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3584ELK Offline OP
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...in new trucks?

Seems all the online options from the big 3 are automatics. Other than one Ford salesman who claims all things are possible, ala carte, it appears that manual transmissions are scarce.

Do you fellas know anything different?

Thx


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I don't think there are any manuals available anymore in half-ton or larger trucks. You can still get them in some compacts.


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The last manuals made in full size pickups were in Dodge Cummins 3/4 and 1 ton. They dropped both of those a couple years ago.


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sold an '04 Dodge Cummins M/T 2 yrs ago........124K miles

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You know you’re old if you remember AT in a vehicle being an upcharge!

Then AT became standard and a discount for MT

Then upcharge for MT

Now, MT not even available.


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PUSSY ASSED MANUFACTURERS CATERING TO MILLENIALS!


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Heck I want to find a manual for my kids to drive. When they go to collage or wherever they will have a better chance of not having their car stolen. It won't be that effective here in farm country since most of the kids are able to drive a manual, but I can't remember the last time someone had a vehicle stolen either.

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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
PUSSY ASSED MANUFACTURERS CATERING TO MILLENIALS!

I don’t think it’s so much that as a combination of automatics improving so much and engines, especially new diesels, making so much power that the available pickup sized manuals can’t stand up to them. I believe the ZF5 and ZF6 were rated for 600lb of torque, none of the big three have made a diesel with that little torque in over a decade.

The only thing I can think of that I’d do in a pickup that would make me wish for a manual again is roll start one with a dead battery. Otherwise the new automatics are excellent in every way.

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I still like a manual when the vehicle has marginal power or is underpowered. Helps you stay in the powerband. Otherwise, today's truck automatics do seem pretty good.

In a sporty car, I still prefer the manual for the fun factor, even though modern autos will smoke them in a drag race.


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Obviously you automatic lovers have never faced a slick, steep downhill grade where a low crawler gear will allow you to maintain traction and steering. With an automatic, even in 4LO, you end up riding the brakes and risk becoming a sled.


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I have not. Not many steep grades around here, but I can see where there could be merit in that instance. Can you not accomplish the same with a low-geared auto in 1st gear? My last two truck autos would let me stay in 1st if I wanted.


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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
Obviously you automatic lovers have never faced a slick, steep downhill grade where a low crawler gear will allow you to maintain traction and steering. With an automatic, even in 4LO, you end up riding the brakes and risk becoming a sled.


I am a big fan of manual transmissions and they are good in the situation you describe, but you can pull the emergency brake to about half position or so and effectively hold the automatic back where if you start sliding a little you have to give it some gas to straighten it out, just like you would with a low (granny) gear in a manual.

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Sold my F350 Diesel Manual today. On to easy street with the F150 auto.


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My last manual was a 90 Chevy Scottsdale with a 350 motor. In 4 low and 1st gear I would have to give it gas to feel like I was going anywhere down a steep hill. I loved that thing. Had it for 13 years. but it wasn't powerful enough to pull my horse trailer so had to get something bigger that was an automatic. While good it wasn't as controllable going down hill. Descent controls are supposed to do what the manual used to.

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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
PUSSY ASSED MANUFACTURERS CATERING TO THE MARKET!


Fixed. They are in the business to make money and any automatic can be dropped to whatever gear is needed for descent. A ten speed automatic offers a lot of options.


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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
Obviously you automatic lovers have never faced a slick, steep downhill grade where a low crawler gear will allow you to maintain traction and steering. With an automatic, even in 4LO, you end up riding the brakes and risk becoming a sled.
My Dodge Cummins has a manual. On a long steep one, I engage the exhaust brake and drop maybe 1 gear, 2 if it's really steep or I have a heavy trailer. Sit back and let it idle down the hill. OTOH, our Toyota Highlander has a v6 and an 8 spd auto. I have to get down to 4th before I can feel any braking at all. If the engine speed is up to a certain level, it won't shift down at all to avoid over revving the engine. If you're pulling a trailer, you'd better plan ahead for hills.


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May be the manufacturer's are just catering the city crowd. Clearly you have not been on the kind of trails I have. Bouncing off the curb at McDonald's is not what I am referring to.

I got my answer. Thanks, fellas!


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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Heck I want to find a manual for my kids to drive. When they go to collage or wherever they will have a better chance of not having their car stolen. It won't be that effective here in farm country since most of the kids are able to drive a manual, but I can't remember the last time someone had a vehicle stolen either.



