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I may have a chance to purchase a post-64 ( G series s/n prefix) Win m70 International Army Match Rifle ( 308 Win, 24" bbl, 1-12" twist). There is not a lot of info on them. I am curious as to what level of accuracy can be expected.

From my research, they were built by the Winchester custom group, were bisonite bedded (action and first 1.5" of barrel), and were expected to be MOA shooters. MOA for a match ready rifle isn't too impressive by itself. I am curious if anyone has shot one, and can report on what was the actual level of accuracy achieved. A Rem 40x would be typically good for 0.5 MOA ( and the two I have shot were sub 0.4 MOA).

Would like to read about your individual knowledge base on this model 70 configuration, and range results. Thanks in advance.


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My push feed M70 target rifle in 308 put 5 GMMs in one ragged hole @100.

It's the top one.

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Thanks NYNY. A ragged hole is good news.

Check your pm.


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Only 179 international Army match rifles were made.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

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Originally Posted by buttstock
I may have a chance to purchase a post-64 ( G series s/n prefix) Win m70 International Army Match Rifle ( 308 Win, 24" bbl, 1-12" twist). There is not a lot of info on them. I am curious as to what level of accuracy can be expected.

From my research, they were built by the Winchester custom group, were bisonite bedded (action and first 1.5" of barrel), and were expected to be MOA shooters. MOA for a match ready rifle isn't too impressive by itself. I am curious if anyone has shot one, and can report on what was the actual level of accuracy achieved. A Rem 40x would be typically good for 0.5 MOA ( and the two I have shot were sub 0.4 MOA).

Would like to read about your individual knowledge base on this model 70 configuration, and range results. Thanks in advance.

Was 1 moa with irons? Also was it a 3 shot guarantee or just something you heard off the net? I'd bet they would shoot lights out. I asked the yahoo to post some pics of how his iron sight rifles shoot in the other thread, but he hasnt as of yet. Of course all of our rifles are "one holers", but no body seems to want to produce pics of some such groups. A good pic of a target shot during competition would be just the ticket. Good luck getting one though. I'd post pics of honest groups, if I had one. Im not bashful though.


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Originally Posted by 79S
Only 179 international Army match rifles were made.


a little off topic... John I am sure you are on target.... but then. its the campfire...

as a buddy of mine who was a Navy Seal during Vietnam, with proof....

and he use to say, that there was over 20,000 guys who claimed they were Seals in Vietnam..
and he had met almost all of them....

actually about 500 of them served in Vietnam...but he met all 20,000 of them.


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Originally Posted by Seafire
Originally Posted by 79S
Only 179 international Army match rifles were made.


a little off topic... John I am sure you are on target.... but then. its the campfire...

as a buddy of mine who was a Navy Seal during Vietnam, with proof....

and he use to say, that there was over 20,000 guys who claimed they were Seals in Vietnam..
and he had met almost all of them....


Uh ok...


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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[Linked Image]

Seafire must be into the cough medicine I have no idea wth he’s talking about with navy seals and Vietnam..


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by buttstock
I may have a chance to purchase a post-64 ( G series s/n prefix) Win m70 International Army Match Rifle ( 308 Win, 24" bbl, 1-12" twist). There is not a lot of info on them. I am curious as to what level of accuracy can be expected.

From my research, they were built by the Winchester custom group, were bisonite bedded (action and first 1.5" of barrel), and were expected to be MOA shooters. MOA for a match ready rifle isn't too impressive by itself. I am curious if anyone has shot one, and can report on what was the actual level of accuracy achieved. A Rem 40x would be typically good for 0.5 MOA ( and the two I have shot were sub 0.4 MOA).

Would like to read about your individual knowledge base on this model 70 configuration, and range results. Thanks in advance.

Was 1 moa with irons? Also was it a 3 shot guarantee or just something you heard off the net? I'd bet they would shoot lights out. I asked the yahoo to post some pics of how his iron sight rifles shoot in the other thread, but he hasnt as of yet. Of course all of our rifles are "one holers", but no body seems to want to produce pics of some such groups. A good pic of a target shot during competition would be just the ticket. Good luck getting one though. I'd post pics of honest groups, if I had one. Im not bashful though.


As been pointed that yahoo is Larry root


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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What seafire was pointing out,

was something has a limited number of them...

500 Seals served in Vietnam.... but there were thousands that claimed to have been Seals and served in Vietnam...

hence, 179 rifles of those Winchesters made as you point out...

but how many people claim to have one... a lot more than were ever made...

maybe in my old age I need to learn to communicate better.....

I don't do cough syrup anyway... old G.I. Gin..

I have a covid shot... ain't that suppose to cure everything according to Joe Biden, Fauci and Kate Brown??


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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Originally Posted by Seafire
What seafire was pointing out,

was something has a limited number of them...

500 Seals served in Vietnam.... but there were thousands that claimed to have been Seals and served in Vietnam...

hence, 179 rifles of those Winchesters made as you point out...

but how many people claim to have one... a lot more than were ever made...

maybe in my old age I need to learn to communicate better.....

