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Tungsten super shot, Who's using these bad boys?

Current prices show about 15 bucks per shell for 3" 12g...huh?

Whats normal prices before this years ammo insanity?

Actual effective killing distance?

who has, BTDT?

This spring I’ve watched seven birds die from seven shots with the federal 20ga tss shells. They work

Was doing some patterning and sighting in the red dot on my 20 Wednesday. The guys shooting 5 Stand asked about turkey shells. When I showed them my TSS targets and pics of my .410 TSS targets, they were pretty much amazed.

If head-shooting turkeys at ranges up to 50 yards or so, maybe more is what you want to do, TSS is the way to get it done, and you don’t need $15 3” 12s to do it; $9 20s or $6 410s are fine.😛

9.5’s are serious business from my 410. I’m shooting Apex Ninjas

I believe they do work, No doubt there.

These 7 birds were killed at what distances?

Looks like the 12g has 8.5 shot,

I use bigger shot for trap, just doesn't compute................

https://www.super18tungstenshot.com/blogs/education/what-makes-tss-so-effective


These guys load 9’s for the 12 gauge.


https://apexmunition.com/product/pt-3-5-12-gauge-3-5-2-5-oz-5-shells/




From the 1st link


COMPARING VARIOUS SHOT MATERIALS

For illustration, here's a comparison of pellets of various shot material. Let's say that each pellet is going 1100 fps (muzzle velocity), at sea level and at 70 deg F. Here's the distance each type pellet will give you 1.25" of ballistics gel penetration, as well as showing the number of pellets per ounce. When you think about the penetration per pellet along with the number of pellets available to penetrate the target, these numbers will illustrate why density makes such a huge difference in a shotshell's performance on fowl.

8g/cc Steel #2 (123/oz) – 45.7 yds
11g/cc Nickel Plated lead #5 (174/oz) – 60.4 yds
12g/cc Hevi-13 #6 (208/oz) – 60.4 yds
15g/cc Fed HWT #7 (220/oz) – 81 yds
18g/cc TSS #8-1/2 (300/oz) – 84.5 yds



I shoot tss 9.5’s from my 410 and Federal HWT 7’s from my 20.

Big difference between lead shot and tss.

I will still shoot cheap lead though.

Never had any issues killing turkeys to 60 yards with lead #4 or #5.

It’s all good.

Just decided to go all out this season. This is all fun and games, doncha know?

My main problem is I am sitting on about 75 of the 10 gauge loads and probably 250 12 gauge 2 3/4" and 3" buffered magnum 4s, 5s and 6s.

Need to shoot those up.

I might try TSS or Hevi Shot if I get me a little 20.

20-50 yards

The way I explain it to people - would you rather get hit by a golf ball or a tennis ball? The tennis ball is bigger but the golf ball is a lot denser and is going to hurt a lot more. Same thing with TSS 9s (golf ball) and lead 5s (tennis ball)



Don’t buy that little 20 - you won’t shoot the 10 or 12 anymore.

This is my first year ever using a 20ga, have always used 12's and 10's. Using the Federal TSS 20ga 3" #9's and, I admit, took me a while to get over the #9 shot. That's always been skeet sized shot.

The first bird to fall to this set-up was a big, mature, NW Illinois bird in the Galena area. He was just outside of 40 yards and not coming an inch closer. The TSS load dumped him with the same authority I've seen in the past from 12's and 10's. And he hit the ground at the shot, and not one twitch! No flopping around with feathers going everywhere, bang = dead.

Just got home from trip number 2 last night from up in central Wisconsin, just South of Mauston. Anything would have killed this bird, maybe 15 yards away. So no real testimony for the TSS.

But the biggest advantage to me with the TSS shot, is I'm able to use a much lighter and more compact turkey set-up that still delivers a huge punch. Where I hunt, mainly IL and WI, 20ga is the smallest bore I can legally use, so no 410 option. Otherwise I'd have another use for my old Winchester model 37.

One more trip coming up. I was able to get a "leftover" tag for NE Wisconsin up by my place in Algoma.

I'll continue to use TSS shot, it's performance is fantastic.