My son can drive my manual 92 Chevy C1500, and my 77 GMC K2500. Both manuals. Takes a bit to figure out after not driving for awhile, but he is/was a natural at driving things. My daughter thus far has only driven the automatics. The lessons this summer will involve some yelling and tears I've no doubt lol. But that's the beautiful thing about having old rigs. Bounce it off a tree or pop the clutch, I can pound the dent out or replace the u-joints and I'm not out a daily driver.

I very much lament the death of manual transmissions in pickups. Too many betas out there buying cars with beds that can't manage them.


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Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by 3584ELK
PUSSY ASSED MANUFACTURERS CATERING TO THE MARKET!


Fixed. They are in the business to make money and any automatic can be dropped to whatever gear is needed for descent. A ten speed automatic offers a lot of options.

Exactly.
Our ‘11 F250 has a 6 speed auto. I can hold back 23,000 GCW using the tow/ haul option, or putting it into manual mode. Easy enough to not toast brakes on a grade, if one has actually done so.

I too lament to unavailability of MT, but hauling flesh, nobody can equal the smoothness of an AT to ease a critter’s trip. That’s worth it.


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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
Obviously you automatic lovers have never faced a slick, steep downhill grade where a low crawler gear will allow you to maintain traction and steering. With an automatic, even in 4LO, you end up riding the brakes and risk becoming a sled.


Compression brake fixes all that in Diesels. Plus you can drop into manual towing and creep down the steepest, slickest hill.


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My 'big' truck is a 2006 F250, automatic. Trailer loaded down with horses/mules, top of Monarch Pass in Colorado, tap the brakes at the peak one time, and never touch the brakes again all the way down. That is a 15 year old truck, I'm sure the newer ones have even better engine braking.

That said, I do miss a manual for just putzing around. My commuter car is a Honda Civic, 5 speed manual. Driving it is second nature, don't even think about it as being any kind of inconvenience.

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My Minneapolis based daughter traded in her Honda Civic and after the deal was done, the dealer hadn’t realized that it was a stick. Not a big seller in the big city.

‘Ol Blue was my trip truck with a five speed, but none of my relief drivers knew how to shift it very well. I remember taking a break in the back and either lugging through town in fifth gear, or screaming (both me and the engine) down the highway in third gear.

My kid was just out of school at his first job for Circuit City and being a big strapper, they told him that he got to deliver the TV’s. All well and good until he got to the truck and saw that it had a manual transmission. Learned to drive one real quickly or no delivery gig.

The wife tells the story about a friend of hers calling asking if she will come over to the dealership and drive her new car home for her. A never learned to drive a stick shift person buying a manual transmission vehicle, but she liked the color.


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Originally Posted by Windfall


My kid was just out of school at his first job for Circuit City and being a big strapper, they told him that he got to deliver the TV’s. All well and good until he got to the truck and saw that it had a manual transmission. Learned to drive one real quickly or no delivery gig.

Why didn't your kid know how to drive a stick?
I taught all my kids how to drive in a manual transmission vehicle.


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Originally Posted by Windfall
My Minneapolis based daughter traded in her Honda Civic and after the deal was done, the dealer hadn’t realized that it was a stick. Not a big seller in the big city.

‘Ol Blue was my trip truck with a five speed, but none of my relief drivers knew how to shift it very well. I remember taking a break in the back and either lugging through town in fifth gear, or screaming (both me and the engine) down the highway in third gear.

My kid was just out of school at his first job for Circuit City and being a big strapper, they told him that he got to deliver the TV’s. All well and good until he got to the truck and saw that it had a manual transmission. Learned to drive one real quickly or no delivery gig.

The wife tells the story about a friend of hers calling asking if she will come over to the dealership and drive her new car home for her. A never learned to drive a stick shift person buying a manual transmission vehicle, but she liked the color.



Still hurts to even talk about. But,

Sold my '86 K2500 Suburban to a kid from ND. Was originally from VT I think? But he saw my ad in craigslist and was working around Williston. Was a factory manual transmission. Had to give him time enough to pull cash out of the ATM every day till he had enough. Showed up with some buddies. He didn't know how to drive it, had his buddy drive it back for him, said he'd learn on the fly. I wonder sometimes whatever happened to that truck. I should have never ever sold the damned thing.


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58 Ford, 67 Chevy, 70 Dodge, 85 ford, 98 Dodge diesel,two Tacomas. Still driving one of those,but it is my wife's. All Std transmission. This 2019 Chevy is the first truck with an auto.

49 Plymouth Coupe, 53 Chevy, 56 Chevy, 3 Subarus, one Volkswagon bug. All Std. .I have had twos auto cars.One was a 61 Ford the other a 2004 Acura


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I still drive Dad’s last farm truck from time to time. It’s a 92 Chevy 2500 with a 350 V-8 and 5 speed manual with the granny low gear. 350K miles and still going strong.

