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Leica 3200.com's #16076922 05/11/21
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Any users of the Leica 3200.Com ranging bino's? I've been running a pair of 5-6 yr old 10x42 HD-B's and for the most part love them. Have taken 3 elk at 810, 820 and 950, using just the dope from the HD-B's as well as recently competed in an NRL Hunter match where for 2 days, in competition, I had to find targets, range, dope and shoot them....all on the clock. Lots of fun and great exercise for hunting as we had max weight limits on the rifles, max velocities on the bullets as well as minimum power factors to recoil played a part in the whole shebang! Was wondering if moving up to the 3200.com's is worth it and if they would hopefully hold together as well as my HD-B's.

I'm asking here in stead of the optics forum since this is a LR Hunting section.

Thanks,

Alan

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Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16077051 05/11/21
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I’ve only had my 3200’s for a little over a month but using good dope have had no issues getting hits with the Leica ballistics to 700 yds which is as far as I have tried.

Across the board the Leica solutions have never been more then .1 mil off of my old data built via Shooter App

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16077197 05/12/21
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Same with my HD-B's.....sometimes, when comparing the Leica's drop compared to my Shooter app; 1/4 moa....1 click difference. Good to know.

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16084790 05/14/21
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GSSP,

I've been using the 3200.COM for a few months now, and gotta say I'm a little disappointed in them. The optics, ergos, and rangefinder are top notch, but that's not why I bought them. The bluetooth connectivity with the Kestrel 5700 was the big draw for me. I was hoping the Leica's would be a better optics SIG KILO3000BDX with diopter knobs that stayed in place. Unfortunately the 3200.COM/Kestrel 5700 bluetooth integration is buggy (e.g., sometimes switching holdovers to MOA from MIL) and unreliable (e.g., not reconnecting to Kestrel on subsequent targets) and short battery life (probably from the bluetooth pinging all the time). The 3200.COM does pair reliably with your cell phone however.

The menu/control button design is a real pain in the neck. The user's manual is unclear, and even wrong (the button/menu map. page 16 if you're ever interested) in places.

I'd rate the phone app a two stars at best. It's easy enough to build a custom profile and export it to the 3200.COM. On a positive note, from what I can tell it looks like the trajectory (G1 model) numbers line up pretty will the AB solutions (custom) on the Kestrel out to about 700 yards. There is no option in the app for a G7 ballistic model. The app/bino only provides holdovers in MOA or mm, no MILs. BTW the button in the app to send feedback to the developers at Leica doesn't work. Irony? Bad Joke? Poor programming?

I did update the firmware yesterday, and this may help with the spotty bluetooth connectivity issues with the Kestrel. More testing is needed. At this point I'm thinking the 3200.COM will be useful in the field, much more so than the Sigs, but only with the imported ballistic curves from the app out to about 700 yards. I don't think they'll work in an NRL Hunter match paired with a Kestrel where the station times are limited to only 4 minutes.

The 3200.COM measures atmospheric pressure, air temperature and line of sight inclination, but does it include these factors into it's onboard ballistic solution? Be fantastic if it did.

Overall, and for the money I paid for them, I can't say they are a good value. Anyways, hope this helps. And if there are any 24HCF members out there that know more about these binos and how to get around the problems I've seen, and yes some could be user error, I'm all ears.

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16085010 05/14/21
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LJB,

Thank you for your honest opinion. It was about 5-6 yrs back I contacted Hamilton Boykin, Education Manager for Leica Sports Optics. He's was quite accessible, easy to talk to and very helpful; to the point I bought my HD-B's....which have performed flawlessly since the day they arrived. Over the years, when I would have an issue to solve, but couldn't, I'd call or email him and he was always, again, helpful. Well, I called the other day, leaving a message and he returned that call the next day. We talked and I again, bought a pair of the 3200.com. Today, he and I talked and he mentioned something about a "cheat sheet" (my words, since I can't recall what he said) he was sending me. Maybe he'll be able to help you as well. He also mentioned when building a gun/optic in the phone app, to try and keep things all MOA or MIL; not both. Also, to try and keep the zero range distance the same; 100, 200 or 300 yds. Just wondering if your issue could have something to do with that. I can pass along his contact info if you wish.

