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From gunner500:

[Linked Image]
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I suspect the Sharpie-marked primer signifies 1 round out of 100 that is not perfect and is to be utilized as a fouler ?

The rifle has a 1:30" twist.
The 530-gr bullet is 0.512" in diameter and is 1.130" in length.
Accuracy testing will be very interesting.
Much more to come, I am sure.


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Many thanks Sir Ron, full disclosure on the rifle, many years ago a friend of Saint Bagwell and i gave me an 18 twist Shiloh standard weight barrel chambered in 45-70, i looked for an action to build a '74 Sharps on for hunting, but, after seeing Goldie Pedersoli, i was also looking for a Ruger #1 action to screw it too, but alas, it never came to pass.

About a month ago my dim bulb lit up a bit, i sent the barrel to JES for a .512" bore 30 twist chambered in 50-70 Govt, yesterday morning early i took the rifle and barrel to Steve Baldwins place up in Jones Ok, he installed the barrel for me, i now have a switch barrel set for the 45 and 50 Government on one rifle using the same forearm and mounting hardware, each barrel has it's on lever return spring and extractor, what a fun deal this will be.

LOL on the Sharpie point primer, look close down in the case in the photo, see the King of Clubs playing card wad? guess what will be saved and be in the chamber come game day?............i think it kind of fits.

I cast these bullets relatively hard at a guesstimated 12 to 1 alloy, i've heard stories of the 50's not penetrating, hence my first foray into the 50 was 22 twist and 750 grains, they penetrate like a freight train loaded with pig iron, so as 50 cal bullet weight gets lighter i tread lighter, i want this little bullet to hold it's shape and penetrate for all it's worth, even if i run it into the side of a Buffalo someday. cool

Speaking of 50-70-530 Supersonic........is this a pretty good representative load for the 50-70? i have never studied other weights and velocities, just knew up front i wanted at least 1200 fps with this bullet to give it a solid chance to overcome the resistance of it's diameter and plow on through.

Thanks again Sir Ron.


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I've seen a Hawken trapdoor conversion in a museum. Very interesting time period.

Do you guys know if the Remington rolling block handguns used downloaded ammo? I've seen those in museums also.

Nice looking rifle.

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Originally Posted by gunner500
Many thanks Sir Ron, full disclosure on the rifle, many years ago a friend of Saint Bagwell and i gave me an 18 twist Shiloh standard weight barrel chambered in 45-70, i looked for an action to build a '74 Sharps on for hunting, but, after seeing Goldie Pedersoli, i was also looking for a Ruger #1 action to screw it too, but alas, it never came to pass.

About a month ago my dim bulb lit up a bit, i sent the barrel to JES for a .512" bore 30 twist chambered in 50-70 Govt, yesterday morning early i took the rifle and barrel to Steve Baldwins place up in Jones Ok, he installed the barrel for me, i now have a switch barrel set for the 45 and 50 Government on one rifle using the same forearm and mounting hardware, each barrel has it's on lever return spring and extractor, what a fun deal this will be.

LOL on the Sharpie point primer, look close down in the case in the photo, see the King of Clubs playing card wad? guess what will be saved and be in the chamber come game day?............i think it kind of fits.

I cast these bullets relatively hard at a guesstimated 12 to 1 alloy, i've heard stories of the 50's not penetrating , hence my first foray into the 50 was 22 twist and 750 grains, they penetrate like a freight train loaded with pig iron, so as 50 cal bullet weight gets lighter i tread lighter, i want this little bullet to hold it's shape and penetrate for all it's worth, even if i run it into the side of a Buffalo someday. cool

Speaking of 50-70-530 Supersonic........is this a pretty good representative load for the 50-70? i have never studied other weights and velocities, just knew up front i wanted at least 1200 fps with this bullet to give it a solid chance to overcome the resistance of it's diameter and plow on through.

Thanks again Sir Ron.


Wonder if the story teller is still frowning ? grin


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Am surprised you could compressed that load .650 without bulging the case or something!

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Early, Thanks, have never seen the rifles you speak of, and dang sure wouldn't want a full bore load of 50-70 in a handgun, bet they loaded it down quite a bit.