Was giving it a a jump for a dead battery one day, and I told my 23 year old nephew to hop in and start it for me.
He couldn’t figure out how to start it it and looked at me for advice. I told him to depress the clutch.
He looked at me dumbfounded and said, “what’s a clutch ?”

I laughed my ass off.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
Originally Posted by 3584ELK
Obviously you automatic lovers have never faced a slick, steep downhill grade where a low crawler gear will allow you to maintain traction and steering. With an automatic, even in 4LO, you end up riding the brakes and risk becoming a sled.


Compression brake fixes all that in Diesels. Plus you can drop into manual towing and creep down the steepest, slickest hill.



Yep, I love the auto's in the F350's.


No desire to drive a manual pickup for work.

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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
...in new trucks?

Seems all the online options from the big 3 are automatics. Other than one Ford salesman who claims all things are possible, ala carte, it appears that manual transmissions are scarce.

Do you fellas know anything different?

Thx



I would love to have a manual vehicle but they don't make many anymore. I don't think anyone even makes a full-size truck with a manual anymore. A couple of years ago I saw where more EVs were sold than vehicles with manuals. Drive one of the new trucks with a modern 10-speed auto and you will see why. The new autos keep the engine in its power band all the time. In old vehicles, a really good driver in a drag race could often outrun an automatic I assume primarily because the parasitic loss of the older autos. That is no longer the case. Technology has progressed.

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Give it some time and geared trannies will return.
As dual disc automatics.
They are probably the future, as soon as they get them figured out.
Ford's stupidity can't be helped, the design can.


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''64 chevelle, '84 F250, '89 F250, '86 F250, '88 F350 and a '99 F350, all manual.

The '99 is the current rig and is pretty well sorted, but I'm still considering what's the next move for trucks. Driving an auto on mountain logging and service roads is a joyless, annoying affair, and driving an auto when it's slippery moreso.

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If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.

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Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!


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I lament the passing of manual transmissions.

However, the greater sorrow is the godsdamnedfugking traction control and stability control bullchit. It's a cancerous tumor on every damned truck out there now.

I'd trade the manuals as much as I like em for the option to not have that crap.


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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!

Put the AT in “2”.


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Most A/T’s in trucks can be started in 2 in low traction conditions (lookup first gear lockout). In addition, the TC/stability control can be turned off with a button when needed. I’m guessing they saved quite a few wrecks over the years. Many even have throttle mapping settings that can remap the throttle settings when off road or in low traction situations. The Luddite in me likes driving sticks, but they don’t really give an advantage over most newer autos.

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The manual mode on auto trannys helped this year in our ice storms. Showed a girl how to use hers to maintain traction on takeoff and she said “Ohhhhhhh... so that’s what the M on the gearshift is for”.

I do agree on the traction control and stability stuff being a PITA when off-road. By the time you remember to disable it, you are generally buried up in the mud. It is good to have on the road though. Got jammed up the other day when crossing a five lane and had to goose it hard due to a speeder coming over the hill, but no tirespin, just traction. Old trucks would have just spun tires there if they had similar power. A 90’s pickup with a 350, 351, or 360 would smoke some back tires on takeoff.


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My first two F-150's were manuals and that 300 6 with the four speed wasn't bad because that engine had some low end torque. That said 'Ol Blue had that old 302 V8 with a five speed and it was nothing short of dismal for low end. If it wasn't for the 4L range without the front hubs locked in, I never would have backed a trailer anywhere. The neighbor's 2wd truck with a stick in his Chev ate clutches backing his boat into the garage. Contrast that to the across the street neighbor with that same anemic 302 in his Ford van only with an automatic and he pulled his 26' travel trailer out to the East coast and back on a family vacation with no issues what ever. The torque converter with his automatic made all the difference.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!

Put the AT in “2”.

As you could do in a Ford truck 40+ years ao.


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Originally Posted by K1500
Most A/T’s in trucks can be started in 2 in low traction conditions (lookup first gear lockout). In addition, the TC/stability control can be turned off with a button when needed. I’m guessing they saved quite a few wrecks over the years. Many even have throttle mapping settings that can remap the throttle settings when off road or in low traction situations. The Luddite in me likes driving sticks, but they don’t really give an advantage over most newer autos.




Bullshidt. They don't turn off. They do lessen, but the ones I've driven never turn off. I'm sure they are neat and help folks who can't drive. I'd like the option to not have it.

