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Originally Posted by chesterwy
Last manual I had was a 98 Chevy half ton extended cab. It was a pickup that someone had custom ordered. Between the five speed, flow master exhaust, and smaller 5.0 (305) vortec engine. That thing got the best fuel mileage I’ve seen out of a full size pickup. Usually around 20 MPG.


Dad’s last farm truck he bought that I mentioned earlier in this thread is a 92 Chevy 2500 with the 350 and manual 5-speed gets 16 mpg. And it’s got 350K miles on it now.

Last edited by chlinstructor; 04/30/21.

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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by K1500
Most A/T’s in trucks can be started in 2 in low traction conditions (lookup first gear lockout). In addition, the TC/stability control can be turned off with a button when needed. I’m guessing they saved quite a few wrecks over the years. Many even have throttle mapping settings that can remap the throttle settings when off road or in low traction situations. The Luddite in me likes driving sticks, but they don’t really give an advantage over most newer autos.




Bullshidt. They don't turn off. They do lessen, but the ones I've driven never turn off. I'm sure they are neat and help folks who can't drive. I'd like the option to not have it.

It's like having a semi-auto pistol with a safety that automatically engages every time you pull the trigger. "you can just turn it off"


With most systems is will at least partially reengage when speed exceeds a certain value. If you really want it off you can pull the fuse or even better, run the circuit through a simple toggle switch on your dash. Flip a switch and it’s totally off. I’ve never noticed it to be an issue by simply turning it off with the built in button, but maybe I don’t know what I’m missing.

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Originally Posted by K1500
Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by K1500
Most A/T’s in trucks can be started in 2 in low traction conditions (lookup first gear lockout). In addition, the TC/stability control can be turned off with a button when needed. I’m guessing they saved quite a few wrecks over the years. Many even have throttle mapping settings that can remap the throttle settings when off road or in low traction situations. The Luddite in me likes driving sticks, but they don’t really give an advantage over most newer autos.




Bullshidt. They don't turn off. They do lessen, but the ones I've driven never turn off. I'm sure they are neat and help folks who can't drive. I'd like the option to not have it.

It's like having a semi-auto pistol with a safety that automatically engages every time you pull the trigger. "you can just turn it off"


With most systems is will at least partially reengage when speed exceeds a certain value. If you really want it off you can pull the fuse or even better, run the circuit through a simple toggle switch on your dash. Flip a switch and it’s totally off. I’ve never noticed it to be an issue by simply turning it off with the built in button, but maybe I don’t know what I’m missing.

I’m with Gruff on this one. I explained it to a guy at work like this the other day. If I want to drive across a terrace in the pasture and there’s mud on the backside I have to lock out the T/C to allow some wheel spin to clean the tread and push me through. A push of the button “turns it off” until you slide sideways just a little because you’re cutting across on an angle, then the stupid stability control cuts the fuel and you’re stuck. When my warranty runs out I’m seriously looking at a custom tune to turn the traction control off permanently. It’s my only complaint with my truck and I hate it.

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You push once to turn off TC. You push and hold for 3 seconds or so to turn off both TC and Stabilittack. With both off, my truck will let me get as stupid as I want to be. Are you are sure you are turning stability control off?

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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!

Put the AT in “2”.


Or in the case of the 6-spd auto in a Super-Duty, you can select manual mode and also start in 3rd..........

I drove a manual transmission'd daily driver from the time I was 14 until I was almost 30. I still have a manual 5-spd in my street-rod and it's 2nd nature/muscle-memory for me to get in and drive a manual again. That said, there's NOTHING about a manual I'd want over the automatic in my F250. In manual mode my F250 shifts faster w/the +/- buttons on the stalk than one can jam gears in a manual, especially down-shifting.


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Originally Posted by K1500
You push once to turn off TC. You push and hold for 3 seconds or so to turn off both TC and Stabilittack. With both off, my truck will let me get as stupid as I want to be. Are you are sure you are turning stability control off?



Lol. Yes I am quite sure.

[bleep] things should be an option. I hate a computer second guessing me. When I speak to my truck with I out from my hands and feet it should do wtf I tell it to.


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I understand, and my questions was actually directed at The Kid. In any event, it unfortunately is the way of the world now. I would consider wiring in a switch that cuts power to the TC/ESC module. It should be easy to do and would 100% disable it.

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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.



Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!


I have two toyotas with autos that will allow you to start in 2nd.

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Plenty of trucks that will start in something other than 1st.

Tried starting in 3rd with about 14k on behind the F350 yesterday, quickly hit the button 2x and was rolling in short order.


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man, just when I was starting to feel like a grumpy old codger, this thread made me feel better about me.

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Auto/Manual?

Whichever I had, there would be times I wished for the other.

Manuals most of my 36 years with a license. And before.
Including all kinds up to 18 speeds in trucks.


I can do thing with a manual you just can't do with an automatic.
Using the clutch let's you rock better than an auto any day.
Every once in awhile you might just want wide open in a year
without shifting. Or lugging without a shift.

Sure, new autos look like you can manually shift them.

Try getting it to lug down, or try to bump the governor.
Get back to me if you can.

Or, try to start in 3rd on ice..
You might get to use. 2nd.
But in the newer ones, 2nd is still pretty low.

An auto is sure nice 99% of the time.
In certain butt puckered steep places.


But once in awhile, a good driver can do better if he has control.

If they ever get DCT figured out for normal vehicles, and give real
manual control, they will rule. 99.7% of the time.😁


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I'm going to be having shoulder surgery soon on my left side. My pickup has a m/t. It's going to be interesting to see how I can drive it for 6 weeks. If it didn't have power steering, it would be hopeless.