Now, have to figure out how to get pics from my phone into this thread! Lol!

That’s a problem many would like to have just about now.

There in lies their problem.

Lack of planning. I knew 10 gauge ammo would almost dry up so I bought a ton at about $10 a box years ago.

The 12 gauge hoard happened when I realized my 24" barreled Gold was one picky SOB. I stocked up on a schittload of the Federal Turkey Thugs #5 & #6 doubt I will ever shoot half of em up.

Even if I buy an auto 20 I will probably just stick with #6 lead. For my style of hunting the TSS holds no advantages.

Out to 40 yards which is a hell of a long ways especially in the timber a load of lead 6s will work just fine, hell even a 1 oz. load of 7 1/2s will hammer a bird at 40.

Even most of the birds I have killed w my 10 have been under 35 yards, no need for a sledge hammer when a trim hammer works just fine.

Have not put any of the TSS stuff on turkey meat, yet. But I have put some on paper. TSS 9's will absolutely make a 40 yard gun out of a .410 bore. And that is the ONLY way you'll accomplish that.

We run the older Federal Heavyweight 7's in our 20 gauges. BAD ASS !!!!! May have to try the TSS stuff in them at some point. But I bought a whole crapload of the Federals up a few years ago when I found out they were soon to be history.

In our 12's and 10's there is.......in my mind, for my style of turkey hunting......zero need for any HTL shot type.

The 3” 20ga Turkey Ninjas just creamed the target at 40 yards, but so did the 2 3/4” 9s. Big difference on the butt end! Still have two weeks to check results on the real thing. Plan is to go out again in the a.m.

Pretty sure I don’t want to encounter any TSS in my turkey nuggets!

I can confirm that.

Bit into a Heavyweight 7 pellet two years ago. Long story short............ I'm in the process of having that tooth removed, now and getting an implant. Talk about f'n HURT !!!!!!! Those pellets have ZERO give.

I’m using #9 in my 20g. Dropped 2 this year at 25 and 40. The pattern and penetration testing tell me I can go 60 with no problem. Possibly longer but I haven’t tried. I certainly enjoy carrying a 20g around far more than the 12g. My face appreciates the reduction in recoil as well.

warpig602, what choke tube? I'm using a Carlson's TSS extended .555" with very good results. Also a Tru-Glo ported extended but forget at the moment what the constriction is.

Carlsons TSS

I'd almost think, if, and I say if, attempting shots over 60 yards,

one should consider more than just a front bead for a sight,

thinking maybe a Red Dot sight?

[quote=Kenneth]

Yes sir, this one has a 2moa dot and 32moa ring. I dont think I’d take a 60 yard shot knowingly but I’ve been off on distance I. The woods more than once.

I have a Burris FastFire 3, with a 3 moa dot, on mine.

TSS is all I use but I only shoot 20 ga. I roll my own because when I started using it, that was the only way you could shoot it. Now everyone is selling shells.

Used Federal tss 20ga last week on my turkey. Was not a real test as the shot was 15 yards. Have one more tag and may or may not get out again. May is shaping up to be too busy.

I will warn anyone using TSS for the first time or even using it at all.
Look the meat over VERY GOOD, biting into a TSS shot will hurt like you broke a tooth, which it very well could. Don't ask me how I know

I used the old winchester supreme elite extended ranges until they stopped making them. They were almost 10 bucks a shell in 2005ish. Bad stuff..and then TSS comes along.

Last week of the season a few years ago, been dealing with this one bird a lot during the season and It had been a down year, he finally came out into a field with a hen and I'm up above them some. Looked about 60 yards to me but the terrain fooled me, a couple dips in the terrain between me and him but I felt confident in the shot. Using the 3 1/2in 7 or 7 1/2s...cant remember. He stuck his head way up and I sniped him. Stepped it off at 78 big steps. He disappeared in the grass. Stone dead, he didnt know what hit him. Would I do it again, no. I'm not a fan of those shots but I got lucky that time. It does make me feel better about my turkey gun setup though. And turkeys dont flop anymore.

I did see a guy patterning his 410 with 9 shot and it was shooting through 3/4 plywood.

