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Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns #16012272 04/20/21
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denton Offline OP
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article with link

Tightening the screws on a mythical problem.

These people don't seem to understand that many, if not most, guns are not traceable to begin with.

Last edited by denton; 04/20/21.

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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16013171 04/20/21
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But all the cop shows say that every gun is registered! shocked


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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16013559 04/20/21
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I liked the part where "readily convertible" implies a master gunsmith with $65,000 worth of machine tools. Yeah, that's about right. 80 percents are doable, but you need the skills AND at least some of the tools or you're just making a light paperweight.


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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16013573 04/20/21
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So at what point are shops that can actually machine these a target?

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16013825 04/20/21
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IndyCA35 Online Content
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Do what's the big deal with "ghost guns?"

Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun by removing the serial number from a gun that has one?


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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16013854 04/20/21
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Originally Posted by denton
article with link

Tightening the screws on a mythical problem.

These people don't seem to understand that many, if not most, guns are not traceable to begin with.


I actually think quite the opposite is true. I think the ATF is keeping tabs on whatever it can (at least at time of purchase) and these so called “ghost guns” prevent that. Think about it: no one wanting to ban them says (in a whiney liberal voice), “but no one has to get a background check for this.” Instead they cry because they’re “not traceable.”

Maybe I need more tinfoil.

Last edited by philgood80; 04/20/21.

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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: IndyCA35] #16013902 04/20/21
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Do what's the big deal with "ghost guns?"

Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun by removing the serial number from a gun that has one?



Yes and No. They can now take a gun that has had the ser. number ground off and do a metallurgical scan on the area and it will recreate the serial number by looking at the change in the molecular structure of the metal compared to the area right around the number.

Last edited by BluMtn; 04/20/21.

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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16014011 04/20/21
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Seial numbers should have never been required in the first place. Just another part of the "slippery slope" that the stupid fuuckin Fudds in the NRA thought was A-OK back in 1968.

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: IndyCA35] #16014037 04/20/21
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Do what's the big deal with "ghost guns?"

Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun by removing the serial number from a gun that has one?

Is this a real question?


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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: IndyCA35] #16014659 04/21/21
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Do what's the big deal with "ghost guns?"

Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun by removing the serial number from a gun that has one?


Anyone that has a spare 15 years to spend in a Federal prison. 80% lowers are NOT considered firearms.....yet.

IC-B

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: IndyCA35] #16014726 04/21/21
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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun


A $200 off the shelf 3D printer can make a Glock frame, or a 10/22 receiver, or an AR lower, or any of several guns designed from the scratch to be produced by printing. The incremental cost of making another is ~$2 worth of plastic filament.

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: BluMtn] #16014761 04/21/21
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Originally Posted by BluMtn
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Do what's the big deal with "ghost guns?"

Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun by removing the serial number from a gun that has one?



Yes and No. They can now take a gun that has had the ser. number ground off and do a metallurgical scan on the area and it will recreate the serial number by looking at the change in the molecular structure of the metal compared to the area right around the number.


So wouldn't filing and then over stamping numerous numbers/patterns obliterate the underlying structure? As in using a center punch and then peening the surface back, repeat, repeat, etc.


The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: Stickfight] #16015363 04/21/21
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Originally Posted by Stickfight
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun


A $200 off the shelf 3D printer can make a Glock frame, or a 10/22 receiver, or an AR lower, or any of several guns designed from the scratch to be produced by printing. The incremental cost of making another is ~$2 worth of plastic filament.




You may be able to "make" a frame with a 3d printer, but when you go to use it as a firearm, you will most likely be in for a surprise very quickly when it disassembles itself.


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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: Blackheart] #16015369 04/21/21
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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Seial numbers should have never been required in the first place. Just another part of the "slippery slope" that the stupid fuuckin Fudds in the NRA thought was A-OK back in 1968.

Bingo!


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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: asheepdog] #16015380 04/21/21
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gregintenn Offline
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Originally Posted by asheepdog
Originally Posted by Stickfight
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun


A $200 off the shelf 3D printer can make a Glock frame, or a 10/22 receiver, or an AR lower, or any of several guns designed from the scratch to be produced by printing. The incremental cost of making another is ~$2 worth of plastic filament.




You may be able to "make" a frame with a 3d printer, but when you go to use it as a firearm, you will most likely be in for a surprise very quickly when it disassembles itself.

Bullchit!

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16015385 04/21/21
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Apparently you only need some good water pipe and fittings.... I like when he says I will shoot it left handed so it does blow off my good hand.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ym6MfpWmE

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: asheepdog] #16015399 04/21/21
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The_Real_Hawkeye Offline
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Originally Posted by asheepdog
Originally Posted by Stickfight
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun


A $200 off the shelf 3D printer can make a Glock frame, or a 10/22 receiver, or an AR lower, or any of several guns designed from the scratch to be produced by printing. The incremental cost of making another is ~$2 worth of plastic filament.

You may be able to "make" a frame with a 3d printer, but when you go to use it as a firearm, you will most likely be in for a surprise very quickly when it disassembles itself.

Nope. Perfectly serviceable Glock frames, for example, can be printed up with about $4.00 worth of material. You then only need to install some steel rail segments, which are available online, no FFL required, and come with instructions on how. The other parts for a Glock are available online, e.g., complete slide assembly, magazines, no FFL required.

All legal, since (as I understand it) there's no law against making your own firearms from scratch, so long as you don't sell it or give it away, or take it out of state.


"Our prayers are with the family of George Floyd, and our prayers are also with the family of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. We have no tolerance for racism in America. We have no tolerance for violence inspired by racism."

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Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16015409 04/21/21
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16bore Offline
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How many criminals are going to make the effort to finish a ghost gun?

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: denton] #16015416 04/21/21
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An AR lower receiver receives virtually no stress at all from the rifle firing. If you can 3D primt a pistol grip for one, there’s no reason at all a lower receiver printed the same way wouldn’t be serviceable. It is done every day.

Re: Internal ATF Document: Ghost Guns [Re: asheepdog] #16015442 04/21/21
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antelope_sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by asheepdog
Originally Posted by Stickfight
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Can't anyone with a $5.00 file and five minutes make a ghost gun


A $200 off the shelf 3D printer can make a Glock frame, or a 10/22 receiver, or an AR lower, or any of several guns designed from the scratch to be produced by printing. The incremental cost of making another is ~$2 worth of plastic filament.




You may be able to "make" a frame with a 3d printer, but when you go to use it as a firearm, you will most likely be in for a surprise very quickly when it disassembles itself.


3d printings come a long way in the last couple of years. There are some very good materials available to the home gamer today.


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