LOL, Woodrow, yes, bet he's up there flicking booglins down at me ; ]

Caplock, i did use a drop tube for the powder, also cut some 10 thou playing card wads to save 20 thou less compression using a standard 30 thou fiber wad, i had this mold sold to a guy with a 50-70, he may have thought about too much compression too, or he had a 36 twist rifle, this bullet may be a bit too long for 36, the loaded rounds KA-PLUNK right into the chamber with a bounce when dropped in muzzle down, all round fired so far have been no wiping or blow tubing.

This will be an easy load for hunting, have found over the years a good amount of compression will really spool up the powder pressuring it up for some clean burning,, gotta have that for a hunting load.


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More good news from gunner500:

"... one shot on a strip of tape at 25 to center, that was easy ..."

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

"One at 100 shot off left knee, seated with back against bench, 6 o'clock hold, no time to file front sight to have bullets landing 5-6 inches high, rain on the way."

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"No lead on extra tight steel wool patch, hard bullets are bumping up and sealing just fine."

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"Couple cope spit patches followed by olive oil patch and she's shining like a new nickel, range tooled a couple sticks of brass, gtg,
this is going to be some easy fun, 70gr holy black through a 50 bore is very mild report, now 100Gr swiss fg through my 40-90 sbn is an entirely different story!"

[Linked Image]

Jolly good fun.

Original ballistics (.50-450-70) for the Trapdoor .50-70 Govt rifle with about 3 feet of barrel: 450-grain, grease-grooved bullet at 1240 fps, .515" groove diam., 3-groove, 1:42" twist, soft lead.
Gunner500's 530-grainer at 1250 fps from a 30" barrel is a darn sight superior on all counts.
They did have .50-450-55 loads for cadet rifles and carbines, 29-5/8" of bore would be a carbine.
There were also some .50-400-45 loads with shorter chambers and brass for Navy carbines and Rolling Block pistols, IIRC.


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Thanks Sir Ron, you can see by the lead splat at 100 i was holding 6 o'clock on the bottom right hand corner of the gong, massive East wind blew the splat lines West across the face of the gong, wanted to see how much the wind would move that bullet at 100, i think the movement was all me and my wobbly knee, not the wind, fun little rifle, i cant wait to bash a big pig or deer with that 530gr bullet up close.

Thanks for the ballistics lesson too, i'll gladly take 80 more momentum bullet weight grains at the same velocity, all about boring a hole to exit. cool



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Absolutely, the 80 extra grains of momentum at 1250 fps for the 530-grainer is quite the Quantum of Solace for the bizon hunter.
That will shake your martini instead of stirring it.
That bullet is licensed to kill.
Enough of the James Bond jokes.

I have a short and squat 535-grainer I could get to work with BP in a .510"-grooved 1:24" twist Rolling Block with gunner500's recipe.
.50-70 rifles, I have 4 shooters to try various bullets:

1. U.S. Springfield 1866 Trapdoor: Marked "1864" on the lock plate from percussion conversion by "second Allin alteration," marked "1866" on breechblock.
About 29" barrel bore, about 32" including breechblock.
Lined barrel, .515"-groove, .500" bore, 3-grooved, 1:42" twist.
It must be a carbine or cadet rifle being that short.
8 lbs 9 oz including brass tacks and human hair wind gauge.
I do not think the Bubba that decorated it with brass tacks bobbed the barrel. Crown and front sight look unmolested.
A master gunsmith overhauled, cleanedand lubed it and repaired a crack in the stock with epoxy and brass pins,
before I tied it to a tire and pulled the trigger with a string. 450-ish-grainer and 70 grains of FFg GOEX was proof enough for me.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

2. McNelly Carbine replica (Cimarron/Chiappa/A.C. Armisport) of Sharps 1859 percussion converted to centerfire a la Texas Rangers.
22" barrel, 1:18" twist, .512" groove, 6-groove, .504" bore, 8 lbs 0 oz.

[Linked Image]

3. 1874 Sharps replica "Long Range Target Rifle" (Pedersoli)
34" barrel, 1:26" twist, .512" groove, 6-groove, .504" bore, 11 lbs 12 oz.