It's like having a semi-auto pistol with a safety that automatically engages every time you pull the trigger. "you can just turn it off"


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Last manual I had was a 98 Chevy half ton extended cab. It was a pickup that someone had custom ordered. Between the five speed, flow master exhaust, and smaller 5.0 (305) vortec engine. That thing got the best fuel mileage I’ve seen out of a full size pickup. Usually around 20 MPG.

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Originally Posted by chesterwy
Last manual I had was a 98 Chevy half ton extended cab. It was a pickup that someone had custom ordered. Between the five speed, flow master exhaust, and smaller 5.0 (305) vortec engine. That thing got the best fuel mileage I’ve seen out of a full size pickup. Usually around 20 MPG.


Dad’s last farm truck he bought that I mentioned earlier in this thread is a 92 Chevy 2500 with the 350 and manual 5-speed gets 16 mpg. And it’s got 350K miles on it now.

Last edited by chlinstructor; 04/30/21.

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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by K1500
Most A/T’s in trucks can be started in 2 in low traction conditions (lookup first gear lockout). In addition, the TC/stability control can be turned off with a button when needed. I’m guessing they saved quite a few wrecks over the years. Many even have throttle mapping settings that can remap the throttle settings when off road or in low traction situations. The Luddite in me likes driving sticks, but they don’t really give an advantage over most newer autos.




Bullshidt. They don't turn off. They do lessen, but the ones I've driven never turn off. I'm sure they are neat and help folks who can't drive. I'd like the option to not have it.

It's like having a semi-auto pistol with a safety that automatically engages every time you pull the trigger. "you can just turn it off"


With most systems is will at least partially reengage when speed exceeds a certain value. If you really want it off you can pull the fuse or even better, run the circuit through a simple toggle switch on your dash. Flip a switch and it’s totally off. I’ve never noticed it to be an issue by simply turning it off with the built in button, but maybe I don’t know what I’m missing.

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Originally Posted by K1500
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by K1500
Most A/T’s in trucks can be started in 2 in low traction conditions (lookup first gear lockout). In addition, the TC/stability control can be turned off with a button when needed. I’m guessing they saved quite a few wrecks over the years. Many even have throttle mapping settings that can remap the throttle settings when off road or in low traction situations. The Luddite in me likes driving sticks, but they don’t really give an advantage over most newer autos.




Bullshidt. They don't turn off. They do lessen, but the ones I've driven never turn off. I'm sure they are neat and help folks who can't drive. I'd like the option to not have it.

It's like having a semi-auto pistol with a safety that automatically engages every time you pull the trigger. "you can just turn it off"


With most systems is will at least partially reengage when speed exceeds a certain value. If you really want it off you can pull the fuse or even better, run the circuit through a simple toggle switch on your dash. Flip a switch and it’s totally off. I’ve never noticed it to be an issue by simply turning it off with the built in button, but maybe I don’t know what I’m missing.

I’m with Gruff on this one. I explained it to a guy at work like this the other day. If I want to drive across a terrace in the pasture and there’s mud on the backside I have to lock out the T/C to allow some wheel spin to clean the tread and push me through. A push of the button “turns it off” until you slide sideways just a little because you’re cutting across on an angle, then the stupid stability control cuts the fuel and you’re stuck. When my warranty runs out I’m seriously looking at a custom tune to turn the traction control off permanently. It’s my only complaint with my truck and I hate it.

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You push once to turn off TC. You push and hold for 3 seconds or so to turn off both TC and Stabilittack. With both off, my truck will let me get as stupid as I want to be. Are you are sure you are turning stability control off?

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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!

Put the AT in “2”.


Or in the case of the 6-spd auto in a Super-Duty, you can select manual mode and also start in 3rd..........

I drove a manual transmission'd daily driver from the time I was 14 until I was almost 30. I still have a manual 5-spd in my street-rod and it's 2nd nature/muscle-memory for me to get in and drive a manual again. That said, there's NOTHING about a manual I'd want over the automatic in my F250. In manual mode my F250 shifts faster w/the +/- buttons on the stalk than one can jam gears in a manual, especially down-shifting.


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Originally Posted by K1500
You push once to turn off TC. You push and hold for 3 seconds or so to turn off both TC and Stabilittack. With both off, my truck will let me get as stupid as I want to be. Are you are sure you are turning stability control off?



Lol. Yes I am quite sure.

[bleep] things should be an option. I hate a computer second guessing me. When I speak to my truck with I out from my hands and feet it should do wtf I tell it to.