One thing that's hard to do for drivers untrained with m/t's is getting one moving on a steep hill. My Dodge diesel almost takes the fun out of it. Cummins has what's called ZTL, or zero throttle launch. You slowly release the brake while you slowly let out the clutch. Keep your foot off the throttle. When it starts to stall, the computer takes over and gets it going for you, nice and easy. The ZTL disengages when you push the throttle.


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Haven't seen a full size manual transmission pickup new on a lot in years. Think the last one was a 2010 GMC 4x4 work truck.

Learned to drive on farm tractors and field trucks, long before I was old enough for a license. Enjoy driving a manual now and then. Only one I have left, is a ratty Bronco II at hunting camp.


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I can't speak for the pickup V8s but that's normal Olin an inline 6.

Even pulling 80k in a truck, starting on a hill, ease out the clutch, don't touch
the throttle until the clutch is out.

Driving a Cummins pickup since 93, big trucks since 90, our garage guys
laughed at me driving a wrecker. I'd stall the gas ones. Just too used
to diesel.


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I know this thread is old, but thought a post COVID update would be appreciated. I looked at pickups from all of the big 3 makers. While they all are VERY nice, most can't even give you a true short bed (6 feet). Forget a full sized 8 foot bed unless you get into the 3500 series. And the prices! FFS...$80k for a push button plastic POS?

Sorry, I will keep driving the old 2003 GMC 2500 HD with the 8.1l Vortec till she needs a rebuild. That rock solid ZF6 German engineered tranny just keeps getting the job done. 236000 miles and counting.

In fact, the old GM square bodies are quite appealing. I must be getting old!

I don't give a flip about gas mileage or my carbon foot print.


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I agree I was in the market for a newer truck but I Refuse to pay these prices it’s out of line. I’ll keep driving my 2000 F250 with a 7.3L. I’d love a newer truck but there is no need for a base model 4 door 4x4 to cost over 65k. Also good luck finding an 8’ bed.

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This is 2023, not 1973. There is a reason they don't put manuals in trucks anymore. Newer gas engines aren't designed to work with them. My old 1980's F150 got it's torque at 2000-2500 rpm. My current F150 needs 3800 rpm and many trucks over 4600 rpm to develop torque. Try backing a trailer or maneuvering in a tight spot with a manual that needs that much engine speed to get things moving. The torque converter in an automatic makes that much easier. It also eliminates the need to start in 2nd gear.

And I've never driven an automatic that couldn't manually be placed in the best gear for the situation. Too many automatic drivers just want to put it in "D" and forget about it. If I'm loaded or towing heavy, or driving in mountains I'm manually changing gears quite often, especially going down.

You could make an argument that manuals could still work well with diesel engines. But today's automatics do everything better. They last just as long and give no more problems than manuals. They stopped putting manuals in buses over 40 years ago. Virtually all other big trucks including Semi's are now using automatics.

I will concede that driving a manual can be fun and I do enjoy it. That is why they are still offered in small trucks like Tacoma, Wranglers, and some sports cars. But I wouldn't be interested in a manual transmission in any truck made in the last 30 years. If you want a truck to work with automatics are better.


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Pretty well said JMR. I have an Aisin in my Dodge. Had two 6 speed manuals in Dodges before this one and all I can say is how much this auto works.


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Originally Posted by JMR40
And I've never driven an automatic that couldn't manually be placed in the best gear for the situation. Too many automatic drivers just want to put it in "D" and forget about it. If I'm loaded or towing heavy, or driving in mountains I'm manually changing gears quite often, especially going down.


That doesn't meet the need here. I'm going to go so far as to say "you're wrong" but I'm going to try to explain why so as not to start a fight. smile It is pretty mountainous here. One of my favorite roads .. gets me to my hunting spot .. is steep in sections and curvy in sections but it also has some flat and straight, some flat and curvy, some steep and straight. The conditions change so quickly that changing what gear you're in with an automatic is an absolute pain in the ass. It'll cost 10-15 minutes driving from hunting to home .. at least it does me. The problem is that the shifters on the automatics aren't intuitive / "by feel" well enough.

Picture coming down a long hill straight ahead at 65-70 going into some 30-35 mph turns, a short straight stretch, maybe a little uphill, then another steeper drop with turns, straights, etc. It's easy with a stick, it's a pain in the ass with an automatic. You could just slow down but if you do you'll trigger a road rage incident from the people behind you who are more able to drive the road conditions. I don't want to be that self-centered dick behind the wheel.


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Originally Posted by Cowboybart
Originally Posted by TheKid
If you haven’t driven a pickup with an auto newer than 99 you might be pleasantly surprised. The newer 5,6, and 10 speeds offer a lot more control over the old 3 and 4 speeds.

Except when starting on a slick surface. In an auto, no matter what, you are starting in first gear. If you know the surface is slick, in a manual you can start in second or third and get your wheel speed up to get moving. In an auto, first gear puts too much torque to a slick surface and you get immediate wheel spin.
I don't own an auto, but I would consider buying one for a vacation or long distance driving car. All of my trucks and Jeeps are manuals, as is my wife's Toyota. I can't imagine driving in snow with an auto!
We just bought a "new" Jeep for my wife. We had to look long and hard for a manual as this will be her winter vehicle. Maybe we could have found one easier if she wasn't stuck on PURPLE, but when it arrives from NC she will be HAPPY HAPPY!
Millions of people have driven automatics in snow for forever now and they lived to tell about it.


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