Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada What small fry cartridges do you shoot?

This is one of mine - a 22 K-Hornet. It was reamed out by Ellwood Epps' grandson for me. I called this my "tactical" Hornet because I put a bipod and cheek piece on it for a picture shoot. Here's another clearer picture, before it became tactical. I had a 3-10 Bushnell on it, but changed to a 2-7 Burris.

The K-Hornet and 40 grain VMaxes take everything from vermin up to coyotes for me.



If you are unfamiliar with the design, it's an inexpensive New England Firearms single shot that started as a 22 Hornet, with an odd (for a hornet) 1 in 12 twist. It came out of the factory that way. It stabilizes 55 grain bullets at slower speeds.

Does anyone shoot any of the old timers? The Hornets, Bees, Wasps or another? 220 Swift, 225 Win?

Some K-Hornet brass.



What small fry cartridges do you shoot?

Does a .357 Mag. carbine count?






GR

Love my older CZ .22 Hornet! Wish I had a .218 Bee lever gun - maybe someday.

You bet! That is a sweet looking rifle! They are about $1400 around here, when available. I'd love to get one.



That's a cool cartridge as well. Is brass hard to come by?

I have one of those in 44 Rem Mag. Lots of fun, it has become a favourite of mine.
My small fry guns are a Ruger American in 22-250, and a 10/22 from 1972 or 73.
Plenty of fun to shoot!
Jeff

In the .22 calibre field it isn't a small fry but I have a .220 Swift (well you asked). I got it when Remington made it as a limited production Classic, in 1982 I believe. It is the oldest gun I have ever purchased and still retain.

Jim

.17 FB, Cooper single shot varmint weight is the smallest CF rifle I own. Neat little cartridge that will go 4,000 fps with a 20 gr bullet utilizing 20 grs of powder.

Am I the only one shooting the wildly popular Westley Richards Cadet in the cutting edge 8mm/.310 Greener?

351 win sl

Hornady makes it and in normal times, it’s relatively available.

Remington 700 Classic in 221 Fireball. Loves 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips.

99

Just getting back into a 222 in the form of a 70s vintage M700 Varmint Special.

How about a 45 Colt in a Rossi Ranch Hand shooting 255 grain home cast SWC with a light load of Trail Boss that gives me 575 ft per sec. Also works in my Ruger Vaquero.

I think we will have a harder time finding it up here.

I put a scope on another small fry this morning. This is a T3 HB in 222 Rem. The scope is a 6-24 Elite 4200. As you can see, it weighs close to 11 pounds.



......

Is a non- Canuck allowed to reply?

If so....

.17 Rem

.222 ( The fave....)

.223

.223AI

That scope has more knobs than our liberal gov't.

It's what we used to call a work scope.

I should hope they’d allow it!

Without you and your kinfolk crossing that short-lived land bridge between Asia and North America, there wouldn’t be any Canucks.

You never did share that tale about you fighting a Sabertooth barehanded....

Sure you can reply. You have the 2nd amendment. Us northern cousins will soon be at the point where we will need a licence to even talk about firearms if we keep electing liberal commies like Justine Trudeau.

I have said this before ingwe, but you have good taste.

The 222 is my favourite as well.

Nothing fancy here. I do have a 12" barreled contender with K Hornet chambering. I was shooting a plastic tipped fragile (varmint) 35 gr bullet as a pretty good clip for such a small case. I may get a 22 K long gun if I can snag one. Nice setup Steve. Be Well, RZ.

Thanks. I wish we could hunt up here with handguns. Your Contender sounds like a useful, fun thing!

32ACP 351 and 401 Winchester

.221 Fireball in a CZ that is spooky accurate not much muzzle blast and 40 grain slugs just bang flop groundhogs. Just started load work up in a .222 10" Contender. Got a 4 X Leopold mounted last week and initial load work up seems promising. I'm looking forward to figuring out the drop at 200 yards which is the longest I'm likely to have where I hunt.

218 Bee, 22 Mag, 222 Rem 204...

Since I got my CZ in 22 Mag the 218Bee(Marlin 1894CL) has a new home and I gave my 22H (Savage 219) to my niece for her first varmint rifle. So just a couple left.

