Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!!

Grizzly mauling near Yellowstone kills backcountry guide

https://www.foxnews.com/us/grizzly-mauling-near-yellowstone-kills-backcountry-guide

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Never would I ever depend on Bear Spray , me I see a bear that knows I'm there bear gets shot shortly after .

Check out the Utah Hiker cougar stalking him , likely , NO WEAPON of any kind .

I wouldn't even carry it.

The bunny-huggers love pepper for bears. So I dip my bullets in cayenne before I load them into my 44s or 454 Casull.
Best of both worlds. Right?

All joking aside, spray usually works, but I would NOT bet my life on spray alone EVER! I carry guns, usually both a handgun and a long arm. Where I live and hunt Grizzlies are very common. I have personally never been charged, but I wear a seat belt when I drive too, and I have never been in a bad wreck either.

Because you haven't doesn't mean you never will.

My point exactly!

You're using logic on a post?

That's barely acceptable around here, you know.

I have asthma and won’t carry bear spray. Fugg those bears. They come looking for a meal or a fight it’s going to get really loud.

If the bear is close enough to be sprayed with bear spray, you ought to have already put 2-3 rounds into it.

You are wasting valuable seconds only to find out it won't work...

Let's see. Pull pistol start putting rounds on target. Results = damaged bear, good chance dead bear.
Bear spray, pull out can fumble for pin to pull out, then spray, into wind. Results = mauled or dead person.
Chose your experience carefully.

I wonder how effective it would work on baboons.

My wife is all about bear spray but I much prefer carrying a gun. I bought my first can of bear spray this year because it was 50% off and the one my wife carries is out of date. I'm trying to encourage her to shoot more and carry her 357.

For a lot of people that don't shoot often spray my be a better choice. For anyone with moderate gun experience I say take a gun.

Bb

Those cans of bear whiz are a joke. Ever tried to quick draw and shoot one? Pffft. If they made bear whiz shaped and fired like a firearm, I'd carry one crossdraw, or on the weak side. But I'm packing real iron, first.

No doubt!

If you're walking up on a spring bear guarding a carcass, I'm thinking something like bear spray or even a pistol might not be much help.

we don't have the large bears here in Florida, but we have a huge number of black bears. Some of those are fairly hefty. I don't particularly like them, and certainly don't trust black bears. I am in the woods a lot, and always have a heavy loaded 10MM Glock or a .44 Magnum with me.

The article stated they don't know whether he used it or not:

"Mock when attacked had bear spray — a Mace-like deterrent meant to protect against attacks — but officials said they did not know if he managed to use it. Bear spray canisters have safety tabs to prevent them from going off accidentally and the safety tab on Mock’s bear spray was off, Jacobsen said."

Not defending bear spray but if you don't use your weapon, won't matter whether it slings lead or red slush....situational awareness and mindset are kinda critical.

Yeah, they tend to get a little testy, especially if its their first real meal of the year.

I don't have a problem with bunny huggers carrying bear spray..........

I don't have a problem spraying bunny huggers with bear spray.

So they have the spray can and the bear, but they don’t know if he at least sprayed some of it? Seems legit.🤪

That sir is correct.

Ventilate before marinate.

Even with a substantial caliber firearm on you, if a bear charges you by surprise before you even know he's upon you, you may still be ph ucked.

The experts tell us that bear spray is better than a gun. Well, it's better for the bear.

You two rocket surgeons have a lot of experience around grizzlies down there in Texas? LOL


My guess is other than a zoo neither of you have ever laid eyes on one.

So tell us Heavy Goose, what's your experience in the deep dark woods?

Which state would you like to hear about? Alaska, Montana, Idaho or Wyoming? Been around them in all 4.

\


He was a Rump Ranger in the the Boy Scouts.

You never know, more than one armed person has been taken out before they could fire a round. I keep my sidearm in a retention holster so maybe I have a chance if I get attacked and rolled around on the ground.