I popped one in Missouri couple weeks ago using a 20ga , #9 tss, .570 Rob Roberts choke , guy with me stepped off 70 yards , he couldn’t believe it . Shotgun was a sx4 with 26in barrel.

Just Got the Stevens 301 20 ga with 26" barrel. Have not had the opportunity to turkey hunt with it, but next year looks promising. Guy on You Tube shooting this gun with a Indian Cree 555 using Federal TSS # 9, and at 75 yards you can see very little difference between his 40 and 75 yard target.....dead bird for sure. Also, another guy shooting the Stevens 301 in 20 ga using the stock choke that comes with the gun and TSS #9 Federals at 60 yards and his pattern at 40 and 60 looks same. Those shells are expensive but how many times have you had that big boy hang up outside 40 and how many times have you wondered if he 50 yards, or 60 yards, or even 70 yards....it nice to know that you could take him if you wanted and not have to be concerned with the shot. That is the beauty of TSS....it takes away that doubt of distance. Me, I limit my shot to 40 yards on that ole tom, but with TSS if you misjudge it by a few yards he will drop for sure.

Very little difference between 30-60 with TSS

Here are some 60 yard groups with TSS# 9 and various chokes, Carlsons, pattern master, Indian creek

Shooting a gobbler at 70 yds just doesn't feel like spring gobbler hunting to me. Maybe I'm getting old.

I agree. And we wonder why Turkey populations are declining throughout the south. I love my TSS but I’m also most interested in an even pattern with some room for error at 40 as opposed to wanting to shoot them way out there. Also nice to know there is some margin for error in range estimation too

Compare these 40 yard tss patterns to the 12ga “turkey” shells we shot in the 90s and it’ll make you wonder how we killed them with such weak patterns back them

I switched to a 20ga and TSS shot due to ease of carry. Benelli M2 20ga is nice to carry compared to my SBE II and my Browning Cynergy 3.5 inch.

My philosophy has also changed about turkey hunting. After having shot a bunch at extended ranges, and even using a rifle a few times. I no longer prefer to do that. If I can not call one into <30 yards, then I do not need to punch my tag.

I love the hunt, but detest cleaning the stinky birds and do not especially enjoy wild turkey meat.

They are declining here too. Too many 4 legged predators and raptors. A nesting pair of bald eagles on my cousins has us seeing and hearing fewer birds.
They catch the schitt out of the neighbors catfish.

Shooting tom turkeys will have a minimal if any impact on populations.


A regular full from a 12 will give plenty of killing pattern and still allow for estimation errors.

My dad still uses an old 1100 Mag with a fixed full. Have seen him kill several just short ot 50.

I didn't start using TSS to kill them at distance. I went that route to save 4lbs and 2/3 recoil. The TSS simply gave me the same performance at any distance I could expect to shoot a Turkey as my A400 did with #5:



If shooting Turkeys at XX yards is the reason Turkey are in decline, sounds like a game managment issue vs shotshell issue.

3 consecutive shots from a Franchi A3 20ga and a cheap $10 HSUT .582 choke. I shot 4 at 25, 28, 48, and 62 this season and all were pulverized on the spot just like the 50+ prior TSS birds I’ve killed. I shoot most up close, but when I’m out of state I’ll kill em when I know I can if the situation calls for it.

Great advice...I missed one last night, found out the hard way.

Nice patterns everyone! I love my 20 gauge with tss #9’s

I am like Reloader7RM in that I want them in close but if I have to close the deal, I know I can. I have killed them from 5 yards to a little over 50 yards with #9 TSS but in a perfect world, would like them to be around 20 yards.
TSS shoot really tight as you can see in the above patterns, mine look very similar and therefore I use a red dot type sight on my guns.

I have yet to harvest a bird with TSS to worry about the shot pellet consumption. I make turkey bratwurst & burger and assume a TSS pellet could hurt my grinder if it gets caught!

At one time, WV listed mistake shooting of hens as the major hunter threat to turkeys. I’ll bet that's still the case. I’d also bet that as many get wounded and lost with lead as with high-tech loads. We need to do our job, pattern our guns, and stay in the lines when we shoot. You can’t assume how any load will perform in any gun. I learned that the hard way myself.