4. Remington Rolling Block replica "Buffalo Model No. 2" (Pedersoli) re-barreled with Oregon Barrel Company tapered octagon and custom sights
28" barrel, 1:24" twist, .510" groove, 6-groove, .498" bore, 9 lbs 13 oz.

[Linked Image]

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Light and short bullets for slow twist and loose groove, 3 at top,
heavier and longer in various degrees follow:

[Linked Image]

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The Rolling Block has been throated to allow the 680-grain Hoch bullet to be seated as shown on right above.
Smokeless (H322 or H4198 with a little filler) gets it up to 1300 fps for stability in 1:24" twist.
Wrinkled-nose bullets used for COL dummies so as not to waste the good ones.


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good stuff RC & G5 this is some fun stuff . i mite have to find me one of them rolling blocks to play with

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Dang nice rifles Riflecrank, i like that 650gr Saeco mould, would make a nice hunting bullet in the faster twist 50's.

44, why yes you do Sir, no need for us to hog the fun.


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i am trying to get a rem. rolling block from a guy .it is one of the ones in 43 Spanish it has been d&t and some other things done to it so it is a shooter not collectible

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Aren't those Spanish Remingtons chambered in 7×57 ?

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it is a 43 i don't know what all they were chambered for

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Great info fellows, love the 50-70 round!


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I had a Swedish Rolling Block .50-70 for a while. It was a hoot to shoot


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Originally Posted by gunner500
... i like that 650gr Saeco mould, would make a nice hunting bullet in the faster twist 50's ...

That is the one that Saint Bagwell recommended to me for my .50-70 Little Bighorn with 1:24" twist, .510"-grooved barrel.
It is about 1.350" long and ought to work with BP. Saint Bagwell would know.

[Linked Image]

Custer probably used the 450-grainer at 1240 fps in 1872:

[Linked Image]

Sometime after 1876 a .50-70 Rolling Block Sporting Rifle just like Custer's was photograped in the lap of Chief Touch the Clouds:

[Linked Image]


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Here is the McNelly Sharps saddle-ring carbine replica with 1:18" twist, 22"-long barrel, .512" groove:

[Linked Image]

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I tried the McNelly at 100 yards with BP, light load (480-grainer, 65-gr FFg), sights at lowest setting, out of box.
It might be even better with that 650-gr SAECO if sizing, lube, powder charge, wads and lead hardness are tickled with the proper duck feathers.
A local Texas Ranger Re-enactor posed for photographs:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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29"-long Trapdoor barrel with .515" groove and 1:42" twist had velocity about same as in McNelly, worse accuracy,
even more tickling with duck feathers needed.

[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]


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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I have 4 choices to work with:

[Linked Image]

To be continued.


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Originally Posted by 44mc
i am trying to get a rem. rolling block from a guy .it is one of the ones in 43 Spanish it has been d&t and some other things done to it so it is a shooter not collectible


Heck of a lot like the old .44-77 Sharps.
I have an action that likely came from one of those .43 Spanish Rolling Blocks:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Collecting parts to go with it:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Would I dare make it a .510"-grooved 1:20" twist, .50-70 instead of using that barrel for a .500 Jeffery with some extra throat added ?

[Linked Image]

Maybe not.


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Here is an "unknown gunsmith" special, action has 1866 year as last patent on it,
might be 1868 production for .43 Spanish,
barrel is a modern .458-caliber 1:20" twist, chambered for .45-70 Govt.
It is a possible donor for another .50-70 Govt.,
what with .45-70 being so common:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Wow that's nice! I had a 50-70 Navy carbine, that I foolishly sold!


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RC that is a fine looking rifle . got me drooling on my puter screen grin

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I would love to have an H&R Officer’s Model converted to .50-70. It would make a dandy deer gun


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Originally Posted by pacecars
I would love to have an H&R Officer’s Model converted to .50-70. It would make a dandy deer gun


That would be another OH MY moment if I ever saw one of those !