Maybe have both available. There's going to be times that weather conditions (wind) aren't going to be favorable for using spray. I've burned many in the ass with a load of #4 Remington Steel. Most times they go away and never come back. If they do, most are very wary of humans and wary of metallic sounds in particular. A few stubborn ones have needed lead pilled.






Most of the so-called "experts" really haven't spent a whole lot of time in bear country, and when they make recommendations without using a layered set of solutions, they're promoting an agenda rather than a useful contingency plan.

How do you idenfity grizz scat?

1. It smells like pepper
2. It has little bells in it

Where you live huh? For reals?

Too bad the bear didn't maul maxine waters instead.

A Short-barreled tactical 12-ga pump with Brenneke slugs, slung and part of the weight sacrifice of fishing in that country. That would not guarantee anything but it’s not intuitive to rely on a noxious mist (which could disable oneself) subject to breezes.

This poor guy did not get to defend his action before a judge. I’d take my chances.

The politically blue crowd are welcome to their “Ode to Cayenne” puffers.

I’m gonna hazard a guess that a spring grizzly bear guarding a carcass is likely to charge with little preamble or warning.

They are a little cranky this time if after not eating for 4 months. They tend to wander closer to people down low looking for food as the snow melts. Lots of snacks from winter die-off coming out of freezer.

The damn food seasoning failed again eh?

454 casull

I'm guessing that if he's close enough for spray you are supper. 12 gauge slugs or heavy rifle bullets at the first sign of trouble might work. I've never had a hostile encounter with a bear but I've seen them cover a good bit of ground pretty fast. I'm betting he can make 15 or 20 feet per second.

A grizzly bears speed is 35 MPH. Phil Shoemaker stopped a grizzly bear charge and killed the bear with a 9mm shooting 147 Buffalo Bore's +P Outdoorsman Ammo

Dude was supposedly an anti bear hunt activist.

I know this was a situation of being too close to a cache, and not just happening onto it but some of the comments here are willfully ignorant. I have been humbled a few times as to how close a grizzly can get before you know he's there. Getting a couple shots off beforehand, even if your rifle is on your body isn't always feasible, if you're ready for it or not.

ANYTHING beats finger nails!
MANY things beat pepper spray.

Yeah, but Phil can shoot!

I've been charged twice and the first time ended with a dead bear. Second time was a false charge and he turned and hauled ass just as I was starting to squeeze the trigger. There is no way I'd carry pepper spray. I carry a 45-70 loaded with 520 grain hard cast, gas checked Pile Drivers during fishing season. During hunting season I carry a .375 Ruger. Also carry a .454 Casull but I feel just as comfortable with a 12 gauge pump. The failure rate is too high with pepper spray, and besides, if you're going to spend time in the woods, you might as well be the king of the jungle. JMHO

There's a lot of things about this attack that don't add up. The victim was supposedly fishing and was supposedly south of Bakers Hole campground. The Madison River south of the campground crosses into Yellowstone less than 100 yards from the southeastern edge of the campground. I've fished that part of the river for 40+ years and know that ground very well. Problem is that the fishing season in YNP doesn't open until Memorial Day weekend. It took 50 minutes for the rescue team to find the guy using snow machines. There's not enough area where the fellow was supposedly found that would take 5 minutes to search much less 50 minutes. The river takes a pronounced turn to the east just south of the campground and doesn't turn south until its 400 or so inside the park. It may be that the media is pulling their bullchit as normal, but there are definitely some things that are definitely off with this deal. That poor guy had two surgeries one of which was to rebuild/replace the orbit of the eye. That bear really beat him up.

Worser than that, Barry. Most people actually charged and mauled remark how quickly it happened. Sometimes with only time for one or two shots.

Messing with spray, realizing that ain’t the ticket, tossing, drawing, and pointing in the general direction.......ain’t nobody got time fo dat!