I have killed more than a few birds with TSS over the years but I would guess that I have sent several hundred dollars worth down range at target paper to get choke/shell/ and sights set all figured out.
I don't want to miss let alone wound one and have it get away.

Shooting federal #7 through my BPS10 and Indian creek tube. Shot a bird this year at 55 yards, pattern is unreal at that distance. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Would like to shoot target and 70 and 80 to see how much drop and pattern looks like

I understand what you guys are saying , but I was on the last day of my hunt with 1 hour left , that’s where he hung up .

It takes 3 TSS #9 pellets to weigh as much as 1 lead #4....make a bad shot with tiny shot and you will be in trouble.

People that are pushing TSS claim total pass through.....I noticed several turkey reports on facebook where people killed turkeys that had been previously shot with TSS tiny shot

Not something to brag about for sure

LFC
Welcome to the fire.
Just for the record, I do not shoot TSS to shoot birds way off. Some may be shooting it for that reason but not me.
Second, if people are claiming to have killed birds that have been shot with TSS, I don't doubt it. I have killed birds with TSS that have been shot with regular lead shells, so I don't see the point.
I will say that no matter what type of shell you care to use, be ethical in your hunting and know your and your equipment's limits, and don't push them, we owe it to the sport and the bird to make a quick clean kill.

Why then ?

At 25 or 30 yards with a tight choke and a head shot they could be killed with a dove load.

Read my last sentence, I want a quick clean kill. I put more pellets in the brain, and stem with TSS.
As I said before, shoot whatever shell you like, I like TSS, if you like dove loads well that is fine too as long as you can make a quick clean kill.

I like a pattern that a bumblebee couldn’t fly through. Smaller shot size means more pellets and tss means retained energy. Kills em more dead. That’s why I like tss.

Retained energy is based on weight....not on how hard something is.

Yeah, I think they’re heavier than lead; shot size being equal.

lead is 11 gr. per CM
TSS is 18-18.5 gr per CM
not only hard but heavy

This came straight from Apex Ammo facebook site when I asked about pellet weight.

My question to Apex.

"I hear all the claims....lets hear the facts. What's the actual weight of a TSS size 9 or 10 pellet ?"

Apex Ammunition's reply to me...Quote

"9's weigh 1.2grs. 9.5's weigh 1gr.

9's are the perfect TSS pellet size. More energy than lead 4's and equal energy to hevi shot 5's."

My reply to Apex...

"A lead #4 pellet weighs 3.30 grains....a lead #7 shot weighs 1.50 grains....both substantially more weight than the smaller TSS pellet. Energy is figured by computing weight and velocity. There is no way a #9 TSS pellet weighing a third of a #4 lead can have more energy than a lead #4 shot moving at the same velocity.....fact is a lead #7 has more energy than a TSS #9 size shot moving at equal velocity."

TSS only exists with companies like Federal because they can't make a lead shell that will out shoot a Winchester's Longbeard Ammo with "Shot Lock" technology.

I don't use Apex
I have killed more than a few turkey with TSS, don't think any bounced off.
Once again shoot what you like, I know I will

TSS should retain its velocity, and hence energy better. Smooth hard shot also penetrates better. Just what that means out where the turkey is hard to quantify, just like “killing power” with other stuff. The patterns speak for themselves, as do results in the field.

Specialized ammo for a specific purpose, as are the tight chokes most use. Read JB’s recent piece about hard shot for more general uses.

I don’t know about the physics of i but my own pattern testing and dead gobblers have convinced me. Some good YouTube videos showing penetration at extended ranges too

Before TSS came along not many people in their right mind tried to shoot turkeys with a Lead #7....

Fact is a Lead #7 pellet weighs more than a TSS #9 pellet.

You take two projectiles one heavier and one lighter you send them out the muzzle at the same velocity the heavier pellet will retain more energy and velocity than the lighter pellet.

#7 lead beats TSs #9

Don't take a Rocket scientist to see that.

LFC
Just a question, have you ever killed a bird with TSS?

That article on hard shot is in Handloader 330 Feb-Mar 2021. Explains thing pretty well, as JB usually does.