Bookreview excerpts from this little excellent book:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Compare to my old RB action, parts is parts:

[Linked Image]


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Same old action, with the oldest type, long, sliding extractor. I did find a new-made replacement extractor for it:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Ive got an Navy Arms 50-70 rolling block with bullets, cases, ammo, dies, wad cutter, bullets, and mould that ive yet to use. Bought the whole package and never got around to try it.

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I confess to having dabbled in smokeless powder with the .50-70 Govt. cartridge.
I added 0.200" length of 0.512"-diameter parallel-sided free-bore to the throat,
loading it 0.200" longer in COL adds a little over 10 grains of water to effective case capacity.

[Linked Image]

So loaded with smokeless I call my re-barreled Pedersoli Rolling Block the ".50-70 Little Bighorn."

Note the sights and the initial sight-in, discussion to follow:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The fouling shot goes high then the next four settle down:
(Please excuse the busy target, lots of info there.)

[Linked Image]

Filing down the front sight would not do with the Beach combo.

[Linked Image]

If I can raise the POI at 50 yards by 2 inches through increasing the charge with the same bullet,
then the pinhead globe and big gold post will shoot together with the flat-top-V-notch open rear sight, dead-on at 50 yards.
Then the lowest setting on the peep will be 6" high at 50 yards.
Adjust that to 8" high at 50 yards and
it will then be about a foot high at 100 yards, and dead-on at 200 yards,
with lots of adjustment left for long range pestering fire.
YEE HA !


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The gunner500 load of 70 grains of compressed FFFg with 530-grainer would make for a good try in the .50-70 Little Bighorn.
A little extra barrel time at 1250 fps MV and a little extra muzzle lift (recoil) from the greater powder mass ejected might get it zeroed,
as long as the lesser bullet weight does not drain off too much of the recoil.
Many .50-70 possibilities with either Holy BP or sacreligious smokeless:

440-450-grainers in antique Trapdoor 1:42" twist

480-535-grainers in Pedersoli Sharps Long Range 1:26"

480-680-grainers in the Little Bighorn 1:24"

480-680-grainers in the McNelly Sharps 1:18"

One can conceive of my 777-grainer (BOL = 1.568") at 1050-fps using gas check and smokeless
in the McNelly Sharps carbine for a .50-70-777 subsonic plinker.
That requires a 1:19" twist according to this: https://mcgowenbarrel.com/twist2/
Could go down to 950 fps MV with the 777-grainer in a 1:18" twist,
But since the bullet is almost as long as the brass case,
that might require re-throating of the McNelly Sharps carbine smile

Grease lube with BP, and powder-coat paint with smokeless.
Save the paper patches for .40 and .45-cal.
The .50-70 Govt. was a grease-groover to start with.
I have no desire to paper patch .50-cal bullets !


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Well crap! Now I have to call Jes and see if the H&R Trapdoor can be bored out. You are a bad influence Jerry

Last edited by pacecars; 04/27/21.

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You fellas are having more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Next time one is inclined to run some metal wool down the bore use some brass wool rather than steel.

[Linked Image from crossingsinc.com]

Last edited by DigitalDan; 04/27/21.

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Trump's hairpiece?


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Brass wool would more easily show any lead removed.
0000 extra fine steel wool is harmless in the bore, surely, and does a great job of lead removal.
You can scrub a gloss blue exterior gun finish with it and not scratch it.
More like iron wool.
It is also coated with oil to keep it from rusting in the package and thus makes a dandy fire starter, lights easily with a flint and steel, match or Bic.

@pacecars,
I have one of those Navy Arms-Pedersoli Trapdoor carbines in .45-70 Govt also.
22" barrel length, 0.760" diameter at the muzzle, 1.040" breech diameter where it screws into the action.
The .50-70 McNelly Sharps carbine is also 22" long in the barrel, muzzle diameter 0.810", breech diameter of barrel is 1.225".
Both are round barrels.
I think a re-bore is do-able.
Go whole hog and Gemmerize it too ?

[Linked Image]


Last edited by Riflecrank; 04/28/21.

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Always wanted a Gemmer. I have found a couple of the H&R versions and I am waiting on a call back from JES. I really need to stop reading this site


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Wait a minute, I just realized mine was the Pedersoli M1873 Trapdoor Carbine, "the enlisted man's model" with 22" barrel.