Just guessing but wouldn't pulling and firing a revolver be more intuitive and quicker than whatever you do with bear spray? Also you can start at a farther distance. What's the range of bear spray? Someone posted that a grizzly can run 35 MPH. That's about 45 fps.

Will only comment that I've spent time with Phil Shoemaker during the peak of the late-summer gathering of BIG brown bears in his part of Alaska--which according to the state biologists has the highest seasonal concentration of brown bears in the entire state. If you DON'T see a bear while fishing, it's unusual.

We had a few close encounters, the most up-close and personal when some nitwit flyfishing tourist woman actually chased a big female brown bear downstream, shouting at the bear to stop, so she could take a photo with her compact camera. Eventually the woman ran out of gas--about the time the bear disappeared into the thick willows and alders behind me and Phil. We stood very still, listening to the bear moving through the brush, and as the sounds neared us Phil drew both his revolver and can of bear spray, holding one in each hand.

The bear emerged from the brush maybe 15 feet away, and upon spotting us stopped and angled its head down and to our left. We stood very still, and within a lifetime or two the bear eventually turned back into the brush and headed away. Phil later told me that if the bear had lifted it's head directly at us, it would have charged--the reason he was 2-handed ready.

Would the bear have been stopped by bear spray, or the handgun? Dunno--and neither does Phil. But I would bet he has seen far more charging brown bears than anybody who has so far posted on this thread, and also has stopped more of them, not only with a 9mm mini-handgun but rifles from .30-06 up to .505 Gibbs. And bear spray.

His experience not only involves guiding bear hunters, but several months of guiding fishing clients on exactly the sort of bear-crowded, brush-bordered streams I just described If he has enough confidence to carry bear spray, along with a firearm, then I feel kinda okay with doing so too. Which is exactly what I do in Montana--where I've encountered far more grizzlies than most of the posters here.

Back when I had blue heelers and would walk or run them around the neighborhoods I used to carry bear spray for use on inbound dogs looking to chew up mine. Over about a ten year period I had occasion to use it eight times.

Because of the geometry of the can/nozzle I shot low every time. Got so I learned to aim about 1-2ft over the inbound dog’s back to hit em in the face.

Didn’t matter much anyhow, seemed like it was the sudden unexpected blast that turned ‘em around, contact with the spray didn’t seem to bother them much. I figure the same may be true of bears.

I have never had the privilege of hunting in bear country but it's still my understanding that carrying a sidearm is recommended.
Or if your a crackshot you can just do like Bella Twin did in 1953 who killed the world record grizzly with a Stevens single shot .22lr.

So a hand gun don't always save the day completely.

Gotta a friend that sorta won a wrestling match with a Montana Grizzly after he sunk 6 rounds outta his 357 into it with the barrel literally stuffed against it's skull.
But it actually took a round from a 12 gauge to stop the attack and kill the bear.

The story is well documented, it was photographed every step of the way by many.

It happened near Spotted Bear in NW Montana.
The attack took place during a fumbled release.

Numerous wildlife photographers were present due to being in town (Kalispell) for a convention at the Outlaw Inn, they'd been invited to view and photograph the release.

Louis Kis was the man attacked, he's retold me this story several times over. Floyd Thomas shot the bear with the 12 gauge, he's seen in the photographs doctoring Lou's leg.

The story at the link I'm posting here is fairly correct, a few details aren't exactly right.

There were a lot of things done wrong, the bear had been improperly tranquilized, it came to early and had gotten rowled up.

As Lou slid the trap door up the bear started trying to squeeze out and bent the door so it became difficult to fully open and further pizzed off the bear.

Somebody standing by got excited and yelled for the driver to take off, it wasn't Lou, the bear had a hold of the trap at that point, it was the last thing he wanted to happen.

And the fatal error was the trap not being chain bind'ed down in the truck.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2008/01/grizzly-attack-caught-camera/



For you Flathead locals, Lou still lives up on Foys Lake, if you were to ever run into him I'm sure he'd enjoy telling the tale one more time.

