directly from God.

Scripture means little to nothing because it is superseded by “new” direct revelation. To proof the “new knowledge” sound doctrine that is seen throughout scripture by systematic study is sacrificed for isolated verses that support the “new truth”.

It’s nothing new and hasn’t gone away. It just has a new name and a new face.


Sounds like a good way of saying "I'll do it my way" no matter what God said. The 1st Adam did the same.

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: There_Ya_Go] #15986141 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Sorry to hear that you don't like facts, but they are stubborn things.


I love facts, and the fact is that none of what you have posted that quoted me has anything to do with our society. Your response to my original post was simply the use of the leftist tactic of distract and deflect. When called on that, you refuse to acknowledge it and instead you double down just as any good leftist would.

I have come to believe that you are only a notch or two above the leftists of BLM and Antifa. They seem determined to undermine and destroy the nation that they have been the beneficiary of. Likewise, you seem determined to undermine and destroy the Christian faith, which you, whether you realize it or not, whether you will admit it or not, have been the beneficiary of. This country was founded by men whose minds were steeped in Christianity and the wisdom they had derived in part from that was what led to the form of government and society that you now enjoy.

To some degree, you are just as much a useful idiot of the globalists as are the anarchists of BLM and Antifa.



TYG,
Sure I provided data at the country level, but correlation does not stop there. Within the U.S. when you break the data down at the state level, the same correlation exists. As an example, the more religious a state the higher the teenage pregnancy rate and the lower the per capita incomes.


Nice try, but those statistics, if true, mean nothing and you know it. To be valid, they'd have to compare teenage pregnancy rates or per capita income between the churched and un-churched. Even that would not suffice, you'd really need to have comparative behavioral profiles across peoples' entire lives. A churched, unwed teenage mother might, as a result of her upbringing, live the remainder of her life in a way that is pleasing to God. An un-churched one might become a Christian despite not having been raised in church. And since when has income become a measure of good or bad behavior?

Your post was simply more distraction and deflection.


Not at all.

If your hypothesis was true, we'd see the results in the real world. Countries and states with the "most churched" people would demonstrate better markers of well being, but the reality is the exact opposite. Even when we use your method, interview people here in the U.S regarding their churchieness, we get the same results. The more fundamentalist a population, the worse the fair on measures of well being.


Nobody spends somebody else�s money as carefully as he spends his own.
The U.S Government has a unique capacity for getting things upside down.
Milton Friedman.

Go quiet or full tilt, just don't get caught in the middle of the stupids. DD
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: antelope_sniper] #15986603 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper

Sorry to hear that you don't like facts, but they are stubborn things.


I love facts, and the fact is that none of what you have posted that quoted me has anything to do with our society. Your response to my original post was simply the use of the leftist tactic of distract and deflect. When called on that, you refuse to acknowledge it and instead you double down just as any good leftist would.

I have come to believe that you are only a notch or two above the leftists of BLM and Antifa. They seem determined to undermine and destroy the nation that they have been the beneficiary of. Likewise, you seem determined to undermine and destroy the Christian faith, which you, whether you realize it or not, whether you will admit it or not, have been the beneficiary of. This country was founded by men whose minds were steeped in Christianity and the wisdom they had derived in part from that was what led to the form of government and society that you now enjoy.

To some degree, you are just as much a useful idiot of the globalists as are the anarchists of BLM and Antifa.



TYG,
Sure I provided data at the country level, but correlation does not stop there. Within the U.S. when you break the data down at the state level, the same correlation exists. As an example, the more religious a state the higher the teenage pregnancy rate and the lower the per capita incomes.


Nice try, but those statistics, if true, mean nothing and you know it. To be valid, they'd have to compare teenage pregnancy rates or per capita income between the churched and un-churched. Even that would not suffice, you'd really need to have comparative behavioral profiles across peoples' entire lives. A churched, unwed teenage mother might, as a result of her upbringing, live the remainder of her life in a way that is pleasing to God. An un-churched one might become a Christian despite not having been raised in church. And since when has income become a measure of good or bad behavior?

Your post was simply more distraction and deflection.


Not at all.

If your hypothesis was true, we'd see the results in the real world. Countries and states with the "most churched" people would demonstrate better markers of well being, but the reality is the exact opposite. Even when we use your method, interview people here in the U.S regarding their churchieness, we get the same results. The more fundamentalist a population, the worse the fair on measures of well being.