[Linked Image]

The "Deluxe" Pedersoli M1873 Trapdoor Officer's Model has 26" barrel and has already been "Gemmerized" with a wiping stick,
and it has a tang vernier sight +/- Lawence Ladder on the barrel.
Springfield-made originals of that configuration numbered only 477 between 1875 and 1885, produced as hunting rifles.

[Linked Image]

Just getting this straight in my mind.
Be careful that the extractor can be fitted for the .50-70's larger rim before re-boring a .45-70 to .50-70.
That may be the limiting factor.
Looking at my Trapdoor carbines, there would not be much left of the extractor on an M1873.

With the purpose-made M1873 action that could have a new-made barrel screwed onto it,
the insides of the action are smaller than on the old M1866 2nd Allin conversion.
The extractor might vanish if you opened up an M1873 for the .50-70 rim.
It would be a pity to have to use the wiping stick as extractor.


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Talked to Jes and it won’t work. He can and has rebored and rechambered them to a .50 Alaskan that is shortened just enough to keep a standard Alaskan from chambering


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I'll see your .50-70, and raise you a .58 Roberts rolling block laugh

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Steve,

I fold. You win.

Is that ".58 Roberts" a rimfire used in the earliest sort of muzzleloader conversions ?


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No, it is centerfire. It took a while to find a load it liked.
But it does well if I do my part. Here is a video I made at the range with it.

https://youtu.be/t151cMpjyxM

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"Shooting the .58 Cal Remington Transformed Rifle"
Mighty cool, 492 grain Minies at supersonic.
But the .50-70 Gov't. came before that upstart of 1867.
I was bluffed on that last hand !

Cases for it are made from 24 ga. Magtech brass, sold here: https://www.ammunitionartifacts.com/unitedstatescartridgecases/58-caliber-roberts-conversion

"Only 5,000 Of These Rifles Were Manufactured By Providence Tool Company In 1869-1870 For The Roberts Breechloading Arms Co. Of New York City. The Design Was Patented By Brigadier General B.S. Roberts In 1867. They Were Originally Manufactured For The New York National Guard But Were Ultimately Sold To The State Of South Carolina After The Legislature In New York Failed To Appropriate The Necessary Funds. They Were Reportedly Used Until Around 1890.
Remington Arms Company also chambered their Rolling Block #1 Action In This Caliber Using Surplus Civil War Barrels."


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Many thanks Sir Ron, full disclosure on the rifle, many years ago a friend of Saint Bagwell and i gave me an 18 twist Shiloh standard weight barrel chambered in 45-70, i looked for an action to build a '74 Sharps on for hunting, but, after seeing Goldie Pedersoli, i was also looking for a Ruger #1 action to screw it too, but alas, it never came to pass.

About a month ago my dim bulb lit up a bit, i sent the barrel to JES for a .512" bore 30 twist chambered in 50-70 Govt, yesterday morning early i took the rifle and barrel to Steve Baldwins place up in Jones Ok, he installed the barrel for me, i now have a switch barrel set for the 45 and 50 Government on one rifle using the same forearm and mounting hardware, each barrel has it's on lever return spring and extractor, what a fun deal this will be.

LOL on the Sharpie point primer, look close down in the case in the photo, see the King of Clubs playing card wad? guess what will be saved and be in the chamber come game day?............i think it kind of fits.

I cast these bullets relatively hard at a guesstimated 12 to 1 alloy, i've heard stories of the 50's not penetrating, hence my first foray into the 50 was 22 twist and 750 grains, they penetrate like a freight train loaded with pig iron, so as 50 cal bullet weight gets lighter i tread lighter, i want this little bullet to hold it's shape and penetrate for all it's worth, even if i run it into the side of a Buffalo someday. cool

Speaking of 50-70-530 Supersonic........is this a pretty good representative load for the 50-70? i have never studied other weights and velocities, just knew up front i wanted at least 1200 fps with this bullet to give it a solid chance to overcome the resistance of it's diameter and plow on through.