Yeah.....spray is for wasps and hornets......not huge nasty bears.

I'm sure you meant liberals.

Ohhh. That don't look good.

Appears something like throwing out the anchor and looking down at the line winding around your leg.

I imagine you run across a lot of grizzlies cleaning bathroom stalls at lucky Lils . Never hiked more than a 100 yards from a paved parking lot and you're suddenly a grizzly expert lmao

Yep, a revolver...Shoot the bear five times then yourself once. LOL

From personal experience, bear spray works wonders on charging moose, but wouldn't be my first choice on a bear. The only thing I've used on those are various centerfire rifles.

Zooming in on the pic of Lou sitting down getting first aid, looks like a S&W 4" Model 19 to me.

No chit.Most folks have no clue how fast and quiet those big bears are.About the best you can hope is that after that fugger mauls the hell out of you ,that you have a bullet finish yourself with.Says they don`t even know if the bear spray was actually used.

That’d be my first guess. I’m guessing Callnum-nuts has been ass raped many many times.

I agree, there can be a time and place for both bear spray and a firearm.

I prefer having a short barrel, pistolgriped 12 gauge slung over my back when busting through creekside brush while fishing in Alaska.

I also find a huge difference between coastal Alaskan Brown Bears and the Grizzlies in Montana.

Alaska's Brown Bears are most often chilled, laid back and could give a schit about your presents.
Montana's Grizzlies on the other hand are seemingly always pizzed off and looking for a fight if you get within a 100 yards of them.

Food source is probably the difference, Alaska's Coastal bears are fat and full of the endless supply of spawning Salmon while Montana's bears spend their days scratching for huckleberries in attempt to get their bellies full.

Whatever the true reason be, Montana's Grizzlies just seem to have a bad attitude all the time.

If I'd shot every Brown Bear in Alaska that I've had close encounters with the River banks where I spend my time fishing would be carpeted with bear hide.

There is a time and place for everything, especially good judgment and having fair knowledge of the animals in the areas you frequent.

If a man is scared of the sight of a bear, he probably shouldn't be fishing Alaska.

This is one of the last legally killed Montana Grizzlies prior to the hunting of them being shut down.

It wasn't a can of bear spray that put him in this condition either.

Yep, just like.

Ya if you were scared driving that snow plowed road last winter you would crap when you finally see a grizzly.

LOL

Damned right!

Carry a big rock...

Some people are good at writing stories

Lmao

Yes..correct.... I have had only one close encounter with a grizzly.. (brown?).... I posted this quite a while back but some may find pertinent to SN's comment:

I had been fishing on the Kenai and Russian Rivers in Alaska for a couple of days. I duly noted how many of the fishermen I encountered were carrying pistols. One day I decided to fish further upstream on the Russian. I came to an area where the river made a wide bend and I cut across this huge meadow to save some time. Nice sunny day about 10:00..... a guide from a previous trip had told that if I fished the up the Russian, I needed to be off the river well before dusk to avoid the bears.... right... OK.... I started across .... the grass was quite high.. almost up to my waist..... Wind was blowing gently across and as I cut across, I noticed the wind made the grass sway like waves.....All was ok....I had my lunch, my fly rod and my pistol in a chest holster inside my waders..... so far so good...

Then I noticed that there was a "disturbance" in the "waves" and something was not right.... then all of a sudden ... I mean right sudden quick the surprised bear stood up.... There he was, about 20 feet away.... and there I was with my fly rod in my right hand and my pistol in the holster. I knew in an instant that the bear had a decision to make.... and I didn't. If he had come at me, there would not have much to do ......except pray that I could get a hand on my pistol while he was shaking and batting me around.....

But, the bear just stood there and so did I....a few seconds passed..... he began to look a bit nervous... he was a young adult.... then he dropped to all fours and ambled off to the river. Whew!


Things can happen very fast and I quickly realized I was not as well prepared as I thought I was.


