Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Substituting Small Rifle For Small Pistol Primers

327 Federal Magnum in a Big Boy Steel Carbine. Is a SR hotter than a SP? Any other concerns with substituting? I'll be using H110 powder and Swift 100 grain A Frame Bullets.

Problem there is getting the sr to seat flush without deepening the pocket & yes it’s hotter but with H110 that’s may be okay.

No

Are you sure it's hotter? What do you base that on?

Should not be a problem.

You’re right it’s an overly general statement based on what would typically be true. No specific primers were mentioned, so all very “general”.

Other problem may be cup thickness causing misfires.

And I was wrong about depth!

Depth is different in large primers but NOT in small.

With the heavier strike of your big boy this should work more easily than I thought.

They are dimensionally identical. It’s the large primers that are not.

Small rifle and small pistol primers are the same height.

Usual rule of thumb is rifles chambered in pistol cartridges should use pistol primers.However, rifles (carbines,lever or what ever) will usually have enough hammer force to ignite a small rifle primer. Get those rounds mixed into cartridges used in handguns might be troublesome,but not in all cases.

Small rifle primers are the same height as small pistol

Primer Type Height Min Diameter Min
Small Rifle/Pistol 0.1150 0.1745
Large Rifle 0.1230 0.2105
Large Pistol 0.1150 0.2100

Cup thickness may be an issue in handguns due to lighter firing pin strikes but I think I’ll mess around with this myself.

Certainly will work up from starting loads...

Great info. Any concerns with the rifle primer being hotter? I don't mind backing off the starting load, but have read that backing off too much can cause safety concerns as well.

Judging from people using SRP in pistol today because of lack of SPP there is proving to be little to no difference in hotness. Cup thickness is different

Gonna depend on the specific primer brand & model.

I am using Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rest. Looking at various data sources, it looks like even with a compressed load, H110 pressure remain well below max, so that offers some margin of safety.

Never ever have air space with H110/296

Paul,
Several guys in the pistol forum have tried this. Some have been doing it for years. As you may recall, this is not the first shortage so there more experience with this out there than you might expect.

From what I've read, there seem to be few issues with revolvers and if you are really worried in your striker fired guns, just put in a heavier striker spring.

Also I'd star away from the CCI 41's which are specifically made with a heavier cup for use in AR, and CCI 450's which are magnum primers and also have heavier cups.

Standard non-magnum, non-benchrest small rifle primers shouldn't be a problem are seem to be pretty close, if in some cases not identical to small pistol magnum primers.

Overall, I'm in good shape, but have more small pistol magnum than rifle primers than small rifle, so at some point I may experiment going the other direction, but hopefully supplies lines clear up first.

Upon further research, it appears that in your particular instance you may even be better off. Apparently some .327 Federal Magnum ammunition is intentionally loaded by the factory with small rifle primers.

The load data shows all H-110 starting loads as non-compressed.

Very interesting thread ... been wondering about this myself lately although I'm just as worried about running out of small rifle primers these days as I am small pistol. I never thought I would see the day honestly having stockpiled 1000s and 1000s.

But the day has come and I am now rationing myself.

I spun off 20 rounds using 12.5 grains of H-110 pushing a 100 grain A-Frame using Starline Brass.

As I said never ever have air space with H110/296 of course you being you erratic performance probably is fine with you

Said another way, published load data shows H-110 loads with air space.

You sure about that

Tell me about the air space in published loads, I'm all ears.

The starting load with H-110 is 12.2 grains and max load is 13.2 grains

You are a complete idiot

Yes.

B. S.

The Starline brass I used is 1.2 inches long and FL sized. With 12.2 grains of H110, the case is filled to .365 inches below the mouth. From the top of the cannelure of a 100 gr XTP to the base of the bullet is .315, and Hodgdon doesn't recommend seating it that deeply. That translates to air space. Maybe the Federal brass they used was thicker than my Starline. Maybe my Lyman caliper is off. Maybe the XTP bullets I have are from a different lot and are of different dimensions than those Hodgdon used. But make no mistake about it, there is air space at 12.2 grains. That's why I went with 12.5. Because that is where, based on my observations, the base of the bullet (Swift A-Frame) just makes very light contact.

So go ahead and reel off another childish goddam retort now. It's very important for you to think I am wrong/idiot. I don't want to steal your joy.

Childish my azz, you just proved my point, little to no airspace

You are a complete idiot

Now that I have shown you to be wrong, it's "little" to no airspace.

LOL

I’m in the same situation, SCRooster. Been using the pistol primers in .22 Hornet for awhile, but never tried them in anything .223 Rem or bigger.

You are an idiot you haven't shown me to be wrong

Few years back Midway blew out Rem 6.5s pretty cheap. Bought couple sleeves for 9mm open bolt Uzi SMGs.

Discovered they work in every 9mm pistol we've had at the classes. Loaded them in .38 Spl and they're gtg, as well. None of the revolvers have lightened hammer falls, tho. See no difference in chrono readings.

I have shot north of 20K rounds of .38 Super in my STI Grandmaster nearly all with VV 3N37 and small rifle primers. 124 gr HAP @ 1400+FPS.

Supposedly CCI-400 small rifle and CCI-550 small pistol magnum primers are identical, just a change in packaging.

I don't know if it's true or not, but I use 400's in my pistol loads because I have a bunch of them. They've always worked perfectly for me.

Here you go, Paul. The Super Vel video on the last page pretty much lays out what we were learning and surmising.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15718548/1

I've been using small rifle primers in the .38 special and .357 magnum for some time now.....works just fine for me.

Thanks for the link. From a safety standpoint, it appears to make no difference. A little more ES with SRP? It would take more testing to reach any conclusions.

Burned a lot of SPP working up loads for the Sneezer. When I started using SRP velocity increased 50 FPS +/- and ES dropped like a rock. No harm is doing it, but expect some change in performance.

I use H110 and WW296 for fertilizer. L’il Gun is mo’ betta in every way.

I have to use what I have right now.

Went out & tried a short experiment with this today. Loaded up some .357 magnum with a plinking load of Unique (5 gr.) & a 150 gr cast SWC.
Made a few with CCI 450 small rifle magnum & Winchester Small Pistol Primers.

The Small Rifle Magnums were the only ones I have enough surplus of to make it worthwhile for me.

Velocity was close for both. Upper 900’s out of a 4” Python. Two out of three SRM wouldn’t pop double action w/Python. All did if hit single action. All fired fine with a 3” Kimber K6S double action & hit mid 900s.

For me, with small rifle magnum primers in a handgun, not worth it.
While I do have & shoot .357 lever actions, I want the ammo to work in a revolver interchangeably.

For you, using a rifle only & .327 Federal Magnum I’m certain you’re good.
Probably fine with standard rifle primers in handguns too. That 450 is about the thickest cup out there.

I have an SP101 Revolver in 327 Federal. I am not going to feed it these high dollar A-Frames. I intend to find out how these A Frames work on deer. Hogs aren't common at the camp, but the neighbor says the come through every now and then. I'd like to try it on them as well.

In May 2001 from AIM Surplus, I got (6) 38 sp Colt Police positives for $60 each + $18 tax, shipping, and FFL.
They were Police surplus supposedly with no grips. I was going to use them for destructive testing.
But they arrived with grips and were too nice to blow up. All were made in 1965.



Anyway... they had the police department name welded over on the backstrap.

Can you see the weld?

The heat from welding an assembled revolver compromised some of the hammer springs [MAIN SPRING].
They could set off a primer in single action, but not double action. And could not set off a magnum primer.
This was fixed by buying new springs.
But I did find out that magnum primers are harder to set off.