22 Mag
222 Rem
20 Practical
22-204
6mm-204
25-204
22-250

Nice. Do you have a favourite from the list?

TCR 87 .22 Hornet reamed out to .22 K Hornet. Just getting started and fire forming cases. Learned the hard way that Sellier and Belloit .22 Hornet cases have smaller flash holes than US brass.

Prvi brass is good. I bought 200 cases, pictured up top, and have had no failures.

PP and Winchester brass are the only two brands I have ever fireformed into the K. I've been lucky.

The smallest center-fire cartridge that I shoot is .357 magnum.

While I have a 1978 Blackhawk revolver as well, I most like my newer Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum.

- It's light, handy, short (18 1/2" bbl.) and traditional with two barrel bands.
- You can shoot cast bullet .38 special equivalent hand loads in it for fun and small game.
- You can shoot 1800 FPS / 158 grain JSP hand loads in it for whitetail deer.

A very versatile cartridge in a carbine.

They are very handy. I have a Model 92 357 lever that I use it for pests. I got a sale on 125 gr jacketed HP bullets many years ago. They aren't particularly accurate, but do quite well at short range.

A cartridge that I think might have been really useful is a wildcat that I probably re-invented while messing around at the reloading bench one day.

I took a nickeled once-fired .38 Special case and reformed it in a 7.63 Mauser pistol resizing die, using a .38 special shell holder.
Then, using the other dies I loaded a 100 grain Speer Plinker round nose with a half jacket.
I used a light 7.63 Mauser load of Unique in it.
It Looked like it would have made a really good cartridge for a small frame Remington Rolling Block, as well as a snappy Blackhawk revolver cartridge.
A .357 magnum case would have been even better.

Anyway, having no firearm to use my new creation in, I was off to the weekend gun show, with it tucked in my watch pocket. I ran into my good friend, Tim Falconer (now deceased) who was a collector of local note in his day.

Since he had a Cartridge Collector display this time, I sat with him at his table. When he wasn't looking I placed my wildcat at the end of a row of cartridges that were standing on the table.

Later, I asked him about those cartridges and he rattled off their history until he came to mine, whereupon he said something like "What the fork?"
He liked it so I gave it to him.
Fun times.

saddlegun;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the day was decent for you folks on the east side of the big hills and all who you care about are well.

The cartridge you describe was made by a member here Digital Dan - I want to say he called it the .30 Wheezer or Sneezer?

It was at the same time he was showing us his work with a .22 rimfire reloadable center fire as I recall.

If I can find the thread I'll put it up - it looks really, really useful to me as one could load lead bullets or buckshot for an overgrown BB gun sort of load.

Thanks for sharing your experiment and twigging my memory.

All the best.

Dwayne

saddlegun;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope the day's breaking bright and clear for you folks.

I've reached out to Dan and he's graciously found a link for you or anyone interested in the path he took.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10716355/1

More discussion on it.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16035324/anyone#Post16035324

A public thanks for the links to Dan and good luck to anyone embarking on a worthy project.

All the best.

Dwayne

Thanks Dwayne. There aren't many Canadians who reload though. Of those who do, I hope saddlegun finds this information useful. Dan often posts his results in the Ask the Gunwriters forum.

My thanks to BC30cal for his efforts.
However, the aforementioned wildcat cartridge that I made up was a long time ago, and was just for fun. I have no interest in revisiting it at this point in my life, or creating a firearm to fire it.

Steve Redgwell, I think that you are very much mistaken when you state that there are not many Canadians who reload. There must be many or else there would not be so many Canadian sources to acquire reloading supplies and tools from.

Practically every decent gun shop in every Canadian city sells tools and accessories, powder, primers, and bullets, and there are several on-line retailers that specialize in it as well. Cabelas and Bass Pro stock reloading supplies and tools as well.

Hunters and occasional shooters don't reload for the most part, but there are many other shooters who do.