Lighter guns, less kick, better patterns. My .410 puts about a dozen pellets in the head and neck of a turkey target out to 50 yards. Don’t plan on shooting that far, but 40 yards with a little cushion suits me. Have only patterned the 20ga to 40 yards, but it’s a crusher too.

Shoot what you like. For head-shots on turkeys, I like the odds with tungsten. In the Fall, I might choose something more conventional, with the possibility of flushed turkeys, grouse, or maybe even a squirrel.

Why not a sensible compromise of #7.5 TSS, instead of the #9 rat shot? Not quite as many pellets but certainly more of every other measure of a turkey load.

I shot several with a Hevi shot mixed load 4x5x7 and I grew tired of picking little shot out of my meat

just so you know, I have killed them with lead, Hevi13, Heavyweight, and TSS.
I was not a fan of Hevi13 but will say if I were not shooting TSS, I think I would shoot Longbeards.
I roll my own so I can control what goes in and how they are loaded

Hard to argue with facts.

I found this on another website I am a member of. I think this sums it up better than I can so I copied it and am pasting it here.

Armchair turkey ballistic junkies have generally come to accept 1.25" penetration in ballistic gel to be the minimum required to cleanly kill turkeys. Penetration in ballistic gel is a much more useful metric than foot-pounds of energy because it is accurate across all different pellet materials (lead, HS, HW, TSS, etc) For example, a TSS 9 will penetrate as deeply as a lead 4, even though the lead 4 carries significantly more ft-lbs of energy. The TSS penetrates so deeply because of its greater density and small size (reduced surface area). So now for your question...

Per KPY Ballistics, lead 6s at 1200 fps yield 1.25" of penetration in ballistic at 0' elevation and 70 degrees to 52 yds. At 1050 fps (magnum load) they will do it to 47 yds,

Lead 5s at 1200 penetrate 1.25" to 64 yds and when launched at 1050, 58 yds,

My takeaway is that to maximize range with Winch LBs, one should choose 5s. The only way to choose between the standard and magnum (slower) load is to buy a box of each and pattern through your setup. The range at which your pattern density falls to 100 in a 10" circle is your max range. Sixes may put more pellets on target but I would not trust them with regards to penetration and killing potential beyond 50 yds.

Here is a video of a guy shooting ballistic gel. If you don't want to watch it all, skip to around the 4 min. mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwD4qzRbjYw&ab_channel=AP2020Outdoors

He lost me with his 70 yard scenario. Well before that point, no matter how long you’ve worked them, let ‘em walk. Drop begins to rear its head too, and a lot of those loads are pretty slow, which naturally increases that. I’d not take a shot beyond the range I’ve tested a load for both pattern and POI, any more than I’d go deer hunting with an rifle that I hadn’t checked.

Energy is just a comparative number, just like with rifle bullets. What matters is getting sufficient penetration and pattern density to do enough damage to drop your quarry. If you get that with 7 1/2s, fine, but smaller gauges benefit from the high pellet count they get with the small shot, and as the video shows, penetration is not an issue. For body shots, I’d go with larger shot, and probably lead, and a different, more conventional choke. No sense burgerizing a fine bird with the kind of patterns you get with TSS. Still working on my O/U 20. Might end up with TSS in one barrel and lead in the other. Since there are some days when both deer and turkey are legal for me, it might be a shot and slug combo.

JB’s article, which was focused on wingshooting, said the best patterns were with an IC choke.

I try my best to keep my shots inside 30 yards. I have patterned and know I can take them much further but I want them in at 30 or less.
As far as body shots, no thank you. if I can't get a head shot, I am out.

Pellet count does matter, no doubt about it. Thing is, I think there might be a trend toward the itty bitty shot in an attempt to make a turkey gun out of what would not normally be considered a turkey gun. The stunt shooters, the .410 toters, use a swarm of #9 to flush out the pattern from the little gun. TSS compensated for pellet size with density and hardness. Then the .410 toter can brag about killing a gobbler at 64 yards with a .410. I guess in the end a dead gobbler is a dead gobbler. I just don't see the point. But that's ok, to each their own.