I had been planning another trip up there this summer, but it now is not gonna happen....already bought a `10mm.... and have a holster that keeps it above my waders... almost up to my chin..... "Inside the wader carry" now seems just plain stupid.


btw... I fished with a young but pretty much savvy Alaskan who carried a 45 ACP in a chest holster. I asked about his choice of pistols.... He said.... "I can hit with it and will shoot until the bear drops or decides he doesn't want to get shot anymore." He told how his father was walking their dog one afternoon and got attacked by a grizzly..... he killed it with that same pistol.

The ones in Africa or Minnesota?

Lol, sure you have.

I feel a lot safer in bear country if my 2 dogs are with me. They are bird dogs but have been around enough bears that they will let me know if something is around. They would have no chance against a bear but would tell me. The 1 dog has chased a few black bears out of the yard and hope she never chases one that wont run.. I would prefer a shotgun with slugs or a hunting rifle. I do carry a 629 as a minimum, my wife carries bear spray. She has pistols to carry but seldom does. When she reads about this attack in the local paper she will be nervous again taking her daily walks.

This aligns with my experience. I, along with several biologists I have talked to have always guessed it was the amount of food (or lack thereof), but for whatever reason MT/WY/ID grizzlies and I presume those in southern interior Canada are way more aggressive than coastal brown bears, and even interior Alaska grizzlies.

I wouldn't go kick a coastal bear in the nuts or anything, but they're not in the same league as the lower 48 mountain bears when it comes to aggressiveness.

That would have been a Coastal Alaskan Brown Bear or Ursus Arctos by my definition anyway.

The way I see the difference is a Brown Bear either lives coastal or migrates to coastal rivers or streams for the summer Salmon run.
Salmon make up the bulk of their diet.

Inland Alaskan Grizzlies make no attempt to exclusively feed on Salmon, their diet consists of the various things all bears might eat including a little Salmon they find in the inland streams.

They are all omnivorous and all the same family.

Boone and Crockett defines the differences by region and geographical lines for record keeping since they have different categories for both.

If looked at closely their definition makes little sense and also makes it obvious why their record book Grizzlies come from where they do.

I think what most often skews the opinion of most novices and some that consider themselves experienced or even experts when it comes to Grizzlies is that 99% of their encounters with bears have been in parks or other similar enviroments where the bears have become conditioned to people.

Wild bears don't act like park bears.

In my opinion lower 48 park bears are some of the most dangerous bears on earth because they are totally unpredictable.
They can go from posing for the camera to tearing you a new azz in a heartbeat.

Add a food cache to the picture and there is sure to be an issue.

Majority of the times you have a encounter with a Grizzly the bear has been aware of you long before you became aware of it being in the area. This always gives the bear the upper hand with the encounter, you can bank on that.

Bear Spray is for making the libtards feel good about themselves. It is useless much like they are.

[.[/quote] I agree, there can be a time and place for both bear spray and a firearm.

I prefer having a short barrel, pistolgriped 12 gauge slung over my back when busting through creekside brush while fishing in Alaska.

I also find a huge difference between coastal Alaskan Brown Bears and the Grizzlies in Montana.

Alaska's Brown Bears are most often chilled, laid back and could give a schit about your presents.
Montana's Grizzlies on the other hand are seemingly always pizzed off and looking for a fight if you get within a 100 yards of them.

Food source is probably the difference, Alaska's Coastal bears are fat and full of the endless supply of spawning Salmon while Montana's bears spend their days scratching for huckleberries in attempt to get their bellies full.

Whatever the true reason be, Montana's Grizzlies just seem to have a bad attitude all the time.

If I'd shot every Brown Bear in Alaska that I've had close encounters with the River banks where I spend my time fishing would be carpeted with bear hide.

There is a time and place for everything, especially good judgment and having fair knowledge of the animals in the areas you frequent.

If a man is scared of the sight of a bear, he probably shouldn't be fishing Alaska.

This is one of the last legally killed Montana Grizzlies prior to the hunting of them being shut down.