I hope you're right, saddlegun. I have posted a new article at my site, 303british.com - for reloaders of jacketed, flat base bullets who don't like the resistance they feel when seating jacketed bullets in cases.

saddlegun;
Good afternoon sir, I hope the day's still bright and sunny on your side of the hills and that all things remotely in your control are going according to plan.

Thanks for the reply and further clarification. For sure while we're perhaps at a point where this or that arm is not in our "want" list anymore, I like to read and learn about what other folks are doing.

Then too, one never knows what drops in one's lap these days as there's sometimes folks getting out of shooting or just safe cleaning to afford the next shooting venture.

For instance I didn't think I needed a .357 Mag carbine... until I did, so I got one and can't figure out why it took so long for me to get one. Ditto a .223 too somehow - but yet another case of too soon old and too late smart in my case!

On the topic of reloading, perhaps it is somewhat of a regional thing too? I'm not sure really, but here in the south Okanagan it's not easy to find a sporting goods store that stocks "odd cartridges" so most of the shooters I know reload. Now not all are certifiable rifle loonies like I apparently am, but then some are way, WAY more into it than I am too so I don't feel that bad, you know?

All the best once again sir.

Dwayne

BC30cal, I load .44-40, not so much because I like reloading this cartridge, or because I like to stuff them full of black powder, but because it's the only way that I can shoot my rifle.

I got a good deal on a plain round-barrelled Winchester Miroku short rifle so I grabbed it.
It would have been easier if it had been in .45 Colt but .44-40 was the original cartridge and that's what it was in. I could take it or leave it. I took it and I'm glad I did.

In this Covid world, the old "odd" cartridges like 44-40, 38-40, 32-20, 25-20, 38-55, which had previously had limited availability if you looked around for them, have disappeared everywhere. Just before this prices soared to $100.00 CAD a box for .44-40 !

However, Starline brass remains available from several sources, and I bought a Lee 200 grain bullet mold for my .44-40.

Also, even brass for a .25-20 rifle has become pure unobtanium, but Starline .32-20 brass, which is available, can easily be formed into .25-20.

So reloading may be your only option if you want to shoot the "odd" cartridges, as I am sure you already know.

Well, I have my Browning Low Wall Hornet, which doesn’t get out enough because I keep messing with other stuff, and a couple of .223s, which probably shouldn’t count. Also have a Low Wall .44 mag that’s a pleasure to shoot at full throttle or idled back with Trail Boss. Have been looking at .357 rifles, and am pretty close to getting a Henry SS and sending the barrel to Mike Bellm for “improving”.

The latest is below. Not a cartridge, but definitely a small fry, using between 15 and 30gr of powder with a .36 RB. Unfired as yet, as I’m concentrating on turkeys right now, but I have all the goodies ready.

Pedersoli Cook Pistol, an authentic reproduction of one from days of yore.....

Wow, that's a handsome gun, Pappy! Truly elegant!

Steve,

The small fry cartridges are fun.

Besides the big small fry cartridges .222 and up.

I shoot Hornets in several rifles - Anschutz- Kimbers , couple No -Name bolt guns, etc- and pistols ....... Exemplar -Contender.

.218 Bee in Winchester 43's ( much over-rated rifle) and a 65 lever.

.221 Fireball original rem, and more.

All a lot of fun.. For many many years I bought all the amoo I could find in said cals. often in small shops and hardware stores, lotsa brass for reloading.

They sure are! There are lots of great things about small cartridges. I think the biggest reasons are they're cheap to feed and can be used year round. A pound of powder can be stretched a long way.

That was smart to buy up ammunition. Back when most hardware stores and rural stores sold ammunition, you could come across some real gems. There was a small place just outside of Orillia that used to carry ammunition. The young guy who ran the place said his grandfather hunted, so they carried loaded ammunition. Some of it was no good to me, but I should have bought it up when I could. I think they carried 218 Bee ammunition. 45 or 46 grain loads? At the time I thought, well, I have a Hornet. No need for a Bee!

saddlegun;
Good morning to you sir, I hope the day's a wee bit more sunny for you folks than it is here - but then if you need the rain like we do... anyways I hope all is well as can be in your world.