He counts hits in the wattles as effective hits. Nope...

I was just talking about the penetration on the ballistics gel. I do not agree with the wattles hits nor his pattern assessment.

If the gun throws a killing pattern, how is it a stunt?

.410 Henry SS Fed TSS, 50 yards. I count 14 solid hits in the head and neck, not wattles.The Apex Ninja loads are better.



Lighter gun, lighter ammo, less recoil, adequate killing power. Just because it doesn’t “seem” right to you, doesn’t mean it’s a stunt. I don’t shoot stuff to brag about it, or impress internet jackholes.

The same gun with a Skeet tube put three Brenneke slugs inside a 2” square the same day.

I guess I won’t be using it. I had been vaguely aware of the stuff, then I saw some for sale today and did a double take: $52 for a box of 5! I’ve never had a problem killing turkeys with regular shot in ordinary 12 and 16 gauge guns. If I want to kill them beyond the 40 yards or so my 3 1/2” duck gun is good for, I’ll go to my .25-20 .

Would have filled the breast with TSS too.

Pappy,
As I said, a dead gobbler is a dead gobbler. Do as you see fit and good luck in that endeavour.

Penetration is not that bid a deal on thin skinned game like a turkey that is hopefully shot in the head that is why people can kill them with small shot like TSS #7s or #9s.

I'm a pretty good shot with a rifle or a shotgun but you shoot at enough turkeys and you'll eventually make a bad shot. When it happens I want a pellet size that I can depend on to smash through meat and bone and immobilize the turkey until I can put my foot on his head.
If Winchester ever came out with a reasonably priced TSS load with "Shot-lock" in a #5 pellet size I might give them a whirl...until then I'll shoot my #4 Winchester Longbeads.

Some, for certain. Hopefully less at the closer ranges I expect to shoot at. The tight patterns are best directed with some sort of sight to keep more of the shot where one wants it, like the prism on my .410.

Thanks, I usually do.

I spent a lot of time, effort, and money on assembling my setups and testing them to determine their capabilities. After all that, people that toss around terms like “stunt shooter” piss me off. Going out and buying a box of shells and going hunting without checking the patterns seems like more of a stunt to me. I know because I’ve done it. Opportunities here are too scarce to squander them trusting to luck.

Don’t hold your breath waiting for that. TSS shot from BP is >$50 a pound according to JB’s article, or over $3 an ounce. I used Active nickel-plated 5s on one some years ago from an old Stevens SxS. Just creamed him. In 2018, I shot at one at about the same range with the same shells in a different gun and he flew away unscathed. The next day, I called in probably the same bird (who was a lot more cautious) and killed him with those shells, but it was far from a clean kill. He flopped about 20 yards until I ran over and grabbed him. Not pretty. Was too busy the next two years to hunt, but decided to get a lighter gun and do it up right, including testing the patterning. Got that down, just need a volunteer. Might just test the setup that gave me trouble someday, but it’s dedicated now to claybirds so it would just be for fun.

I know the drill. My Benelli M1 12 gauge with Indian Creek .665" hits the 200 pellet strikes in 10" @ 40 yards mark with the Hevi13 3-2-6 shell. I shoot TSS #3 & #4's on coyotes. Or tungsten BB or T shot. I've been around a little bit myself and understand the effort it takes to work out a good combination. You use your pop gun and it works for you, good on ya. My turkey hunting guns start at 20 gauge and work up the ladder. It's all good.

Well, I did manage to take a nice Tom 2 weekends ago, 44 yards, very good shot, breast meat looked perfect, Very little blood and very little apparent damage from the #5 lead shot,

But yet, My Son bit into 2 pieces of shot that I did not see when field dressing,

Made me think twice about TSS.

I'm on another hunting site. They have a lot of PA turkey hunters on the site who are using TSS. Many are using 20 gage or .410 guns and TSS is an advantage in those gages. Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.

As the season progressed the guys posted their kills and the details. What I found interesting was that most of the kills were under 35 yards and many were at 15 or 20 yards.

At the ranges the guys are getting their turkeys good old lead shot would work fine.

