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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010374 04/19/21
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Dude was supposedly an anti bear hunt activist.

I know this was a situation of being too close to a cache, and not just happening onto it but some of the comments here are willfully ignorant. I have been humbled a few times as to how close a grizzly can get before you know he's there. Getting a couple shots off beforehand, even if your rifle is on your body isn't always feasible, if you're ready for it or not.



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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010420 04/19/21
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ANYTHING beats finger nails!
MANY things beat pepper spray.


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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: jwp475] #16010446 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Hastings
I'm guessing that if he's close enough for spray you are supper. 12 gauge slugs or heavy rifle bullets at the first sign of trouble might work. I've never had a hostile encounter with a bear but I've seen them cover a good bit of ground pretty fast. I'm betting he can make 15 or 20 feet per second.

A grizzly bears speed is 35 MPH. Phil Shoemaker stopped a grizzly bear charge and killed the bear with a 9mm shooting 147 Buffalo Bore's +P Outdoorsman Ammo

Yeah, but Phil can shoot!


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010454 04/19/21
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I've been charged twice and the first time ended with a dead bear. Second time was a false charge and he turned and hauled ass just as I was starting to squeeze the trigger. There is no way I'd carry pepper spray. I carry a 45-70 loaded with 520 grain hard cast, gas checked Pile Drivers during fishing season. During hunting season I carry a .375 Ruger. Also carry a .454 Casull but I feel just as comfortable with a 12 gauge pump. The failure rate is too high with pepper spray, and besides, if you're going to spend time in the woods, you might as well be the king of the jungle. JMHO


Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010463 04/19/21
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There's a lot of things about this attack that don't add up. The victim was supposedly fishing and was supposedly south of Bakers Hole campground. The Madison River south of the campground crosses into Yellowstone less than 100 yards from the southeastern edge of the campground. I've fished that part of the river for 40+ years and know that ground very well. Problem is that the fishing season in YNP doesn't open until Memorial Day weekend. It took 50 minutes for the rescue team to find the guy using snow machines. There's not enough area where the fellow was supposedly found that would take 5 minutes to search much less 50 minutes. The river takes a pronounced turn to the east just south of the campground and doesn't turn south until its 400 or so inside the park. It may be that the media is pulling their bullchit as normal, but there are definitely some things that are definitely off with this deal. That poor guy had two surgeries one of which was to rebuild/replace the orbit of the eye. That bear really beat him up.

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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: rockinbbar] #16010466 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
If the bear is close enough to be sprayed with bear spray, you ought to have already put 2-3 rounds into it. smile

You are wasting valuable seconds only to find out it won't work...

Worser than that, Barry. Most people actually charged and mauled remark how quickly it happened. Sometimes with only time for one or two shots.

Messing with spray, realizing that ain’t the ticket, tossing, drawing, and pointing in the general direction.......ain’t nobody got time fo dat!


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010515 04/19/21
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Just guessing but wouldn't pulling and firing a revolver be more intuitive and quicker than whatever you do with bear spray? Also you can start at a farther distance. What's the range of bear spray? Someone posted that a grizzly can run 35 MPH. That's about 45 fps.


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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010568 04/19/21
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Will only comment that I've spent time with Phil Shoemaker during the peak of the late-summer gathering of BIG brown bears in his part of Alaska--which according to the state biologists has the highest seasonal concentration of brown bears in the entire state. If you DON'T see a bear while fishing, it's unusual.

We had a few close encounters, the most up-close and personal when some nitwit flyfishing tourist woman actually chased a big female brown bear downstream, shouting at the bear to stop, so she could take a photo with her compact camera. Eventually the woman ran out of gas--about the time the bear disappeared into the thick willows and alders behind me and Phil. We stood very still, listening to the bear moving through the brush, and as the sounds neared us Phil drew both his revolver and can of bear spray, holding one in each hand.

The bear emerged from the brush maybe 15 feet away, and upon spotting us stopped and angled its head down and to our left. We stood very still, and within a lifetime or two the bear eventually turned back into the brush and headed away. Phil later told me that if the bear had lifted it's head directly at us, it would have charged--the reason he was 2-handed ready.

Would the bear have been stopped by bear spray, or the handgun? Dunno--and neither does Phil. But I would bet he has seen far more charging brown bears than anybody who has so far posted on this thread, and also has stopped more of them, not only with a 9mm mini-handgun but rifles from .30-06 up to .505 Gibbs. And bear spray.

His experience not only involves guiding bear hunters, but several months of guiding fishing clients on exactly the sort of bear-crowded, brush-bordered streams I just described If he has enough confidence to carry bear spray, along with a firearm, then I feel kinda okay with doing so too. Which is exactly what I do in Montana--where I've encountered far more grizzlies than most of the posters here.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: Dave_Skinner] #16010576 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by Dave_Skinner
Those cans of bear whiz are a joke. Ever tried to quick draw and shoot one? Pffft. If they made bear whiz shaped and fired like a firearm, I'd carry one crossdraw, or on the weak side.


Back when I had blue heelers and would walk or run them around the neighborhoods I used to carry bear spray for use on inbound dogs looking to chew up mine. Over about a ten year period I had occasion to use it eight times.

Because of the geometry of the can/nozzle I shot low every time. Got so I learned to aim about 1-2ft over the inbound dog’s back to hit em in the face.

Didn’t matter much anyhow, seemed like it was the sudden unexpected blast that turned ‘em around, contact with the spray didn’t seem to bother them much. I figure the same may be true of bears.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010660 04/19/21
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I have never had the privilege of hunting in bear country but it's still my understanding that carrying a sidearm is recommended.
Or if your a crackshot you can just do like Bella Twin did in 1953 who killed the world record grizzly with a Stevens single shot .22lr.