It's cool to read your experience with the Miroku - the ones I've looked at were truly wonderfully built in every way I thought.

When I was a kid, my buddy's Dad had a worn '92 - the ones with that ugly gumwood that didn't stain up at all - in .44-40 that I fell in love with.

It's funny that I lusted after several originals and then a Miroku or two for most of my life before finally picking up a Chiappa clone in .357 a few years ago. This Chiappa seems very nicely made and functions fine so far - but to be honest I just plink with it.

For sure though I've picked up a couple screaming deals over the years because they were handloading proposals only. Our youngest daughter's hunting rifle was a 722 action with an RKS stainless match barrel in .250AI that buddy couldn't sell. If it'd been a .243 or even a .250 he said he'd have had lots of buyers, but nobody wanted to fool with an Ackley Improved.

Since there was already a .22-250AI in the safe, it turned out I was pretty fluent in AI speak, bought it for a very reasonable price and she used it for years.

The same goes for a pair of .308 Norma's in the safe. The last time I saw factory ammo for one and looked at the price I needed to go to the car for more heart meds! I can't imagine what they'd ask for a box now.

All that to say that for sure I get where you're coming from with keeping the old and odd rounds percolating.

All the best and thanks for the pleasant exchange sir.

Dwayne

Hello BC30cal

The Miroku 1873 that I own surpasses all of my Marlins in fit and finish. And I do very much like my Marlin lever guns.

The only other lever gun that I own that compares is my Japanese-made Browning BL-22 Grade 2, which has receiver engraving and beautiful figured wood with a glossy finish.
It's one of my bucket list guns. Both guns have a silky smooth metal finish, as smooth as polished glass.

Loading cartridges through the port in the 1873 is a slick as grease.
Functioning is flawless.
Accuracy is surprisingly good.
The only fault is that the rear sight sits too high because the front sight is too high.
Miroku appears to have used a replacement stepped sight elevator to compensate, which lifts the rear sight a bit higher.
The wood is plain and fairly unimpressive, but high quality walnut.

Anyone contemplating buying one however, should be aware that the drop in the stock is completely authentic, and is too low to achieve a modern comfortable cheek weld.

Contemplating this, the stock configuration appears very much like the old Hawken and J. Henry Plains rifles that preceeded the 1860 Henry and 1866 and 1873 Winchesters, which must have been the same.

I hope that, having grown up within sight of the church towers of Brockville, Ontario, and having married a beautiful girl whose grandparents all came from Canada, I can join this thread. My .222 doesn't see much use now, neither does my .220 Swift, although I'm currently playing with it. The smallest rifle I generally play with is a Marlin 94 in .25-20 WCF. For some reason I've been intrigued by that cartridge since I was a kid. My son has the rifle currently and is as fascinated by the cartridge as I am. He's been forming .25-20 brass from .32-20's, which case is kept somewhat more alive by the cowboy shooters. The earlier poster on this thread talking about .218 Bee availability can do the same thing. One of my someday projects is to rebarrel one of the Ruger 77/357's to .25-20...why be practical? I guess we could, in the context of this thread, mention the .30 Carbine, another of my pet "little cartridges."

Those have been on my maybe list for a while. Now, of course, they’re pretty scarce. An alternative would be the lovely M53, which would require acquiring all the loading goodies too.

Last year, I picked up a 92 Centennial .44, but accuracy was disappointing with loads that shoot very well in my LW, so down the road it went. The twist in the 92s is only 1-38, but that should’ve been fine with the bullets I tried. Can’t win ‘em all.

I found a Handi 44 Magnum cheap. I am not sure what loads to try. Probably start with the ones I use in my Model 92.

I know the Handis are good guns, but they kinda leave me cold. I like the Henrys much better. If I was going to scope one, that's what I’d get now. The Low Wall is pretty dang accurate with its tang sight. My eyes struggle, but I can still do okay in decent light. It’s Hell for pretty!

I know what you mean about the Handis. Tbey can be made better by replacing the stock though.

Ihad bad luck with a few of them. The only Handi I regretted selling was a 308 Survivor. It shot well and no issues.