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I understand, and my questions was actually directed at The Kid. In any event, it unfortunately is the way of the world now. I would consider wiring in a switch that cuts power to the TC/ESC module. It should be easy to do and would 100% disable it.

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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!


I have two toyotas with autos that will allow you to start in 2nd.

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Plenty of trucks that will start in something other than 1st.

Tried starting in 3rd with about 14k on behind the F350 yesterday, quickly hit the button 2x and was rolling in short order.


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man, just when I was starting to feel like a grumpy old codger, this thread made me feel better about me.

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Auto/Manual?

Whichever I had, there would be times I wished for the other.

Manuals most of my 36 years with a license. And before.
Including all kinds up to 18 speeds in trucks.


I can do thing with a manual you just can't do with an automatic.
Using the clutch let's you rock better than an auto any day.
Every once in awhile you might just want wide open in a year
without shifting. Or lugging without a shift.

Sure, new autos look like you can manually shift them.

Try getting it to lug down, or try to bump the governor.
Get back to me if you can.

Or, try to start in 3rd on ice..
You might get to use. 2nd.
But in the newer ones, 2nd is still pretty low.

An auto is sure nice 99% of the time.
In certain butt puckered steep places.


But once in awhile, a good driver can do better if he has control.

If they ever get DCT figured out for normal vehicles, and give real
manual control, they will rule. 99.7% of the time.😁


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I'm going to be having shoulder surgery soon on my left side. My pickup has a m/t. It's going to be interesting to see how I can drive it for 6 weeks. If it didn't have power steering, it would be hopeless.

One thing that's hard to do for drivers untrained with m/t's is getting one moving on a steep hill. My Dodge diesel almost takes the fun out of it. Cummins has what's called ZTL, or zero throttle launch. You slowly release the brake while you slowly let out the clutch. Keep your foot off the throttle. When it starts to stall, the computer takes over and gets it going for you, nice and easy. The ZTL disengages when you push the throttle.


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Haven't seen a full size manual transmission pickup new on a lot in years. Think the last one was a 2010 GMC 4x4 work truck.

Learned to drive on farm tractors and field trucks, long before I was old enough for a license. Enjoy driving a manual now and then. Only one I have left, is a ratty Bronco II at hunting camp.


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I can't speak for the pickup V8s but that's normal Olin an inline 6.

Even pulling 80k in a truck, starting on a hill, ease out the clutch, don't touch
the throttle until the clutch is out.

Driving a Cummins pickup since 93, big trucks since 90, our garage guys
laughed at me driving a wrecker. I'd stall the gas ones. Just too used
to diesel.


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I know this thread is old, but thought a post COVID update would be appreciated. I looked at pickups from all of the big 3 makers. While they all are VERY nice, most can't even give you a true short bed (6 feet). Forget a full sized 8 foot bed unless you get into the 3500 series. And the prices! FFS...$80k for a push button plastic POS?

Sorry, I will keep driving the old 2003 GMC 2500 HD with the 8.1l Vortec till she needs a rebuild. That rock solid ZF6 German engineered tranny just keeps getting the job done. 236000 miles and counting.

In fact, the old GM square bodies are quite appealing. I must be getting old!

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I agree I was in the market for a newer truck but I Refuse to pay these prices it’s out of line. I’ll keep driving my 2000 F250 with a 7.3L. I’d love a newer truck but there is no need for a base model 4 door 4x4 to cost over 65k. Also good luck finding an 8’ bed.

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This is 2023, not 1973. There is a reason they don't put manuals in trucks anymore. Newer gas engines aren't designed to work with them. My old 1980's F150 got it's torque at 2000-2500 rpm. My current F150 needs 3800 rpm and many trucks over 4600 rpm to develop torque. Try backing a trailer or maneuvering in a tight spot with a manual that needs that much engine speed to get things moving. The torque converter in an automatic makes that much easier. It also eliminates the need to start in 2nd gear.

And I've never driven an automatic that couldn't manually be placed in the best gear for the situation. Too many automatic drivers just want to put it in "D" and forget about it. If I'm loaded or towing heavy, or driving in mountains I'm manually changing gears quite often, especially going down.

You could make an argument that manuals could still work well with diesel engines. But today's automatics do everything better. They last just as long and give no more problems than manuals. They stopped putting manuals in buses over 40 years ago. Virtually all other big trucks including Semi's are now using automatics.

I will concede that driving a manual can be fun and I do enjoy it. That is why they are still offered in small trucks like Tacoma, Wranglers, and some sports cars. But I wouldn't be interested in a manual transmission in any truck made in the last 30 years. If you want a truck to work with automatics are better.