Thanks again Sir Ron.
Very nice. Years ago, I acquired an original Sharps 1859 Conversion Carbine in 50-70. I bought a Lyman mold and cast some bullets and bought some Bell brass from an outfit in Sand Point, ID. I filled the cases up with Ffg giving no thought to needing to drop tube the charges, as I didn't have the equipment and didn't know enough to do it. Loading the cases with standard smokeless equipment, I then headed out and blasted some targets. Deeming the accuracy "good enough", I took the thing deer hunting. Re-creating in reality, a recurring dream, a very decent buck came right up to my stand and I could NOT get the trigger to pull. Buck fever? I don't think so. It just would not pull! He ran off unscathed. A couple of days later I touched one off at a bigger buck quite a ways off and didn't hit him. The flash was very impressive though.

The gun left in some forgotten trade. Wish I had a pic of it. I still have some of the ammo as well as the die set and other stuff.

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Steve thanks for the vid. that is a cool old rifle

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I have owned a couple of original 50-70 guns. A Springield 1871, a NY rolling block carbine, and a Sharps conversion carbine. The serial number of the Sharps is not speciically listed but is within a 20 gun block issued to the 10th Ill. Vol Cav in 1863
The 1871 was just too big to carry in the woods with 36" barrel. The RB carbine kicked terribly. The Sharps is still in the safe and sees a day or two afield every deer season. I hate cleaning cases so I shoot AA2015 loads.
Not a great gun or dropping deer where they stand as the big lead bullet, even cast at 20-1 or 40-1 alloy, just punches right through them. But they don't run far.
I missed a Remington musketoon a few months back that I would have loved to own and hunt with.
The Sharps always attracts attention at the range

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On the short end of the stick...

I've been making large bore reloadable rimfire brass from centerfire cases lately. I had a damaged 50 cal centerfire case, (Starline .56-50 I think) laying around. So I got wondering if there was a .50 rimfire case that I could make from it. A quick look at COTW revealed that a .50 navy rimfire pistol cartridge for the m1865 navy rolling block pistol was short enough to make from the damaged case I had. So just for fun, I set out to make one.

The original cartridge is similar in diameter at the rim and base as the 50-70 and other. 50 cartridges of the era. But the case length is .850" - .860". So I trimmed this one to .850", then converted the case from centerfire to rimfire.

It was originally loaded with a short, 290gr bullet over 23gr of black powder. Digging through my 50 cal bullets I found a Lyman 515139 bullet weighing about 340gr. It looked pretty close, but was too long and heavy. So it was chucked in the lathe and the bottom band and grease groove were turned off. This resulted in a pretty usable substitute weighing 285gr.

Unfortunately I have no pistol to shoot it in, but it looks impressive :-)

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The first post Civil War musket to cartridge conversions were .58 rim fire. That lead to the 1866, the 1868, 1869, and 1870 Trapdoors. All in 50-70.
Several.years ago I actually handled a .58 RF at a gun show.

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Thanks for the tip Dan.


Dang Riflecrank, you guys are having too much fun here, is that the Rough and Ready sight on that Roller Saint Bagwell used to speak about?

I've had a slight delay, i need to get back and file the factory Shiloh front sight blade down on the 50-70 to proper height, then make a file cut copper penny front sight, see what the ladder tells me out to around 300 yards or so for sight correlation marks, i think my load with the 530gr greaser at 1250 will still lay a pretty good whop on critters to 300.


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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by gunner500
Many thanks Sir Ron, full disclosure on the rifle, many years ago a friend of Saint Bagwell and i gave me an 18 twist Shiloh standard weight barrel chambered in 45-70, i looked for an action to build a '74 Sharps on for hunting, but, after seeing Goldie Pedersoli, i was also looking for a Ruger #1 action to screw it too, but alas, it never came to pass.

About a month ago my dim bulb lit up a bit, i sent the barrel to JES for a .512" bore 30 twist chambered in 50-70 Govt, yesterday morning early i took the rifle and barrel to Steve Baldwins place up in Jones Ok, he installed the barrel for me, i now have a switch barrel set for the 45 and 50 Government on one rifle using the same forearm and mounting hardware, each barrel has it's on lever return spring and extractor, what a fun deal this will be.