Since I have already pointed out the fallacy of your rejection of my "hypothesis", we are at an impasse and I see no need to continue to go in the same circle again, as you and I have done before. First you used supposed data from other countries to try to support your animosity towards church/Christianity. When that wouldn't fly and you were forced to bring it back to the U.S., you tried to use state-based "facts" and again, your post wouldn't pass muster. So, now you are claiming that "we" (you) get the same results when comparing the churched and un-churched. If you really had interviews/studies that show what you are saying, you would have led with that two posts ago. In addition, you have gone back to citing countries and states again; you are simply circling back again to the same assertions that have already been shown to be irrelevant. Frankly, I think you are full of it and are making up whatever you think you need to say to support your position. Once again, typical leftist tactics of distraction and deflection, and moving the goal posts as the game is being played; just as you do in every thread that has anything to do with Christianity. Your desperate attempts to undermine Christianity are really quite pathetic.

IC-B

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: wabigoon] #15987478 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by wabigoon
Some of us worry too much.
To me, we were not created to live worried, upset, or on edge.


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: antelope_sniper] #15987490 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
If your hypothesis was true, we'd see the results in the real world. Countries and states with the "most churched" people would demonstrate better markers of well being, but the reality is the exact opposite. Even when we use your method, interview people here in the U.S regarding their churchieness, we get the same results. The more fundamentalist a population, the worse the fair on measures of well being.
Wealth and socialism kill belief in God. Materialism or the State replace God.

"...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

“You cannot serve both God and money.”


Politics is War by Other Means
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: IndyCA35] #15987517 04/12/21
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+1

I couldn't have put it better .

"Churched" people mean nothing in as far as God's Word is concerned. The most Churched Pharisees and Saducees were rebuked harsher than anyone by Jesus.
Jesus was trying to get them saved. Nicodemus sought Him out and was taught very clearly.
It would be good for others here to have that attitude.
I know you do.
Christ is Head of His own Churches, but the unbelievers lump all churches into the save category.

Today's religion is $ and "science" falsely so called.


Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
Are you absolutely 100% sure that you will go to heaven if something happens today?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/WuMTe9l6nzM

https://www.brighteon.com/5ec88bb1-f312-4cba-b266-0bdb7393607f

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: Tyrone] #15987527 04/12/21
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Money, and what money promises, is the chief competitor with God for our heart.


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: Happy_Camper] #15987605 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
The most Churched Pharisees and Saducees were rebuked harsher than anyone by Jesus.
And they’d been studying their religion for years and years, and considered themselves learned and educated in their faith more than others, and they also considered themselves better and holier than others because of it and because they believed they adhered strictly to the orthodoxy better than others. And as you said, Jesus put them in their place. Every. Single. Time.


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: SuperCub] #15987609 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by SuperCub
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
I fully believe that half of the church goers would support a form of Christian Sharia if they could.

We would be back to stoning gays and adulterers, burning witches and arranging marriage.


I've never personally heard anything like that from a Christian and the churches I've attended & pastors I've sat under have been quite conservative.

Have you?


Pay closer attention to what's said by a lot of "Christians" here on The Fire, and ask yourself what they would really do if they had the power?


Nobody spends somebody else�s money as carefully as he spends his own.
The U.S Government has a unique capacity for getting things upside down.
Milton Friedman.

Go quiet or full tilt, just don't get caught in the middle of the stupids. DD
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: UPhiker] #15987631 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by UPhiker
Originally Posted by kingston
Fewer children will be molested by clergy.

+1. I was raised a Catholic and the Church's dealings have sickened me. So I go this way
Quote
Matthew 18:20 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
I don't really need organized religion. If you live a good, moral life, you'll end up where you're supposed to.



Amen


Hunt...
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: Tyrone] #15987633 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
If your hypothesis was true, we'd see the results in the real world. Countries and states with the "most churched" people would demonstrate better markers of well being, but the reality is the exact opposite. Even when we use your method, interview people here in the U.S regarding their churchieness, we get the same results. The more fundamentalist a population, the worse the fair on measures of well being.
Wealth and socialism kill belief in God. Materialism or the State replace God.

"...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

“You cannot serve both God and money.”


Wealth correlates with Education and IQ, all three of which correlate with lower believes in god(s).
As for Socialism killing God, IME Marxism is a religion, so it's the substitution of one theology for another.


Nobody spends somebody else�s money as carefully as he spends his own.
The U.S Government has a unique capacity for getting things upside down.
Milton Friedman.

Go quiet or full tilt, just don't get caught in the middle of the stupids. DD
Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: IndyCA35] #15987640 04/12/21
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Have you seen anyone in this thread who is "Learned and educated in their faith....consider(ing) themselves better and holier than others?

Re: What Does Declining Church Attendance Mean for Our Society? [Re: antelope_sniper] #15987680 04/12/21
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Wealth correlates with Education and IQ.
That doesn’t necessarily hold true for tremendously wealthy athletes in the NFL, the NBA, or MLB...or for some tremendously wealthy people in the entertainment industry.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
... which correlates with lower beliefs in god(s).
To many wealthy people, perhaps money ‘is’ their god, perhaps money ‘is’ what they worship. Jesus’ quote that Tyrone posted refers to that.


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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