It wasn't a can of bear spray that put him in this condition either.

[/quote]

JeffA,

Thanks for your comments. I agree about the effect of food sources on various grizzly/brown bears, and have mentioned that factor several times in various magazine articles and books.

I was born and raised and live in Montana, and encountered my first grizzly at age eight. Have encountered so many since that I can't count all of them, but would disagree that "Montana's Grizzlies just seem to have a bad attitude all the time."

That has not been my experience, and in fact have been bluff-charged more by Alaskan brown bears than grizzlies in Montana. So far neither my companions or I have had to shoot any Montana grizzlies, either with a firearm or spray-can, and the encounters have included bears from the Bob Marshall and surrounding wilderness areas to those encountered while pheasant hunting near St. Ignatius in the Flathead Valley. It's somewhat startling when your Labrador flushes a grizzly instead of a rooster--and yes, some people have been charged and mauled in those situations. Luckily I was not.

I've also spent considerable time in Glacier Park, including a week with its "bear rangers" some years ago doing an assignment for a major national magazine. During the week saw several bears, including one hanging out near the back-country chalet where a ranger and I stayed, something they closely monitor. Eventually the bear ranger and I found the reason the boar hung around was a mountain goat carcass it had been feeding on, 100 yards from one of the main trails. During our discovery, the bear came out on the trail between me and the ranger, only a few feet away--then looked at both of us once, and turned back off the trail.

The next I got to accompany several rangers while they "hunted" the bear with a tranquilizer gun. The most interesting part occurred after the bear was darted, whereupon it dived into the nearby brush. The drug's effect last at most half an hour, and the time was getting close to that before we found the bear lying in a small clearing. When one of the rangers poked it from behind with his slug gun, the bear roared, rolled over and bit the barrel--but luckily wasn't "awake" enough to stand up. He received another dart, and I got to photograph a helicopter hovering overhead to fly the bear away to a more remote part of the park. (There's more to that story, involving a tourists' lost toy poodle....)

Anyway, my experience has been with a variety of Montana grizzlies, including park bears, wilderness bears and those very conditioned to humans, in the lower country near mountains. For the past 31 years I have lived in a southwestern Montana valley. Grizzlies started showing up in the mountains on the west side of the valley in the 90s, because unknown to the public they were "trouble bears" being dropped off in a wilderness study area. When people started reporting them, officials first claimed they had to be brown-phase black bears--but then some of the bears got photographed, and were definitely grizzlies, whereupon the truth came out. (Even then, however, the officials claimed all the transplants were male, so they wouldn't reproduce. Then, of course, somebody got a photo of one of those "male" bears with 3 cubs. )

Lately grizzlies have also started showing up in the mountains on the east side of the valley. My wife and I have fished and hunted the mountains on both sides of the valley a lot, and haven't had an encounter with a bad-attitude grizzly yet. But that doesn't mean we're not prepared, and not just with bear spray but firearms from handguns on up. In fact a couple years ago I purchased a 16-gauge drilling with an 8x57 rifle barrel to hunt local upland birds, both in the mountains and in the valley, because I am sure that like the Flathead Valley some grizzlies will eventually end up in the local pheasant cover.

Our daughter and SIL were in Yellowstone a few years back. SIL dutifully bought and carried bear spray. A ranger came by and warned them that a mother bear with cubs was nearby, so the SIL removed the safety tab on his bear spray and put it in his oversized front shorts pocket.

Nobody saw the bear, but my SIL insists he was eaten alive... ...

When I am out in the bushes, which is everyday, I don't go anywhere without the rifle or 12ga, no bear spray here, although it is a good idea.
A firearm is the only tool that puts you back on top of the food chain, not bear spray.

Got any proof that he was anti bear hunting activist, he was a guide and a hunter from what I find.

