Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Does size matter? Excellent info here...

A bit different genre but Cowboy Action Shooters use the lightest creampuff .38 loads they can put in their revolvers in an attempt to get the most speed with accuracy.

I don't follow the alphabet pistol games all that closely but IIRC the whole power factor system was put in place to handicap the 9mm since guys with 9's and .38 Supers were cleaning the clocks of guys shooting .45's, and that was with competitive shooters whom one assumes practiced a bit more than Suzy Soccer Mom. Even then guys were hot rodding their .38 Supers to the point of blowing up pistols to try to get the power factor into the .45 ACP range while still using a lighter bullet to keep recoil down.

Now the video in the OP is saying that size doesn't matter, placement combined with adequate bullet performance is the key. So why go with something that recoils more than something else if the things that cause increased recoil are not a significant factor in an effective self defense load? Again, this is all with the caveat of "enough" performance. I have to say that in anticipation of comments accusing me of saying a .22 Short is just as good as a .44 Magnum.*


What the top people in the world can do is impressive but has little application to the average shooter trying to make the best choices for a chambering which will allow them to place accurate shots as quickly as they can.




* Although if someone is shot in the medulla oblongata with either then a cessation of hostilities would take about the same amount of time with either, proving again that placement is key given enough penetration.

This forum really needs a like button. It's really just that simple. Sweating every little detail on caliber, bullet, etc, is just wasted time. Its an interesting "thought experiment" if you're obsessed with your gun...but in the end, it just won't matter.

I don't know how hot his loads are but I do know he could have used a 9mm if he wanted

Your post is total bullshit, but because you have a high post count I will point you to a video that shows how wrong you are:
In the following, the guy clearly believed going in that his 40sw speed and accuracy would be worse than his 9mm effort - and he was totally wrong. He shot faster and more accurately with a Glock 22 than a Glock 17.
https://youtu.be/sEHROzM6FHw

Agree 100%.

Thank you for that video.

quote=The_Real_Hawkeye]
Not only your experience, but the plain old laws of physics. I never understood why some people think of this fact as a challenge to their manhood. It's just physics. Same with any mention of bore axis height being a factor. Folks go nuts. [/quote]

You need to watch the video that dla posted and study your physics a bit more

When I watched the video posted by the OP my first thought was that they made a lot of the same points that Martin Fackler made in his book that you used to quote here jpw. And their study had the same limitations that Fackler acknowledged in his work: homogeneous ballistic gel can replicate bullet performance in muscle or fat tissue but not when a bullet strikes bone or soft lung tissue. Still, interesting video.

Dr Falkner and Duncan MacPherson are directly responsible for the much better performing ammo that we now have available

I look at it this way, what’s the best with the worst. As in ball ammo. Sure the newer/better self defense ammunition is a huge improvement from a couple of decades ago, but it’s kinda hard to find these days.

I will say that just because one person (or a few) can shoot just as fast and accurate with a large cal. as they do with a smaller one, does not mean everyone can do it. If that were the case, we would all shoot like Jerry Miculek.

I agree with Jim in Idaho post.

All a man's gotta do is shoot the "test" 10 rounds at 10 yards from the draw on a B8. See which is faster and more accurate for yourself.

And the guy in the video above needs a rangefinder, that looked more like 5 or 6 feet than yards.

Well, I just as well throw in my .02 cents worth on this. Obviously, there are several factors at play here. One thing I would like to point out that few seem to realize is that just because a bullet is a hollow point does not mean that it will always expand or even sometimes or even will it rarely expand. Generally speaking, in my experience, most all pistol bullets need to be traveling at 900 or better FPS when they impact or they are not going to reliably expand. Some will a very little bit and some, other than the rifling marks, will look almost unused. That is unless you shoot them into a brick wall. Guess what, if you do that, you missed your target. There are exceptions to this, such as my pet handload for my .38 snubbies using huge cavity Federal HST JHPWC bullets loaded to about 825 or so FPS. But, again, those are not average hollow points. Additionally, if a HP bullet strikes heavy bone it is much more likely to expand than if it only encounters tissue and light bone. A simple fact is that bigger bullets make bigger holes. And something that seems to be ignored quite a bit these days that Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, and Skeeter Skelton regularly mentioned, a wide meplat pistol bullet does a lot more damage than a round nose design. And, you must have good penetration. Additionally there is the argument about whether it is good to have two holes leaking or just one and the bullet remaining inside the target, theoretically expending all of it's energy inside the target. Also, with an exit wound, over penetration needs to be considered, especially if in a crowded area with innocent bystanders close to the target. So, in my opinion, there is not a perfect anti-personnel do it all whiz-bang caliber/bullet/load for all situations. I regularly carry several different sidearms from time to time, depending on how I am dressed, where I am going, etc. They include a .380 ACP loaded with flat pointed 100 grain bullets loaded to about 900 FPS, a .38 Spl J-frame loaded with either the afore mentioned HST JHP wadcutters or regular wadcutters, a 9mm with 150 grain LSWC loaded to about 930 FPS, a .357 Mag with 158 gr JHP loaded to about 1200 FPS, or a .44 Spl loaded with either 240 gr LSWC or JSP loaded to about 950 FPS.

So, FWIW, this is what I currently carry for anti-personnel use. I do have some Lehigh all copper .380 "whiz-bang" bullets that I have not yet gotten around to loading and experimenting with that are supposed to be super good defensive bullets. They look promising. Whatever you chose, you must first be able to consistently hit your target. A hit with a .380 is far better than a miss with a .45. The bullet must have enough energy to penetrate adequately into a vital area if not all the way through, and you need to be mindful of collateral damage. Don't waste your money on hollow points that will not have enough velocity to expand. If it is not going to expand, go with a wide meplat for effectiveness. JMHO,YMMV.

Gel - represents engineered bullet performance.

It does not simulate actual bullet performance in flesh and bone.

Hits - count
Good hits - count more
Bigger hits - count more
More hits - count more





GR

I watched that video a long time ago. It’s a good one.

And when you get away from the Gel - the larger calibers appear to be more reliable than the smaller ones.






GR

My experience as well with the Critical Duty, expansion is minimal or nonexistent

These are always,fun discussions to read.

However, if you can't clear leather FIRST, and put shots accurately on target,
Don't matter what caliber gun is falling from your hand, as you will likely are in DEEP s##t by now.

I've found Golden Sabre bonded +P to be excellent in expansion and penetration in my Sig P365

Hickok45 weighs in.