Thank you,

Alan

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Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16085145 05/14/21
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Alan,

I'd love to speak with Hamilton about the 3200.COM binoculars. Thanks for the offer. I'll PM you so we can take this conversation off line.

LJB

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16092373 05/17/21
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LJB,

If you set your 3200’s to the US setting of the US/EU and the corrections as 10mm then your binos are set up for zero in yds and the corrections will come out as mils and not simply mm’s (of course the difference between clicks and mils is just adding a decimal point)

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16093340 05/17/21
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I have the Kilo's and like them, they have been very accurate so far in my limited three days of use. The BDX Bino/scope for Comps is not ideal as you have to range each target. This is a clock killer! Before my rifle went down in the match this weekend I would range all the targets and note ranges on my arm board. Then dial the first target and add clicks as needed for subsequent targets. After my rifle went down I used a Sig Cross, Kilo 3000, and BDX scope. Found out in the match that the bino's/scope were not set up properly. Then was given another of the same set up that was properly set up and the system worked great. Minus of course the time involved in range every single target. For a hunting set up it would be pretty dam mint. That Sig Cross is pretty dam impressive for a $1500.00ish rifle. Bolt and barrel can be changed out so you can have multiple caliber set ups. It is light and very adjustable. Accuracy was very good once I had the set up that was paired and dialed in properly. I think I am going to buy a Cross and BDX for shooting coyotes. One guy can range the other can shoot. Would be a really fast system in a two man set up.


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16093345 05/17/21
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Originally Posted by GSSP
LJB,

Thank you for your honest opinion. It was about 5-6 yrs back I contacted Hamilton Boykin, Education Manager for Leica Sports Optics. He's was quite accessible, easy to talk to and very helpful; to the point I bought my HD-B's....which have performed flawlessly since the day they arrived. Over the years, when I would have an issue to solve, but couldn't, I'd call or email him and he was always, again, helpful. Well, I called the other day, leaving a message and he returned that call the next day. We talked and I again, bought a pair of the 3200.com. Today, he and I talked and he mentioned something about a "cheat sheet" (my words, since I can't recall what he said) he was sending me. Maybe he'll be able to help you as well. He also mentioned when building a gun/optic in the phone app, to try and keep things all MOA or MIL; not both. Also, to try and keep the zero range distance the same; 100, 200 or 300 yds. Just wondering if your issue could have something to do with that. I can pass along his contact info if you wish.

Thank you,

Alan


Hamilton Boykin is a very knowledgeable and helpful gentleman. He is an excellent resource for Leica, and I would strongly recommend reaching out to him if you have any Leica questions or concerns.


"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: RickBin] #16093948 05/18/21
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Originally Posted by RickBin
Originally Posted by GSSP
LJB,

Thank you for your honest opinion. It was about 5-6 yrs back I contacted Hamilton Boykin, Education Manager for Leica Sports Optics. He's was quite accessible, easy to talk to and very helpful; to the point I bought my HD-B's....which have performed flawlessly since the day they arrived. Over the years, when I would have an issue to solve, but couldn't, I'd call or email him and he was always, again, helpful. Well, I called the other day, leaving a message and he returned that call the next day. We talked and I again, bought a pair of the 3200.com. Today, he and I talked and he mentioned something about a "cheat sheet" (my words, since I can't recall what he said) he was sending me. Maybe he'll be able to help you as well. He also mentioned when building a gun/optic in the phone app, to try and keep things all MOA or MIL; not both. Also, to try and keep the zero range distance the same; 100, 200 or 300 yds. Just wondering if your issue could have something to do with that. I can pass along his contact info if you wish.

Thank you,

Alan


Hamilton Boykin is a very knowledgeable and helpful gentleman. He is an excellent resource for Leica, and I would strongly recommend reaching out to him if you have any Leica questions or concerns.


I think I may have spoken to Hamilton at SCI and DSC in the past. If he's the same guy I'm thinking of, yes he is very knowledgeable and helpful. With GSSP's suggestion to contact Hamilton, I took the time to write down a few of my observations/opinions on the 3200.COM. I'll share them below for 3200.COM owners/users as a PSA and for entertaining the general 24HCF crowd. I know, I promised to take this offline, but who knows someone out there might find my ramblings beneficial. Read on if your interested...