British Columbia, eh?
I spent a summer way out in the woods in BC, up near Manson Creek. We were riding horses into the wild and camping out. There are lots of grizzlies up there.
We didn't see any thank God all we had was a 20gauge/22 LR over under gun from Savage. We were naive kids from Georgia and lucky not to have a run in with a bear.

You forgot the “file off the front sight”.

I used a revolver on a bear that came in on a Moose killed and it worked to perfection and only 2 shot required

Speaking of .45 ACPs and big bears, i'll repeat a story I posted several years ago about same.

Many years ago when I lived in Los Angeles, my wife and I owned a vacation cabin in the Sierra in Tulare County. I came to know an older man who lived up there, who was retired. After WW II he and his wife had gone to Alaska where he was working for one of the logging companies, cruising timber. He and his wife lived in a small cabin out in one of the immense forests. He said this happened in 1948.

He told me he came out of his cabin one morning to go to the wood pile to stoke his stove. Suddenly, a Grizzly came charging around the wood pile at him. He pulled his Colt Govt. Mdl. .45 ACP and shot the bear, killing it just before it reached him.

Somewhat surprised, I asked him why he used a .45 ACP?

He kinda laughed and said, " 'Cause that's all I had."

He showed me an old picture of him beside the dead bear near the wood pile. He had his .45 ACP in hand.

Some would scoff and say, "B.S.! No one could do that under great stress."

Maybe most couldn't. But he had seen a bit of stress before as a paratrooper with the 101st Airborne Div., when he jumped at Normandy, Holland, and fought in the Battle of the Bulge.

FWIW.

L.W.

And the bear was after his clients, if I understand his story correctly. Double the reason for your companion to be armed as well and effectively as you

No, no proof. Just one of the first articles I had read had mentioned something about it and very possibly could have been bad info. He was a "backcountry guide" according to several articles but I have not read one yet stating that he was a hunter or hunting guide, just a fisherman, hiker, photographer and snowmachine guide.

There are some hunters who are also against hunting grizzly bears...but I suspect they're relatively rare. Nothing suprises me with the fruitloops in Yellowstone area anymore though.

I hike. Hunt and fish on Kodiak weekly. ( well not in the winter). I carry a gun and sometimes bear spray. One of my buddies won't go unless everyone has spray. He's seen it used effectively before. I've used it on black bears myself. I prefer the comfort of the gun

Lots of Grizzlies for sure, the black bears probably beat up just as many, if not more people than Grizzlies.

Thanks for the weigh-in on that, JB. Breath of fresh air amidst all the bloviating here.

Like you, I've encountered far more grizzlies (and blacks) in routine backcountry activities in Alberta and B.C. than most people ever see in a lifetime. I studied under Stephen Herrero at UofC back in the late Triassic period, have worked with and hunted/fished with bear biologists and bear hunters many times. Some of these experienced people believe in and carry bear spray (most do, I'd estimate), and most also believe in and carry firearms when they can.

But the plain fact is that most moderately close bear encounters don't require a gun or a can of spray, just a watchful eye and non-threatening behavior and a healthy dose of animal-sense. This doesn't apply to situations with mama bears with cubs, mating season boars, or carrion/kill defense situations (none of which I've had to deal with) but those are not the majority of bear encounters.

I have carried bear spray since the late 80's in the mountain parks where firearms aren't allowed, never used it, but came close a few times and was glad I had it. I carried a firearm outside of the parks since the late 70's and only used it once, and I'm guessing would probably have been transmogrified into bear scat if I hadn't had it that day. I don't get into bear country much in recent years, but when I do I tend to have both bear spray and a heavy-duty handgun on my belt. When I head to the Bighorns in June for an upcoming flyfishing expedition, that's how I'll ramble, again, as will my wife.

Thanks for reminding us of that event, John. You are one of 6 people I've spoken to personally who killed charging bears with a handgun. Most recently, my good friend's son killed a grizzly as he and his client were field-dressing a Wyomin elk. He had a S&W 357 Magnum, which many people say isn't adequate for bear defense. In my view it certainly is adequate, as is a 9mm if Phil Shoemaker's example is taken into account.