LOL on the Sharpie point primer, look close down in the case in the photo, see the King of Clubs playing card wad? guess what will be saved and be in the chamber come game day?............i think it kind of fits.

I cast these bullets relatively hard at a guesstimated 12 to 1 alloy, i've heard stories of the 50's not penetrating, hence my first foray into the 50 was 22 twist and 750 grains, they penetrate like a freight train loaded with pig iron, so as 50 cal bullet weight gets lighter i tread lighter, i want this little bullet to hold it's shape and penetrate for all it's worth, even if i run it into the side of a Buffalo someday. cool

Speaking of 50-70-530 Supersonic........is this a pretty good representative load for the 50-70? i have never studied other weights and velocities, just knew up front i wanted at least 1200 fps with this bullet to give it a solid chance to overcome the resistance of it's diameter and plow on through.

Thanks again Sir Ron.
Very nice. Years ago, I acquired an original Sharps 1859 Conversion Carbine in 50-70. I bought a Lyman mold and cast some bullets and bought some Bell brass from an outfit in Sand Point, ID. I filled the cases up with Ffg giving no thought to needing to drop tube the charges, as I didn't have the equipment and didn't know enough to do it. Loading the cases with standard smokeless equipment, I then headed out and blasted some targets. Deeming the accuracy "good enough", I took the thing deer hunting. Re-creating in reality, a recurring dream, a very decent buck came right up to my stand and I could NOT get the trigger to pull. Buck fever? I don't think so. It just would not pull! He ran off unscathed. A couple of days later I touched one off at a bigger buck quite a ways off and didn't hit him. The flash was very impressive though.

The gun left in some forgotten trade. Wish I had a pic of it. I still have some of the ammo as well as the die set and other stuff.


LOL, damn the luck on the buck EE, and yes, having the right tools, powder compression die in this case may have made all the difference, you may still be shooting that old Smoke Belcher. smile


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Originally Posted by gunner500
Many thanks Sir Ron, full disclosure on the rifle, many years ago a friend of Saint Bagwell and i gave me an 18 twist Shiloh standard weight barrel chambered in 45-70, i looked for an action to build a '74 Sharps on for hunting, but, after seeing Goldie Pedersoli, i was also looking for a Ruger #1 action to screw it too, but alas, it never came to pass.

About a month ago my dim bulb lit up a bit, i sent the barrel to JES for a .512" bore 30 twist chambered in 50-70 Govt, yesterday morning early i took the rifle and barrel to Steve Baldwins place up in Jones Ok, he installed the barrel for me, i now have a switch barrel set for the 45 and 50 Government on one rifle using the same forearm and mounting hardware, each barrel has it's on lever return spring and extractor, what a fun deal this will be.

LOL on the Sharpie point primer, look close down in the case in the photo, see the King of Clubs playing card wad? guess what will be saved and be in the chamber come game day?............i think it kind of fits.

I cast these bullets relatively hard at a guesstimated 12 to 1 alloy, i've heard stories of the 50's not penetrating, hence my first foray into the 50 was 22 twist and 750 grains, they penetrate like a freight train loaded with pig iron, so as 50 cal bullet weight gets lighter i tread lighter, i want this little bullet to hold it's shape and penetrate for all it's worth, even if i run it into the side of a Buffalo someday. cool

Speaking of 50-70-530 Supersonic........is this a pretty good representative load for the 50-70? i have never studied other weights and velocities, just knew up front i wanted at least 1200 fps with this bullet to give it a solid chance to overcome the resistance of it's diameter and plow on through.

Thanks again Sir Ron.
Very nice. Years ago, I acquired an original Sharps 1859 Conversion Carbine in 50-70. I bought a Lyman mold and cast some bullets and bought some Bell brass from an outfit in Sand Point, ID. I filled the cases up with Ffg giving no thought to needing to drop tube the charges, as I didn't have the equipment and didn't know enough to do it. Loading the cases with standard smokeless equipment, I then headed out and blasted some targets. Deeming the accuracy "good enough", I took the thing deer hunting. Re-creating in reality, a recurring dream, a very decent buck came right up to my stand and I could NOT get the trigger to pull. Buck fever? I don't think so. It just would not pull! He ran off unscathed. A couple of days later I touched one off at a bigger buck quite a ways off and didn't hit him. The flash was very impressive though.