Stream Of Consciousness Thoughts on the Leica 3200.COM Binocular

Leica 3200.COM

Question: Does the unit include the atmospheric correcions when calculating the ballistics solutions from a user supplied custom curve?

According to Panhandle Precision video, and the user’s manual it does when the Equivalent Horizontal Range (EHR) option is selected, but not when “click” mode is selected. Haven’t tested this yet myself, but that’s likely how the bino’s are set up. Having a bino that can measure and correct for changes is atmospherics is a huge asset. In fact this was another huge selling point for me. For example, one day you’re hunting at the base of the mountain and the next day you’re 4000’ higher at the top. Having the bino measure and correct for this on the fly is super nice. Correcting for atmospherics (using Density Altitude I presume) in the EHR mode is good, but would be much more useful in the “click” mode because that’s how most hunters will use it (a presumption on my part of course). For example, in the field, the shooter ranges the target and calculates ballistic solution based on EHR, then estimates windage corrections based on line-of-sight distance rather than the equivalent EHR/DA corrected distance. IMO, the unit in AbC mode should display LOS distance and actual (that is corrected for DA) ballistic solution in either MOA or MILs (BTW this is what the Kestrel 5700 calculates and displays).

Needs a G7 drag model option for longer distance shooting solutions. However, with that said, the Leica calculated G1 ballistic curves that I’ve used are very similar to the Applied Ballistics CUSTOM curves generated by the Kestrel 5700. Certainly very usable for a hunting application from 0 - 700 yards.

Manual should instruct user to input standard ICAO atmosphere sea level pressure and temp for custom ballistic curves IF integrated atmospheric sensor measurements are used. Wait, why do that? Standard ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) sea level conditions are the same world wide, aren’t they? So why need to input them? I would think that if the bino corrected for measured atmospherics it would just use a sea level baseline reference in the software and go from there to be accurate.

It would be nice for the unit to display a reference windage correction with the ballistics holdover solution for reference purposes only. From what I can tell, Swaro and Zeiss don’t display windage corrections either. I imagine the German/Austrian development teams conclude the bino doesn’t measure wind speed, so why presume one and display it - that would be wrong. However a presumed wind correction is very useful for shooters so they don’t have to start from scratch. For example if your shooting a 7 mph gun (0.5 MIL perpendicular wind deflection at 500 yards) enter 7 mph into the bino and have baseline windage corrections displayed for any range and the shooter can then take if from there if the shooter hasn’t memorized, or forgotten the range/wind relationship. IMAmericanO displaying a presumed wind solution would give the Leica a slight, but real competitive advantage over the competition.

Overall, the user’s manual is hard to understand and full of errors. The menu map on page 16 is a good example.

Question: Once you go through the menus and select a configuration, it appears that if you need to change any one thing you have to go back all the way through the set up. Is this a correct description? For example, there doesn’t appear to be an easy/direct way to turn bluetooth on/off without going through the entire set up procedure. Kinda a PITN. Will look more into this when I have more time/motivation.

The unit should display holdovers in MILs as well as mm clicks. MILs and mm clicks are NOT the same. I know it’s super easy to just add a decimal to convert to MILs, but on the other hand, it’s lazy/sloppy engineering to mix MOA (angle) with mm/100m (length) in the same display mode. That’s a little harsh, the apps does label each option “Clicks”, which is technically correct. My frustration is getting the better of me.

When a custom profile is entered and being used, the bino does NOT display this mode of operation anywhere. The user must remember what profile is in the bino.

As I’ve mentioned before, the Kestrel 5700/3200.COM paring is buggy, but I haven’t taken the time to detail the issues. In general, the bluetooth connection seems slow and spotty and a power suck. I doubt it would be useful in the field - too much overhead. However it would be useful at the range. This is a disappointment for me because this feature was the main reason to purchase the 3200.COM. Ironically, the range finder and on board ballistic profiles are plenty accurate for field use and wicked fast. I wasn’t expecting that.


iPhone Application Observations:

Can’t get the Select Profile: Kestrel mode to work. Select "Activate Kestrel Mode" button and pop up just says, “Kestrel mode not activated”, “Kestrel mode could not be activated, please try again”, “OK”
Question: select Kestrel right arrow and Kestrel pop up displays Kestrel Instruments instructions to set Rangemaster to “Lat” (latitude) in the menu. Doing so allows connection between the bino and the Kestrel, not the app. Will the app connect to the Kestrel? I think not.

