Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 9.3 vs. 35 (again)

Regarding a 9.3x62 with a 286 grain Nosler partition vs. a 35 Whelen with a 280 grain Swift A-frame - what advantages regarding penetration and effectiveness of these cartridges' loads would there be?

I finally got a 35 Whelen - a pre-64 Winchester with an after-market barrel. I'm sort of loaded up on 35 calibers, molds, bullets etc.

Euro-trash vs red-blooded American. Take your pick. GD

Now that nailed it.

I like the 35 Whelen. With modern pressure I believe to be a better performer. Since CFE 223 and MR 2000 have been released there is now a lot of horse power added to this old timer. 225 grain bullets at 2900 fps is a deadly combination. 250 grainers as well. I have never used the Swift A-Frame in my Whelen.

There it is.

2900 fps with a 225 grain bullet from a Whelen would likely be a deadly combination.

Throw them both up in the air. Catch either one on the way down and you’ll have an outstanding big game rifle.

I've taken a number of game animals in Africa with my Dakota 35 Whelen using 250 NP & 280 SAF: Leopard, Sable, Sitatunga, Lichtenstein Hartebeest, Warthog, Bushbuck, Oribi, & Kafue Lechwe.

Two years ago I chose my Ruger Hawkeye 35 Whelen with 280 gr. SAF to take a once in a life time Colorado bull Shiras Moose.

It's my favorite medium bore, but I have also used the 9.3x62 in Africa and like it just as much. I have only used the 286 gr. in the '62, both NP & SAF.

The good thing about the 9.3x62 in Africa of course is, it is legal for DG in most countries, whereas the Whelen is not.

Incredible brass life...

I doubt the "standard" 35 caliber 16" twist would stabilize a 280 grain Swift. Haven't tried it so don't know.

The faster twist in JB's 9.3 BS would appear to be its biggest advantage over our 35s'.

Just my $.02

The standard 1:16 twist did not stabilize the 280 gr. in my old Remington 35 Whelen. I sold it and bought my Dakota Classic Deluxe Whelen with 1:12 twist and a Ruger Hawkeye SS/syn, also with the 1:12 twist, and they both stabilize the 280 gr. perfectly.

If the Swift bullet is available, I'll be trying it out and I thought that I found some - no. So far with my 600 350 Magnum. I've mostly used 250 grain bullets - Speer, Nosler partition and Hornady Interlock, which all work very well. For some reason, I've been able to easily get good groups with the 250 grain bullets and not so much with lighter bullets in my 600 350 - in fact groups went from less than 1 MOA with the 250's to often about 4+ MOA with lighter bullets that I've tested - though admittedly I have not done much testing with light bullets in the 600. One of my rifles chambered in 350 is an almost new Classic 700, the other is that 600 - which has an after market barrel. Now I have a 35 Whelen (also in an after market barrel). Hopefully it will be a bit of testing this summer for the 35's and with different twist barrels. I may throw in some tests with my 358 Win also with an after market barrel.

I think that Remington chose the slow twist in their rifles (244 and 35 Whelen come to mind) because of the belief that slow twist shoot better than fast twist, which I am convinced was true once upon a time. Perhaps another reason was that there were not many, if any, long bullets available in those calibers in those days. There was a lot of people that felt if you want to kill bigger bad animals use a bigger gun. Using premium bullets has changed a lot since then. But there still are a few old farts that still feel "get a bigger" gun is the proper way to go -- I know at least one .

I probably should get a 6.3x62 or 6.3x74R and do the comparisons that my curiosity requires. I've avoided buying a 6.3 since then I'd have to be buying more molds and the inventory of bullets would have to be increased. Sadly my testing would be at a range, rather than on game much bigger than deer or perhaps elk, which ironically, many people are using "pop guns" on these game animals, albeit more successfully than I would have believed possible a few years ago.

I am wondering if anyone has completed an in-depth comparison 6.3 vs a fast twist 35 with the best bullets available for larger tougher game and also with penetration boxes, gel, wet/dry news paper etc..

I seriously doubt there would be any difference at all in the effects on game animals between the 2 if bullets of like weight and construction were used.
I do not own a 35 Whelen but I have made a lot of them and they are well liked by the men that got them. Typically I have used 1-14 twist barrels for the 35 Whelens. To the best of my knowledge all those that own them have used bullets up to 250 grains but nothing heavier.