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Pretty well said JMR. I have an Aisin in my Dodge. Had two 6 speed manuals in Dodges before this one and all I can say is how much this auto works.


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Originally Posted by JMR40
And I've never driven an automatic that couldn't manually be placed in the best gear for the situation. Too many automatic drivers just want to put it in "D" and forget about it. If I'm loaded or towing heavy, or driving in mountains I'm manually changing gears quite often, especially going down.


That doesn't meet the need here. I'm going to go so far as to say "you're wrong" but I'm going to try to explain why so as not to start a fight. smile It is pretty mountainous here. One of my favorite roads .. gets me to my hunting spot .. is steep in sections and curvy in sections but it also has some flat and straight, some flat and curvy, some steep and straight. The conditions change so quickly that changing what gear you're in with an automatic is an absolute pain in the ass. It'll cost 10-15 minutes driving from hunting to home .. at least it does me. The problem is that the shifters on the automatics aren't intuitive / "by feel" well enough.

Picture coming down a long hill straight ahead at 65-70 going into some 30-35 mph turns, a short straight stretch, maybe a little uphill, then another steeper drop with turns, straights, etc. It's easy with a stick, it's a pain in the ass with an automatic. You could just slow down but if you do you'll trigger a road rage incident from the people behind you who are more able to drive the road conditions. I don't want to be that self-centered dick behind the wheel.


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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.

Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!
Millions of people have driven automatics in snow for forever now and they lived to tell about it.


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Originally Posted by smarquez
Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.

Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!
Millions of people have driven automatics in snow for forever now and they lived to tell about it.
Yeah never mind that my super modern 1979 Ford C6 3spd auto will start and stay in 2nd gear if you put the gear shifter in 2.

Having lived in a place that required one to drive on ice and snow daily for up to 7 months a year for a decade and having owned both auto and manual equipped trucks as daily drivers during that time, I would much rather drive an auto in slick conditions.

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Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by JMR40
And I've never driven an automatic that couldn't manually be placed in the best gear for the situation. Too many automatic drivers just want to put it in "D" and forget about it. If I'm loaded or towing heavy, or driving in mountains I'm manually changing gears quite often, especially going down.


That doesn't meet the need here. I'm going to go so far as to say "you're wrong" but I'm going to try to explain why so as not to start a fight. smile It is pretty mountainous here. One of my favorite roads .. gets me to my hunting spot .. is steep in sections and curvy in sections but it also has some flat and straight, some flat and curvy, some steep and straight. The conditions change so quickly that changing what gear you're in with an automatic is an absolute pain in the ass. It'll cost 10-15 minutes driving from hunting to home .. at least it does me. The problem is that the shifters on the automatics aren't intuitive / "by feel" well enough.

Picture coming down a long hill straight ahead at 65-70 going into some 30-35 mph turns, a short straight stretch, maybe a little uphill, then another steeper drop with turns, straights, etc. It's easy with a stick, it's a pain in the ass with an automatic. You could just slow down but if you do you'll trigger a road rage incident from the people behind you who are more able to drive the road conditions. I don't want to be that self-centered dick behind the wheel.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you haven't driven anything 2011/2012 or newer with a manual-mode automatic transmission. You put the auto's gear-selector in "M" and use the +/- button on the shift-stalk of the HD pickups or console shifter in most 1/2tn's. That +/- button shifts faster than you can gear-jam a true manual. My 6-spd can start in 3rd if I wish. I haven't run any of the newer 8/9/10spd autos in the newer pickups yet but that 6-spd in my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc.

I've got a 5-spd Tremec in a 2800# car w/400HP 406CID small-block that I drive 700-1000Mi/summer. It's a fun car with that engine/transmission combo and keeps me plenty tuned up to jump in and drive pretty much any manual transmission but the only way I'd go back to a manual in a pickup is if I wanted to ensure that my wife was never tempted to drive it.


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Originally Posted by TheKid
Originally Posted by smarquez
Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.

Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!
Millions of people have driven automatics in snow for forever now and they lived to tell about it.
Yeah never mind that my super modern 1979 Ford C6 3spd auto will start and stay in 2nd gear if you put the gear shifter in 2.

Having lived in a place that required one to drive on ice and snow daily for up to 7 months a year for a decade and having owned both auto and manual equipped trucks as daily drivers during that time, I would much rather drive an auto in slick conditions.

Yep, autos sure are nice up here on icy alaskan roads. My 1992 cummins, if you let off the clutch too quickly shifting gears, that rear-end would kick out, due to all the engine compression. Or even letting off the throttle too quickly going down hill. Even with studded snow tires, it could get scary. Whereas a nice auto unlocks, and also acts like a big shock absorber.