The worst was a 30-30. The rifle was poorly assembled.

I have a few small caliber centre fires but the one I most enjoy shooting is one of the granddaddy’s of the small calibers, the 22 Savage Hi Power in a takedown Savage 1899 model H. It’s a challenge to keep these old guns fed as most bullet companies have discontinued their .228 caliber bullets. I am told 70 grain Sisks and Speer bullets were the cat’s meow for these guns but alas they were both discontinued long before I acquired my 22 HP.

I use an RCBS 60 grain mould designed for the 22 HP to cast and size the bullets at .228. Powered by a light charge of Red Dot they are accurate and inexpensive. For small game the same cast bullet with a charge of Trail Boss can approximate 22LR hi velocity ammunition. The cases are reformed from 30-30 cases. First neck to 25 caliber, then to a 25-35 full length resizing die then finish on the 22 HP FL sizing die. Some cases are lost in the process but 30-30 cases are abundant. Once reformed they last a long time with mild charges and cast bullets.

It requires some work but it’s well worth the effort to keep these guns shooting. The European 5.6x52R is close the 22 HP and will chamber and fire but I have never tried any. Some say the 1 in 14 twist of the Savage barrels is too slow to stabilize them.

Nick

It's worth the effort. At the end of the day, you're happy and what you create is useful.

I shoot a bunch of small stuff. .22 Win mag, .22 Hornet ( Both Anschutz) three .222's ( Anschutz, Sako, CZ ZKK) and a couple pistol cartridge carbines in .357, ( Win M92 and Ruger 77/357)
Fun, useful, and cheap to shoot.

I enjoy shooting a .32-20 Remington rolling block, made in the 1880s. It won't reach out like the 20th century cartridges, but it's fun to fool with.

You should post pictures if you can. I like single shots. Rolling blocks are sweet rifles. Not too many years ago, you could buy a lot of them here in Canada. Many were rebarreled and are still used today.

My two favorites are a 20 Vartarg and 20 Tactical, both in Copper Model 21's

My pipsqueaks:

1. German kiplauf 5.6x35R (.22WCF essentially)
2. Winchester M54 .22 K-Hornet (converted by Lysle Kilbourn himself)
3. Krag single shot, .22 Maximum Lovell (built by Hervey Lovell)
4. 1903 Springfield single shot, R2 Lovell (also built by Hervey Lovell)
5. Winchester High Wall R2 Lovell (unknown builder)
6. Winchester Low Wall .25-20 Single Shot (not .25-20WCF)
7. Martini Cadet, .310 Cadet
8. Savage 1899 takedowns .22 High Power, two with three barrels
9. Browning/Miroku Low Wall .223
10. A couple more Martini Cadets and BSA Model 12 patiently waiting their turn on the chopping block for conversions

.222Rem is my all time favorite, but I also shoot the .223 and 6mmBR if that is considered small.
I would've to get another KHornet some day .
Cat

i keep a 22 Hornet loaded in the garage year around to get rid of unwanted critters. i also have a few more 22 Hornet rifles, K-Hornet rifles ,17 Remington rifles , 204 Ruger rifles

The 222 is my favourite. I have three. One rifle, a 788, was an anniversary present from my wife. I've burned many pounds of 4198 with them.

.204 ruger.

Too many 22's,22mags' 17Mach2 and 17hmr's.

Centerfires- A Sav V in .22Hornet/20ga, a couple of Sav 340's and a Rem 760 in .222Rem, Win 670 .225wcf. Rem 14's in R & Carb and Mod 8 in .25 Rem.
Numerous 223's from T/C to a Keltec RDB and a Marlin 94 C/L in 32-20. Ruger 96/44, and many 250/3000Sav.

The little guys?
17 Rem, 204, 22 mag, 22 K-Hornet, 223, 220 Swift, 32-20 in revolver and rifle.
Messing with a 219 Donaldson Wasp - had to get dies for the "short" version.
Probably forgot one or two more.

I am going to play with 308 bullets in the 7.62x39mm cartridge. I think it's small fry.