Ballistic table is good. Better if displayed trajectory correctin in MILs/MOA with windage as well. Should also display profile name at the top the table.

Looks like atmospheric corrections (i.e., density altitude - DA) is used in the EHR mode. However the EHR mode and MOA/mm Click mode are mutually exclusive. Does this mean the DA is NOT used when the MOA/Click mode is selected? If true, then this is incorrect IMAO as stated above. Shooters/Hunters need to have DA corrected atmospherics for proper MOA/Click adjustments


It seems to me the vast majority of these issues can be “fixed” with firmware/software upgrades with about 160 person-hours of engineering/test/qual effort. The hard part is convincing “Wetzlar, we have a problem”.

That’s all for now.

IC-B

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16093991 05/18/21
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Just an observation without actually using them.....it seems the Fury HD kicks Leica's asss in every way except optical performance. Is that a true statement or am I missing something?


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: JGRaider] #16094506 05/18/21
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Just an observation without actually using them.....it seems the Fury HD kicks Leica's asss in every way except optical performance. Is that a true statement or am I missing something?


I have no first hand experiance but not from what I have heard.


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Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: MontanaCreekHunter] #16094555 05/18/21
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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by JGRaider
Just an observation without actually using them.....it seems the Fury HD kicks Leica's asss in every way except optical performance. Is that a true statement or am I missing something?


I have no first hand experiance but not from what I have heard.


How so? I'm here to learn something.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: JGRaider] #16095730 05/18/21
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by JGRaider
Just an observation without actually using them.....it seems the Fury HD kicks Leica's asss in every way except optical performance. Is that a true statement or am I missing something?


I have no first hand experiance but not from what I have heard.


How so? I'm here to learn something.


Like I said I do not personally have experience with either of them. From what I heard the 3200.com's are faster. The thing I heard was the only advantage the Fury has is the AB Elite. I also heard the AB Elite will be onboard more to come in the very near future.


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16096092 05/19/21
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The HD-B's have an onboard thermometer, barometer and inclinometer. All three are used as part of the onboard ballistic app or I can pull the data off of it for use in my Shooter app. I"m sure the 3200's have the same thing.

Alan

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16097062 05/19/21
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I'd never use any ballistic data, no matter the brand, that I couldn't enter into the RF via an app or such that has been field tested/verified by the data I put into it. I'd never trust an onboard ballistic profile pre programmed into it even as a rough guideline. That would be worthless to me, IMO.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: JGRaider] #16097937 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'd never use any ballistic data, no matter the brand, that I couldn't enter into the RF via an app or such that has been field tested/verified by the data I put into it. I'd never trust an onboard ballistic profile pre programmed into it even as a rough guideline. That would be worthless to me, IMO.


It is programed through an app on your phone.


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: JGRaider] #16098680 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
I'd never use any ballistic data, no matter the brand, that I couldn't enter into the RF via an app or such that has been field tested/verified by the data I put into it. I'd never trust an onboard ballistic profile pre programmed into it even as a rough guideline. That would be worthless to me, IMO.


I understand. The HD-B's are programed (all ballistic data to include weather, baro, temp, etc at time of zeroing the rifle) via you laptop/desktop, then saved to a micro-SD card and inserted into the battery compartment. the 3200.com's.....all the same data is input into the Leica app on your smartphone and then bluetoothed to the bino's. I've compared the drop with my Shooter app and have always been able to get within 1/4 moa click if not exactly spot on! They shamelessly work!!!!

Alan

Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16100129 05/20/21
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Thanks, and I get it. The problem for me is, is the Geovid worth the extra $1500 over the Fury, when they both do the same thing, except for the optical edge to Leica?


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Leica 3200.com's [Re: GSSP] #16102324 05/21/21
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FYI.......Another thing I learned is that unless you pair your Geovid 3200 to a Kestrel, ballistic readouts/holds are limited to only 800 yds via the app. The Sig 3000 does the same thing, the Fury gives AB info as far as you can range.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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