The gun left in some forgotten trade. Wish I had a pic of it. I still have some of the ammo as well as the die set and other stuff.


LOL, damn the luck on the buck EE, and yes, having the right tools, powder compression die in this case may have made all the difference, you may still be shooting that old Smoke Belcher. smile
I've got all the right tools now. Those loads shot fine. It was either me or the gun itself. It would have went down the trail anyway. It's one I wish I had back, but not at the expense of my current arsenal.

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Try Buffalo Arms for drop tube, over powder wads, and power compressor

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Bronze wool is a no-no according to Saint Bagwell:
Originally Posted by DigitalDan

[Linked Image from crossingsinc.com]

Gleaned from an internet reply to one of my questions in 2007, I copied it to a Word document
and disturbingly forgot some of the details.
Do not use OOOO extra fine steel wool nor bronze wool.
Use OO steel wool by the Bill Bagwell Technique,
if you fail to prevent the need for it:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Thanks for the tip Dan.


Dang Riflecrank, you guys are having too much fun here, is that the Rough and Ready sight on that Roller Saint Bagwell used to speak about?

I've had a slight delay, i need to get back and file the factory Shiloh front sight blade down on the 50-70 to proper height, then make a file cut copper penny front sight, see what the ladder tells me out to around 300 yards or so for sight correlation marks, i think my load with the 530gr greaser at 1250 will still lay a pretty good whop on critters to 300.


Yes, Rough and Ready rear and the Beach front flipper combo.
I cannot file that front on mine.
Need to try your Sharps BP load in my Roller with a 535-grainer, .509" to .510"-sized of 1:20 alloy and grease-lubed.
For smokeless, a grain or two more H322 with my powder-coat-painted, hardened .512"/ 680-grain Hoch, or the 650-grain Saeco.
Bill told me this about shooting smokeless loads in BPCR rifles:

"Smokeless IS good clean fun in these rifles, and I wouldn't call it sacrilege.
But it is not the whole experience. By so doing you are simply shooting a single shot rifle--not a BPCR.
It's sort of like taking your sister to the prom.
You are at the prom, with a girl, but you are not getting the whole prom package."

I always was a bit backward socially.


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10-4 EE, understood, my blackpowder rifles will be the very last ones to leave, shooting them from my custom power chair with sandbags on the dash may be a bit tiresome when i'm 150 years old ; ]

Good stuff Riflecrank, Thanks, have heard many good things about the Rough and Ready, LOL on the rest, socially challenged myself, it's all good.


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How hard would it be to re-barrel a Ruger #1 stainless steel and 50–70 and then replace the original sights on it? I am thinking replacing my shorter 45-70 barrel. It would be thin and light.

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Originally Posted by smallfry
How hard would it be to re-barrel a Ruger #1 stainless steel and 50–70 and then replace the original sights on it? I am thinking replacing my shorter 45-70 barrel. It would be thin and light.


I would contact JES Reboring and see if it can be rebored before looking for a new barrel


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Originally Posted by pacecars
Originally Posted by smallfry
How hard would it be to re-barrel a Ruger #1 stainless steel and 50–70 and then replace the original sights on it? I am thinking replacing my shorter 45-70 barrel. It would be thin and light.


I would contact JES Reboring and see if it can be rebored before looking for a new barrel
No, I’d rebarrel.

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Dang, i need to get my little 50-70 back out and get the ladder barrel sight correlated out to at least 200 yards, season is rapidly approaching Gents!


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Those Shiloh Sharps 1874 military carbines in 50-70 any good?

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Great thread fellas! Cool stuff.


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Originally Posted by smallfry
Those Shiloh Sharps 1874 military carbines in 50-70 any good?


Anything Shiloh is more than good, in case one of their rifles has met a prick with ears named bubba, send it on up to Kirk at Shiloh, it'll be like new when you get it back.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Great thread fellas! Cool stuff.


These rifles are great fun Big B.


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