I also have made a bunch of 9.3X62s in the last few years, and there was a huge rush of orders starting about 5 years ago which I found odd because 7 years ago most folks around here had never heard of it.
The barrels I have used for the 9.3MMs have been 1-12 twist.
I own four 9.3MM rifles and have come to really like and admire how well they work. I have two 9.3X57s, one I made on a Mauser M98 with a 1-12 twist, one is an original Husky M46 with a 1-14" twist. The M46 has it's original iron sight and my 98 has a scope. Both shoot well, but I can't tell how well the Husky shoots because I can't shoot super tight groups with irons anymore. (old eyes) But I have killed deer and antelope with them both. My 98 is zeroed with Nosler AccuBond 250 grain bullets and the Husky is zeroed with PPU 285 grain bullets
I have a Ruger #1 in 9.3X74R and it's twisted 1-10. It's SUPER accurate with Nosler Partition 296 grain, Speer 270 grain and Hornady 286 grain bullets and hold all of them under MOA. The Speer 270 grains bullet shoot under half MOA!
And I have a 98 Mauser I made with a 1-12" twist and it shoots close to MOA with my hunting ammo. It has a 1-6 power scope on it and my average groups is giving me 3 shots at 100 yards of about 1-1/16" using Hornady 286 grain bullets and just under an inch (15/16") with Speer 270 grain bullets.

I don't think the rate of twist is as important as many other factors for accuracy. Twist needs to stabilize the bullets, but once they are stable arguing over an exact rate of twist is largely worthless. My Ruger is the most accurate of my four 9.3MM rifles, but I don't think it's because it's twisted faster. I made a 9.3X62 on a Mauser for my friend Wes, with a 1-12" ER Shaw blank and his rifle shoots as well as my Ruger using Barnes TXS bullets. 2 of my rifles have the same barrels in them (all ordered and arrived at my shop in the same shipment) yet Wes's rifle shoots his loads about 1/2" tighter then my rifles shoot my loads. Maybe I could get the same degree of accuracy with the Barnes TSX bullets but most of my experience with those types of bullets show me a lack of expansion at impacts below 2000 FPS so I wanted to stick with lead cored bullets instead of solid copper. With Muzzle velocities of about 2375 to 2400, you drop around the 2000 FPS mark at 200 yards. With my Horandys 286 grains I have made kills at close to 300 and with the Speers I have made kills on antelope past 400 and they expanded fine, (The Speers expand and break up at closer ranges too often for my liking, even on deer and antelope) so I have not bought any Barnes bullets for my guns. But in all honesty, Wes has killed 2 antelope and about 5 deer and 6 elk with his 9.3X62 using Barnes bullets, and so far having a range of "only" 200 yards has not been a problem for him. He's a good hunter.

I have killed some game with my 9.3X62 and I have seen some kills (not killed by me) with the 9.3X62s at ranges from 175 to about 450 using various bullet on antelope, elk and deer and overall the 9.3X62 is vary impressive.
I have personally seen fewer kills with 35 Whelens, (4 I can remember) but common sense says the difference would be non-existent if the same type and close to the same weights of bullets were used. .008" larger diameter is not going to be noticed by any animal.

PPU - loads for 9.3x62mm, at ~ $22/20 box, providing good quality, reloadable brass.

And the cartridge is more accepted and available in the big game fields around the world.


Other than that...?

... not much.


Although, the .358/280 gr. is a std. A-Frame bullet.

... while the 9.3mm/286 gr. is a "Heavy Rifle" A-Frame bullet, which looks to be designed for a coupla hundred fps lower impact velocities.




GR

I measured the twist rate on my 35's
The rifles with after market barrels: 1 in 14"
The rifles with factory barrels: 1 in 16"

I'll be especially interested in the 700 Classic - for sure.

I'm guessing the Swift 280 grain A-frame maybe the longest available bullet, not sure, I'll verify via. internet. But finding some of those to test may be difficult.

Where I live is nearly the lowest elevation in the state at about 1,100 feet above sea level.

Plugging in the parameters of the Swift bullet in the Berger site at 1,100 feet it's stabile with 1 in 14"
and marginally stabile in 1 in 16" assuming 2300 fps. However, at 5,000+ feet where I'd more likely be using it, it's more stabile.

- https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

Using another site

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

It shows the bullet to be more stabile than Berger, but I may have made a mistake in loading data.

The heaviest Barnes mono bullet may be less stable, I have not run those numbers.

Got some data for that? I thought I was doing good with 225gr at 2700fps!

A 35 Whelen pushing a 225 grain bullet at 2900 fps send a chill up my spine. I guess as I get older, I like drama less and less.
Charlie

There is published data that pushes 220's to 2800 with newer powders


Speer data shows 250 grain @ 2709 FPS with 2000MR powder

They don't list any pressure data.
Charlie

No they don't but do you think they would publish data with unsafe pressures?