IC-B

Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010693 04/19/21
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So a hand gun don't always save the day completely.

Gotta a friend that sorta won a wrestling match with a Montana Grizzly after he sunk 6 rounds outta his 357 into it with the barrel literally stuffed against it's skull.
But it actually took a round from a 12 gauge to stop the attack and kill the bear.

The story is well documented, it was photographed every step of the way by many.

It happened near Spotted Bear in NW Montana.
The attack took place during a fumbled release.

Numerous wildlife photographers were present due to being in town (Kalispell) for a convention at the Outlaw Inn, they'd been invited to view and photograph the release.

Louis Kis was the man attacked, he's retold me this story several times over. Floyd Thomas shot the bear with the 12 gauge, he's seen in the photographs doctoring Lou's leg.

The story at the link I'm posting here is fairly correct, a few details aren't exactly right.

There were a lot of things done wrong, the bear had been improperly tranquilized, it came to early and had gotten rowled up.

As Lou slid the trap door up the bear started trying to squeeze out and bent the door so it became difficult to fully open and further pizzed off the bear.

Somebody standing by got excited and yelled for the driver to take off, it wasn't Lou, the bear had a hold of the trap at that point, it was the last thing he wanted to happen.

And the fatal error was the trap not being chain bind'ed down in the truck.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2008/01/grizzly-attack-caught-camera/

[Linked Image from fieldandstream.com]

For you Flathead locals, Lou still lives up on Foys Lake, if you were to ever run into him I'm sure he'd enjoy telling the tale one more time.

Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010710 04/19/21
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Yeah.....spray is for wasps and hornets......not huge nasty bears.

Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: jaguartx] #16010715 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by jaguartx
I wonder how effective it would work on baboons.




I'm sure you meant liberals.


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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: JeffA] #16010725 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by JeffA
So a hand gun don't always save the day completely.

Gotta a friend that sorta won a wrestling match with a Montana Grizzly after he sunk 6 rounds outta his 357 into it with the barrel literally stuffed against it's skull.
But it actually took a round from a 12 gauge to stop the attack and kill the bear.

The story is well documented, it was photographed every step of the way by many.

It happened near Spotted Bear in NW Montana.
The attack took place during a fumbled release.

Numerous wildlife photographers were present due to being in town (Kalispell) for a convention at the Outlaw Inn, they'd been invited to view and photograph the release.

Louis Kis was the man attacked, he's retold me this story several times over. Floyd Thomas shot the bear with the 12 gauge, he's seen in the photographs doctoring Lou's leg.

The story at the link I'm posting here is fairly correct, a few details aren't exactly right.

There were a lot of things done wrong, the bear had been improperly tranquilized, it came to early and had gotten rowled up.

As Lou slid the trap door up the bear started trying to squeeze out and bent the door so it became difficult to fully open and further pizzed off the bear.

Somebody standing by got excited and yelled for the driver to take off, it wasn't Lou, the bear had a hold of the trap at that point, it was the last thing he wanted to happen.

And the fatal error was the trap not being chain bind'ed down in the truck.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/2008/01/grizzly-attack-caught-camera/

[Linked Image from fieldandstream.com]

For you Flathead locals, Lou still lives up on Foys Lake, if you were to ever run into him I'm sure he'd enjoy telling the tale one more time.





Ohhh. That don't look good.

Appears something like throwing out the anchor and looking down at the line winding around your leg. smile


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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: callnum] #16010726 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by callnum
Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
If the bear is close enough to be sprayed with bear spray, you ought to have already put 2-3 rounds into it. smile

You are wasting valuable seconds only to find out it won't work...


No doubt!

You two rocket surgeons have a lot of experience around grizzlies down there in Texas? LOL


My guess is other than a zoo neither of you have ever laid eyes on one.


I imagine you run across a lot of grizzlies cleaning bathroom stalls at lucky Lils . Never hiked more than a 100 yards from a paved parking lot and you're suddenly a grizzly expert lmao


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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: dogcatcher223] #16010729 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
If you're walking up on a spring bear guarding a carcass, I'm thinking something like bear spray or even a pistol might not be much help.

Yep, a revolver...Shoot the bear five times then yourself once. LOL


Coyotes shot no waiting.
Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: chlinstructor] #16010746 04/19/21
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From personal experience, bear spray works wonders on charging moose, but wouldn't be my first choice on a bear. The only thing I've used on those are various centerfire rifles.

Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: GRIZZ] #16010750 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by GRIZZ
Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
If you're walking up on a spring bear guarding a carcass, I'm thinking something like bear spray or even a pistol might not be much help.

Yep, a revolver...Shoot the bear five times then yourself once. LOL





Zooming in on the pic of Lou sitting down getting first aid, looks like a S&W 4" Model 19 to me.


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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: dogcatcher223] #16010762 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
If you're walking up on a spring bear guarding a carcass, I'm thinking something like bear spray or even a pistol might not be much help.

No chit.Most folks have no clue how fast and quiet those big bears are.About the best you can hope is that after that fugger mauls the hell out of you ,that you have a bullet finish yourself with.Says they don`t even know if the bear spray was actually used.

Last edited by Huntz; 04/19/21.

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Re: Major Bear Spray Failure: Carry A Gun !!! [Re: 12344mag] #16010781 04/19/21
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Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by SBTCO
Originally Posted by callnum
You two rocket surgeons have a lot of experience around grizzlies down there in Texas? LOL


My guess is other than a zoo neither of you have ever laid eyes on one.



So tell us Heavy Goose, what's your experience in the deep dark woods?
\


He was a Rump Ranger in the the Boy Scouts.


That’d be my first guess. I’m guessing Callnum-nuts has been ass raped many many times.


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