On my 2002 7.3 powerstroke, I chose an auto truck over the manual truck, I tested both. I felt that the manual truck came off boost during shifts, then you'd have to work through some turbo lag getting into the next gear. Not the case with the auto, stays right on boost through every shift.

My truck driver buddy picked me up in Delta last year. Hauled a load of conveyor belts to Anchorage. He was trucking all the way from Alabama. His new big rig had an Auto. Gawdmn did that thing shift nicely. He was less fatigued the end of the day but did miss running gears in certain situations.

Now my 1968 k20 with 292 chevy inline six. Yep, that sucker is getting a rebuilt sm 465 4 speed. I'm selling my th-400 auto. A manual sure is nice towing with a smallish motor that lacks power.

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Originally Posted by horse1
my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc. .


If by SMOKES you mean out runs it on a short hill, you may be correct. Pull 20K up a 40 mile grade and your AT will overheat and hate you enough to quit. When it comes to maintenance, I put a clutch in every 350K, you rebuild every 100K.


Yep, autos sure are nice up here on icy alaskan roads. My 1992 cummins, if you let off the clutch too quickly shifting gears, that rear-end would kick out, due to all the engine compression. Or even letting off the throttle too quickly going down hill.


I don't know how this can be as diesel engines don't operate on a vacuum like gas engines do. Gas with a "posi" I completely understand - that's why there is a clutch. Has to be operator error.


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Originally Posted by horse1
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you haven't driven anything 2011/2012 or newer with a manual-mode automatic transmission. You put the auto's gear-selector in "M" and use the +/- button on the shift-stalk of the HD pickups or console shifter in most 1/2tn's. That +/- button shifts faster than you can gear-jam a true manual. My 6-spd can start in 3rd if I wish. I haven't run any of the newer 8/9/10spd autos in the newer pickups yet but that 6-spd in my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc.

I've got a 5-spd Tremec in a 2800# car w/400HP 406CID small-block that I drive 700-1000Mi/summer. It's a fun car with that engine/transmission combo and keeps me plenty tuned up to jump in and drive pretty much any manual transmission but the only way I'd go back to a manual in a pickup is if I wanted to ensure that my wife was never tempted to drive it.


You'd be wrong on that limb. Buying a truck with an automatic was the single most expensive mistake I've ever made. I had a 2014 F250 for a few months .. and got rid of it taking over $20K loss in the process to get back to a stick shift.


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Bart, I must have not explained this well enough:

That 1992 W-350 cummins had an extremely harsh/heavy duty clutch. I could be on flat gravel, at idle, let off the clutch slowly, wouldn't matter. The fkn clutch would hook up, and bury those tires at idle.


So going down an icy/steep grade, when shifting, the engine compression of that diesel and the the harshness of that clutch, you had to be extremely careful. Yep, rear end had a Detroit locker.

I live on the tallest hill from Fairbanks to the Canadian border, she's a sketchy one with LOTS of accidents.

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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by horse1
my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc. .


If by SMOKES you mean out runs it on a short hill, you may be correct. Pull 20K up a 40 mile grade and your AT will overheat and hate you enough to quit. When it comes to maintenance, I put a clutch in every 350K, you rebuild every 100K.


Yep, autos sure are nice up here on icy alaskan roads. My 1992 cummins, if you let off the clutch too quickly shifting gears, that rear-end would kick out, due to all the engine compression. Or even letting off the throttle too quickly going down hill.


I don't know how this can be as diesel engines don't operate on a vacuum like gas engines do. Gas with a "posi" I completely understand - that's why there is a clutch. Has to be operator error.

Why would the auto heat up if it’s locked up properly and it’s working correctly? The Aisin in mine gains a few degrees on really hard pulls but it’s never come close to overheating with the 42ft toy hauler but I’m only 28-32k combined so maybe you’re pulling more weight.

I’ve got no bones about the manuals, they treated me well but this auto hasn’t had a blip so far and works amazing if operated sanely.


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Sand and Ice Ill take an auto over a manual all day. Lose momentum on shifts on beach sand, sickening feeling when truck stalls on uphill grades on ice then its like an out of control sled sliding backwards! With an auto you can sometimes control decent!


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by horse1
my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc. .


If by SMOKES you mean out runs it on a short hill, you may be correct. Pull 20K up a 40 mile grade and your AT will overheat and hate you enough to quit. When it comes to maintenance, I put a clutch in every 350K, you rebuild every 100K.