I don't do cough syrup anyway... old G.I. Gin..

I have a covid shot... ain't that suppose to cure everything according to Joe Biden, Fauci and Kate Brown??


Those 179 rifle have something the other don’t have,


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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I've only seen a couple of the M70 International's over the years. Both owned by friends. One might still have his. I'll have to check in with him. They were supposedly produced for ISU shooting (now known as ISSF) which means they were 300M and CISM rifles. The 300M meter 10 ring is 3.6" and 300M converts to 328 yds. I'll let ya'll figure out the MOA on that one! The 300M course of fire for men is 40 shots in each of three positions (prone, standing and kneeling). A competitive rifle is expected to be able to hold 10 ring for the full course.

These rifles were differentiated from the regular M70 Targets by their stock and adjustable triggers. The Internationals had the more vertical pistol grip and deeper forearm that represented the International rifles of the day (think 40XC) versus the Marksman stocks of the typical M70 Match rifles (see NYNY's pic above).

More than a few were used for NRA Highpower and at least one of the ones I saw was clip slotted. I'd say the accuracy you could expect would partially depend on the mileage on the barrel. If it was used competitively in highpower or ISU competition, where barrels are consumables it will be a crapshoot for accuracy. We competitors tend to put A LOT of rounds downrange in practice and competition. Good luck chasing that rifle and post pics if you are successful.

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Originally Posted by ChrisF
...
The 300M meter 10 ring is 3.6" and 300M converts to 328 yds. I'll let ya'll figure out the MOA on that one! The 300M course of fire for men is 40 shots in each of three positions (prone, standing and kneeling). A competitive rifle is expected to be able to hold 10 ring for the full course.
...


Rough figures:

3.6" / 3.28 = 1.097561 inches at 100 yards

1 moa is about 1.0472 inches at 100 yards

1.097561 / 1.0472 = 1.0481, so the 10 ring is roughly 1.05 moa wide.

120 rounds into just over moa is the expectation.

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...I will add to that. MOA at just over 300 yards is the expectation from me..a world of difference from 100 yards MOA. Plus I'm sure the shooters expected "inner 10" capability (45mm or 1.77"...in today's scoring scheme. I'm not sure how the scoring looked in the 70's and 80's when these rifles were current). What percent of shots in the inner 10? You'll have to find one of the shooters from the era. I'm about to call my friend that competed in Highpower with one of these. I have a couple of friends that were on the 3P circuit back then. I'll see if they had experience with these rifles as well.

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My figures were mathematical, and an moa is an angle which is fixed no matter the distance.

That said, I believe I understand your point which is fitting all the shots into the same moa angle is more difficult to achieve at 300+ yards than it is at 100 yards.

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mathman,
I wasn't questioning your math which I'm sure is spot on. But rather giving more context to the accuracy relative to the intended use. I know you get this, but while MOA subtension increases linearly as distance increases (1.04" at 100 yards, 2.08 at 200 yards, 3.12 at 300 yards etc). shot dispersion does not increase in a linear fashion as the distance increases. A rifle shooting 1" groups at 100 yards will very likely shoot bigger than 3" groups at 300 yards.

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Well, I bought that Win m70 International Army Match G-series rifle. Will pick it up tomorrow. It is not factory original. The factory barrel was replaced with a Boots Obermeyer 5R 1-11" twist 24" stainless barrel (308 Win). The barrel has very low round count. The short action is clip-slotted, and has front / rear iron sight base blocks. I'll put A set of Redfield International (F/R) sights, and a steel-tubed Weaver T-10 scope on it. The previous owner has no idea where the original barrel is, or why it was rebarreled . He did not rebarrel it.

I bought it as a shooter, not for pure collecting. Should make for an interesting cast bullet and squirrel rifle.


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Looking forward to pictures. It should be a great shooter. I recently put a 1 in 12 Obermeyer on my M70 Palma rifle and am very impressed with it.


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Originally Posted by buttstock
... The factory barrel was replaced with a Boots Obermeyer 5R 1-11" twist 24" stainless barrel (308 Win). The barrel has very low round count. ...


If that doesn't shoot little clusters I don't know what will.

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Quote
[/quote]buttstock,
Great! Post pics! I would say if you were after a shooter, you very likely got that with a fresh Obie barrel on there. That would be an upgrade. I got to speak with my friend that campaigned an International Army Match for a bit. He said it was accurate, but he had better accuracy from well built custom rifles. He said no external trigger adjustments (I read 79S's article and see it's consistent with his recollection). Waiting on my 300M shooting friend to get back to me still.

[quote] I recently put a 1 in 12 Obermeyer on my M70 Palma rifle and am very impressed with it.

Treasure that rifle MikeS. If it's a Palma 1976 Centennial rifle, it might be rarer than a Int'l Army Match. You must have a friend with a stash of Boot's best, because I've been told it's unlikely he'll be making barrels going forward.

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