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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 969
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 969 |
A friend came over the other day to load some new 45acp cases he has had for about 20 years. I was sizing them and crunch my decapping pin broke. When I inspected the case it had no flash hole. I looked through the remaining cases to prevent busting another pin. Out of the 500 cases 13 had no flash hole and about 20 had off center holes. 18 of them had flash holes that were nearly as large as the primer pocket. We loaded the remainder of these cases with a mild load of Unique and a 230 FMJ and went to the range. Out of the 1st 8 round mag 6 of the cases split. I am in the process of pulling all the bullets and junking the entire lot of brass. Of course after 20 years there is no sense contacting winchester. It is not the first time I have had trouble with their brass but it will be the last. Their quality control hasnt been all that good for a loooong time.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
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That's not encouraging.  If you bought brass, maybe have pix, or a story, I really want to hear from you. steve  303british.com It will only take a few seconds. Your name won't be divulged. I think we should remind Winchester of their responsibilities to the shooting community. I have another update. Things are moving, albeit slowly. I did not receive a response from the Canadian Rep, Beth Mercer. It was obvious that she forwarded my email to Winchester because I received this.
Winchester 0521-021
Contact photo
From Cxxxz, Christine EALT on 2021-05-06 16:07
Details Plain text
Hello stephen
I wanted to reach out to you about your concern with some defective cases. I would like you too know that our Quality Control team is working really hard to get this taken care of and I am sorry for the inconvenience. If you would like to send the bad shell casing back I will be glad to give you a refund and pick that up at no cost to you. Please let me know.
Thank you,
There are two things that make this response sad. First, Christine, the writer, didn't check the case number/original communication (Winchester 0521-021) before responding. Had she done so, she would have seen the pictures and write up I forwarded. There was not a single case, as she makes reference to, but rather, 17 of the first 50 out of the bag. The second is her spelling. I suppose I should appreciate that at least it wasn't a form letter. It was a complaint however, so customer service people check their spelling and do not refer to customers by their first names. Hopefully, I will hear from Winchester from someone above the associate level.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
Campfire Outfitter
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After that letter yesterday, I sent this response. Hi Christine. I appreciate that you emailed. I am not angry with Winchester per se. I am disappointed that this is an ongoing problem that has been left unresolved. Let me be clear, it wasn't a single case, but rather, there were 17 defective cases of the first 50 taken from the bag. I sent two pictures. I could not forward all the pictures because of the limit what your company allows at the customer support page. I am not a tool and die maker, but spoke to one about the problem. I showed him the cases. Without seeing the press and die, he could not say with absolute certainty that the punch was past due replacement. It could have been a fouling or misalignment problem. Regardless, he told me was that QC is automated and these cases should have been picked up before they reached the bag. Something went wrong. I spoke with people at my club, and talked to acquaintances on the web. I wanted to know if any of them had experienced this problem with Winchester cases before. I got over 40 responses in two days. Taking into account that people on the Internet tend to exaggerate or misreport things, I followed up all the emails and was dismayed with the pictures I received. I discovered this problem has been going on for at least three years that I can determine. I think you understand that poor QC has already affected your business. I appreciate the follow up, but honestly, how do I politely say that you are shooting yourselves in the foot, and deserve it, due to inaction? The industry is fighting politicians and COVID. Things are difficult. It's sad when the last case maker product on the shelves is Winchester. I am not saying this to insult, but I switched to Prvi Partizan, Starline and military surplus cases for much of my reloading. My competition loads have always been Lapua. I suggest that if Winchester keeps walking this road, they'll end up in receivership like other US firearms/accessory companies. --- Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell 303british.com Visit my bookstore at www.303british.com. Latest releases - 24Hr Campfryer & More Campfyrer Tales - outdoor fiction! --- I got an answer back this morning. I hope it is sincere and my observations and pictures make it to the QC manager. She could be paying my lip service, but I know that mine was not the first complaint about these cases. My voice, added to the choir may help. If it turns things around, then it is worth chasing. I have asked that she send me a follow up and the problem that the QC manager found. Hello Stephen
I really appreciate your concern and value it. I will make sure I escalate this to our Quality Control Manger and will work to get this resolved. If I can do anything else to help please let me know. If you would like a refund for the defective cases I will be glad to pick those up at no charge to you and give you a refund. Please let me know.
Thanks Christine
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,355
Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Feb 2003
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How about General Dynamics brass? I’ve gotten both mil stamp and 223 REM head stamp brass. I believe it’s made in Canada. The quality looks good, no culls so far in the few thousand that I have bought. That sounds strange... I have worked at a company that was owned by Olin aerospace until 1987 when I quit. They would give me a break on buying Winchester ammo. They now send me a pension. I have worked for the same company when it was owned by General Dynamics, until 2008 when I quit.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,943
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,943 |
Funny, we've been saying it's garbage for a while now, and just now you are catching on? The red and black bag stuff is chidt. Repeat. Repeat... Send a letter Steve, they will listen to you. I'm sure..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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Funny, we've been saying it's garbage for a while now, and just now you are catching on? The red and black bag stuff is chidt. Repeat. Repeat... Send a letter Steve, they will listen to you. I'm sure.. No you haven't. You claimed that the government was making brass out of algum, and you were getting splinters! I already sent them three letters, and a cake. A real good one too - strawberry freckles. Made from scratch! They were appreciative. One person asked for the recipe! Of course, I told her that they have to learn to make cases first. No more sweets from me at the GDOT parties!
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,260
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
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the new Winchester brass i have purchased ,your right Winchester brass is far from perfect brass. i just use Winchester brass to hunt with and i do inspect each piece of brass ,i do end up throw some away. when i target shoot or wanted see how well a rifle shoots i always use Lapua brass if Lapua does make that certain cartridge ,sometimes i can improvise with some Lapua brass. right now if you need brass Winchester may be all you can find ? good luck,Pete53
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124 |
I screwed up, nothing new there, and found I was short 350RM brass. No chance of me finding some so I looked at what 350RM shooters use to do. They would cut down Winchester 7mmRM . It was the thinnest ,thus the easiest. OK, 7mmRM is right up there with 30-06 for common. In metro Vancouver, the third largest metro are in Canada I found one store with a couple of bags of red bag and another with a one box of Nosler. The Nosler was twice the price. I passed on the Nosler. I considered myself lucky.
I haven't formed the 350RM yet.
You can hunt longer with wind at your back
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,709
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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the new Winchester brass i have purchased ,your right Winchester brass is far from perfect brass. i just use Winchester brass to hunt with and i do inspect each piece of brass ,i do end up throw some away. when i target shoot or wanted see how well a rifle shoots i always use Lapua brass if Lapua does make that certain cartridge ,sometimes i can improvise with some Lapua brass. right now if you need brass Winchester may be all you can find ? good luck,Pete53 If people don't send in complaints with pictures, or send back the brass, they won't do anything. If you can, please send them pictures of your bad brass. They'll get the picture! (No pun intended).
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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