Yep, autos sure are nice up here on icy alaskan roads. My 1992 cummins, if you let off the clutch too quickly shifting gears, that rear-end would kick out, due to all the engine compression. Or even letting off the throttle too quickly going down hill.


I don't know how this can be as diesel engines don't operate on a vacuum like gas engines do. Gas with a "posi" I completely understand - that's why there is a clutch. Has to be operator error.

Why would the auto heat up if it’s locked up properly and it’s working correctly? The Aisin in mine gains a few degrees on really hard pulls but it’s never come close to overheating with the 42ft toy hauler but I’m only 28-32k combined so maybe you’re pulling more weight.

I’ve got no bones about the manuals, they treated me well but this auto hasn’t had a blip so far and works amazing if operated sanely.

Ive got a 2017 3500 with a manual, and a 2018 4500 with the aisin. I usually drive the manual. I prefer it when pulling farm equipment (no brakes), just pick a gear and go.

This spring, we bought a 25k gooseneck trailer. My 3500 is legal for 26k and the 4500 is good for 32-33k. I've been driving the 4500 a lot more, to maximize the trailer. Anyways, I've been paying extra attention to my temps under load. Today with a fully loaded trailer (18k), my transmission temp only went up 6 degrees, in a 4 hour drive.

The best part about the aisin is the tow/haul mode and the exhaust brake. When your getting off an exit, you just tap the brake and it'll damn near stop you by the end of the ramp.

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Same here Ben. Mines a pulling SOB and I’ve never seen anything close to a heat issue.

Dig the Aisin/exhaust brake and tow haul. It works amazing.


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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by horse1
my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc. .


If by SMOKES you mean out runs it on a short hill, you may be correct. Pull 20K up a 40 mile grade and your AT will overheat and hate you enough to quit. When it comes to maintenance, I put a clutch in every 350K, you rebuild every 100K.

I'm @ 220K Mi (I put them all on, bought it new) and haven't touched the transmission yet save for a couple of fluid/filter swaps.

Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by horse1
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you haven't driven anything 2011/2012 or newer with a manual-mode automatic transmission. You put the auto's gear-selector in "M" and use the +/- button on the shift-stalk of the HD pickups or console shifter in most 1/2tn's. That +/- button shifts faster than you can gear-jam a true manual. My 6-spd can start in 3rd if I wish. I haven't run any of the newer 8/9/10spd autos in the newer pickups yet but that 6-spd in my '11 F250 6.7L Ford SMOKES every manual transmission for towing, climbing, engine-braking, etc, etc, etc.

I've got a 5-spd Tremec in a 2800# car w/400HP 406CID small-block that I drive 700-1000Mi/summer. It's a fun car with that engine/transmission combo and keeps me plenty tuned up to jump in and drive pretty much any manual transmission but the only way I'd go back to a manual in a pickup is if I wanted to ensure that my wife was never tempted to drive it.


You'd be wrong on that limb. Buying a truck with an automatic was the single most expensive mistake I've ever made. I had a 2014 F250 for a few months .. and got rid of it taking over $20K loss in the process to get back to a stick shift.

Was it the automatic transmission that caused you a problem or something else?


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Just bought my wife a ‘new’ used Jeep as a Mother’s Day surprise. 2013. She had been casually looking for a year and she required a manual. The amount of people amazed at the 6 speed manual is funny. Everybody loves it. Such a novelty.

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Originally Posted by Cheesy
Just bought my wife a ‘new’ used Jeep as a Mother’s Day surprise. 2013. She had been casually looking for a year and she required a manual. The amount of people amazed at the 6 speed manual is funny. Everybody loves it. Such a novelty.

In 2023, a manual transmission is an anti-theft device.

smile


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Originally Posted by 3584ELK
PUSSY ASSED MANUFACTURERS CATERING TO MILLENIALS!
Exactly. My automatic (Aisin) does have a manual shift mode. You just push the button, and if the computer thinks the shift is a good idea, it will, eventually, shift. I would love to have the same truck with a manual transmission. Add in a manually activated exhaust brake and I would love it. GD

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Originally Posted by greydog
Originally Posted by 3584ELK
PUSSY ASSED MANUFACTURERS CATERING TO MILLENIALS!
Exactly. My automatic (Aisin) does have a manual shift mode. You just push the button, and if the computer thinks the shift is a good idea, it will, eventually, shift. I would love to have the same truck with a manual transmission. Add in a manually activated exhaust brake and I would love it. GD

I had two nearly the same trucks before with manuals and I’m not sure they’d do any better than what the Aisin does. Not saying it’s perfect but it’s not bad compared to the two previous manual Cummins.


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