I did buy a pound of TSS to reload for turkey but have not shot it. I'll save my TSS for the ducks.

I doubt I’ll carry anything over a 20ga for turkeys again. TSS isn’t about extending range for me. It’s about efficiency in smaller gauges. It’s more than efficient enough to do everything from my 20s, that I ever did with a 12. I’m not worried about it not having the ability to penetrate the body on a bad shot, after I’ve had #9 TSS flyers penetrate through the entire chest cavity, including bot wingbones, at over 40 yards, and keep going. I’ve used #6/7/8/9 TSS in 20ga in 3 different guns, and it penetrates better and patterns far tighter than anything I’ve used in the last 35 years of turkey hunting. I still have some 7s and 8s, but those and 6s are almost overkill. Until you’ve seen the penetration, patterning, and on game performance, it’s easy to doubt. I’d shoot running coyotes with #4-5 (or smaller) TSS all day long.

It's all just a fantasy....given time most will wake up.

Besides the smaller gages many guys mentioned the extreme range of TSS as one of the main reason they are shooting it.

Not my idea at all. Too much room for error and happenstance. If for some reason I needed more range, I’d simply use what Jim Carmichael calls a “cleverly concocted rifle cartridge”, legal here Spring and Fall. Don’t see that need in the Spring, but there are times in the Fall when it could be handy. A head shot, or a wing-butt shot with a mild round or even a roundball will do; anything that won’t blow up the meat.

Its not fantasy. Its real and TSS is a game changer. My post was not to put down TSS but to show that for many of us that TSS is not always needed.

I’m told my great grandfather had a saying, “Half a turkey is better than no turkey”. Back then birds were less plentiful. I’m not for ruining meat, but I guess he had a point…..grin

The only fantasy is from those who haven’t shot TSS on game or the patterning board. Same chokes hold better patterns to at least 20 yards further than lead or steel. #8s and #9s kill game better than lead 4s/6s. While I’ve shot some ducks and geese with it, and had no issues with tiny pellets in the meat, there’s that ‘paranoia’.....and it’s expensive for volume shooting, so I stick with other stuff. For turkeys, there’s been no issue at all....to around 45 yards, the patterns are so tight that most everything is in the head or neck, and what HAS hit the body, didn’t stop in the body....wound tracks through exit. I’ve picked FAR more #4/5/6 lead out of turkey breasts over the years, than #7/8/9 TSS over the last 7-8 years.

If it ain’t for you, it ain’t for you......but it’s not because it doesn’t do what it’s billed for, in spades.

In case you.missed the facts

If you want to hang your hat on per pellet energy, go right ahead. I’ll stick with 10-14 head and neck hits at as far as I care to shoot for my facts, proven repeatedly on the pattern board.

just glad the 40 or so birds I have killed with TSS, can't read this thread or they have gotten up and walk out of my freezer......

LOL….I think there’s only the one fact there, which happens to be the most irrelevant: muzzle energy.

Here’s some other facts: (when all else is equal)
— #9 TSS maintains velocity far better than almost any lead, much less #4s

—#9TSS penetrates FAR better at any range

—#9TSS has soo much more pattern density at any range, it’s almost silly to compare…..likely a MINIMUM of 4-5x more lethal strikes than any comparable #4 lead pattern possible.

—-(if energy ‘really matters’) #9 TSS is capable of putting far more energy into the head/neck of a turkey at almost any range, as #4 lead.



If you’re gonna shoot 10/12ga stuff to under 40 yards, then you can kill birds without TSS. If you’re just gonna shoot under 30 yards with smaller gauges, you can kill birds without it. In either case, you will definitely kill birds with TSS to any range a 10/12ga lead load ever will, with a smaller gauge and less payload.

How could aTSS #9 weighing 3 times less than a Copper plated lead #4 retain velosity farther than the heavier superior manly sized pellet a #4 lead...

That theory goes against the laws of physics....

There’s this thing called bc. They spend some time on it around here. It applies to any shape, and density/mass figures in. In lieu if that, I’d posit that you could try launching a basketball and a golf ball at the same velocities, and get back to us.

Maybe revisit those ‘laws’ of physics, as well.