A very good article was published a year or two ago that showed handguns are indeed highly effective as bear defense weapons. I'll see if I can locate it.

Truer words were never spoken. My experience with grizzlies has been pretty benign over the years, but I understand grizzly behavior has changed substantially in areas where they are no longer being hunted (southern Alberta, Montana, and B.C.). I have tended to be more wary of black bears, which have a greater tendency to view humans as prey than grizzlies are.

Only a 500 S&W handgun can stop a CHARGING GRIZZLY BEAR . Too much adrenaline otherwise

Do they ignore whitey tighties filled with chit?

I don’t know if I’m bloviating or not but I find the comments interesting. My only experience was seeing one grizzly at a distance while hunting in SW Montana and several over a week in AK years ago. We were caribou hunting in west central AK on the tundra and we saw browns every day near the dense creek bottoms; they seemed very indifferent to us even under a 100 yds. That was in my 340 period and with 250-gr. Partitions I felt fine.
But I do think the Mt-Wy-ID grizzlies are truly a different story if anecdotes and stories of the last decades are any measure.. So to begin with, I’m not even a rank amateur in regard to commenting to others on the best defense in a determined charge scenario.

But as I read of these incidents and others’ experiences, it seems bear spray works “a lot of the times.” And handguns have stopped charges and even killed big bears. Even little handguns have. But all of these also have been carried by people who have been mauled and were killed.

It’s a totally different situation for folks like me as opposed to a Phil S. or other pro’s who by experience over many years can “read” these animals and the scenario in real time. I can barely imagine the immediate terror when in that micro-second you realize that 600-800 lb animal is intent on killing you and is not going to give way. I think all would agree many/most here would be in very serious, serious trouble.

Familiarity may not always breed contempt, but even if it breeds a certain laxness among those in bear country by hunting or fishing alone, it seems to be the first handicap already accepted; maybe not for the pro’s mentioned but it would certainly be for me. Does having a partner help ones chances of survival in a charge? Would bear spray even if unholstered, and pointed right, stop the bear above? The emphasis is on “dependably, all the time.” For me the same would be true of a handgun though I could be persuaded to carry one.

Above, I mentioned a tactical type pump 12-ga loaded with slugs — would the sling hang up on a pack or some other obstruction or could it be brought to engagement on time? For me, the scenario in question is not the most-of-the-time, almost casual, moderate range contact of an indifferent bear who turns away. But the all-in bear that is maybe the one in a hundred or even a thousand. No matter how small the number, we all know we will read of it again.

I know the statistical odds of this happening weighs against the practicality of carrying tiresome extra stuff, more weight, etc. I would bend to suggestions of those who recommend bear spray and carry it but if only for a matter of comfort, I’d go the tact 12-ga route. Not than I can say it is better/best because I don’t know that, but with the little I know and the greater I don’t, it would be the most comforting for me.

You'll notice in the Jeff A pictures, that bear has a tag. What does that mean? Caught and released. As in got somebody's attention at some point and was hauled off someplace else. As in not scared of humans.

I guess I've noticed about five g-bears within 40 yards of me, four were moving away briskly (yay) while the other was a big sow along the railroad between Essex and Java (I like trains). This was in the early 1980s when bears were pretty thin, but would come to the RR to snack on grain. Anyway, I was moving from one photo spot to another along a little trail, and I saw eyes. There she was, maybe 25 yards, not moving at all, standing in the brush watching me. All I had was the spikes on my tripod, which was in bayonent drill position immediately. So I got side-eyes on her and commenced a retrograde advance, as there hadn't been a cub where I'd just been.

Didn't know my ticker could tick so fast. I went back to the tracks, train went by, I got my train picture, and then tried the trail again while thrashing and yelling, as I needed to get back to my car without walking 12 miles around. Heck no, I didn't even think of taking her picture although I had a big tele.