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Re: Failed bullets [Re: HitnRun] #16095976 05/18/21
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bsa1917hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by MS9x56
What calibers and bullets have you hit elk but never recovered them? Be honest now. What do you attribute the failure to?


Since when is not recovering a bullet a failure?


Read again...


Ed, in the English language, the reference to them applies to the first noun in the sentence, hence the reference to bullets and calibers. He needs to make the question more clear.


Exactly. It reads, what calibers and bullets have you not recovered. My answer: 200gr Nosler partition 30 cal. They were damn sure not failures though...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
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Re: Failed bullets [Re: MAC] #16095977 05/18/21
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bsa1917hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by MAC
I would be willing to bet that 99.9999% of elk that are lost after being shot with hunting bullets are lost due to either poor shot placement or poor tracking skills. Today's bullets are very effective and if placed in the vitals will kill any elk that ever lived.


"Effective" bullets have been made since the 1940's. One just have to have enough sense to use the right ones and put them in the right spot..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.

Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
P


BSA
Re: Failed bullets [Re: Pharmseller] #16095992 05/18/21
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mathman Online Content
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Originally Posted by Pharmseller
14-0

Only bull that made it out of sight was hard quartering to me, showing his left side. The 180 grain Partition hit him pretty far back in his left lung ...


How did that come about? At my deer camp I've seen the "shoot them right behind the leg" idea ingrained so strongly that in the heat of the moment the idea of what is the best line through the vitals went right out the window.


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Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16096232 05/19/21
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Earlyagain Offline
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Does out of stock, no back order count as a failure?
:-)

Re: Failed bullets [Re: bsa1917hunter] #16096277 05/19/21
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SLM Offline
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You’re on the wrong thread, paper and cardboard is hardly a tough test media...Just sayin’.

Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by HitnRun
Originally Posted by MS9x56
What calibers and bullets have you hit elk but never recovered them? Be honest now. What do you attribute the failure to?


Since when is not recovering a bullet a failure?


Read again...


Ed, in the English language, the reference to them applies to the first noun in the sentence, hence the reference to bullets and calibers. He needs to make the question more clear.


Exactly. It reads, what calibers and bullets have you not recovered. My answer: 200gr Nosler partition 30 cal. They were damn sure not failures though...

IC-A

Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16096736 05/19/21
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Discuss:

GO!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Re: Failed bullets [Re: WAM] #16096842 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by WAM
Only failure to recover the bull was with a .35 Whelen 225 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw at about 240 yards. Tracked sparse blood for over a mile and lost the track. It was obviously poor shot placement as every other critter I shot with that load only went a few steps, if any. I have never recovered a Barnes TSX or TTSX bullet, but all the critters went down immediately. Happy Trails


That bullet is a devastating penetrator.

Re: Failed bullets [Re: T_Inman] #16096862 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by T_Inman
Discuss:

GO!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


If that was designed as an expanding bullet and it hit the animal within its design velocity window, I'd call that a failure. The bullet failed to open as designed. A lot of potential what-ifs though.

The crowd that shrieks "if it killed the animal, it's not a failure" will probably take issue with the comment, but that's the way I see it. If a bullet fails to open or to penetrate as designed, that will always be a failure in my mind.

Re: Failed bullets [Re: T_Inman] #16096912 05/19/21
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SLM Offline
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That’s a fail like ‘slaves selfie.

Originally Posted by T_Inman
Discuss:

GO!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16097021 05/19/21
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A portion of the bullet in the pic may be missing. Without forensic wound analysis, and knowledge of the hit animals reaction and ultimate result. Success or failure remains undeterminable.

IC-B

Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16097056 05/19/21
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I'm betting the hollow point was clogged up, hence the failure to expand. A bullet may still kill, but fail to perform like the manufacturer designed it to perform, which I'd call a failure to perform. The only Barnes I'd personally hunt with is the TTSX.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16097294 05/19/21
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It is a .224" 62 grain TSX, and (I assume) didn't have a clogged tip since it started to open like normal but like SLM, didn't finish. .233 Rem at normal velocity and 60-70 yard shoulder impact on a mule deer nearly the size of a small elk. Luckily he stopped just long enough for for me to put another round in him.

I fully agree that just because a bullet kills, doesn't mean it didn't fail. This one may have hit bone and tumbled, causing expansion to stop. I am unsure and will never know, I guess.



Re: Failed bullets [Re: Earlyagain] #16097308 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by Earlyagain
A portion of the bullet in the pic may be missing. Without forensic wound analysis, and knowledge of the hit animals reaction and ultimate result. Success or failure remains undeterminable.


Bullet is all there. All 62 grains of it. Critter flinched at the shot but didn't act like normal shoulder shot deer/elk do.

He got the gutless treatment, and was in griz country so I didn't spend a lot of time looking at the wound.



Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16097313 05/19/21
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It's all guessing, by both you and myself, but once again I'd bet on clogged tip. VLD's will do the same thing, at least on some of the hogs we shot with them did when the hollow point was clogged/closed up.

No offense, but if I were after big mule deer it wouldn't be with a .224 anything. I've been after 'em since 1971, killed 47 of them, never a thought of that caliber.

Last edited by JGRaider; 05/19/21.

It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16097636 05/19/21
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This is actually interesting.

I've had hp bullets fired from 38spl and 45acp handguns into dry phonebooks have similar appearance. Bent shank, mushed nose instead of a mushroom. Insufficient velocity in that case. Bullet design could cause the same result.

It sounds like the big mule deer may have been quite a large job for that bullet/cartridge. Because of the ubiquitous flow of information. Its becoming a well known thing that .224 bullets of good quality can have remarkable performance on large game. Still a good situation for careful scrutiny.

Re: Failed bullets [Re: mathman] #16097696 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
14-0

Only bull that made it out of sight was hard quartering to me, showing his left side. The 180 grain Partition hit him pretty far back in his left lung ...


How did that come about? At my deer camp I've seen the "shoot them right behind the leg" idea ingrained so strongly that in the heat of the moment the idea of what is the best line through the vitals went right out the window.



When I first saw him he was bedded behind a big snag, an old Doug fir busted off about 10’ up. All I could see was his ass, the rest was obstructed by the snag. I could tell he was a bull by his yellow hide. He must have felt my eyes on him because he got up and peeked at me from behind the tree. I saw the left side of his antlers and his left side, almost head on. My only option was a raking shot to take out as much of his left lung as I could.

Mt. Washington Wilderness, Oregon. The pack out was a bitch. Oh, and he was a nice 5x5.


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Re: Failed bullets [Re: MS9x56] #16098271 05/19/21
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44 years elk hunting. 338 win mag 250 grain nosler partition. 0 failure.

Re: Failed bullets [Re: JGRaider] #16098575 05/19/21
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Originally Posted by JGRaider
It's all guessing, by both you and myself, but once again I'd bet on clogged tip. VLD's will do the same thing, at least on some of the hogs we shot with them did when the hollow point was clogged/closed up.

No offense, but if I were after big mule deer it wouldn't be with a .224 anything. I've been after 'em since 1971, killed 47 of them, never a thought of that caliber.



None taken, at all. I have complete confidence in it, but maybe more in the rifle rather than the round.
This bullet pictured was an anomaly, and could have been caused by about anything. I have no clue.

The second shot put in nearly the same place made him instantly collapse, just like a head shot.



Re: Failed bullets [Re: T_Inman] #16099431 05/20/21
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That bullet didn't open and then tumbled because of it's resultant shape. Not opening put it's center of gravity too far back and then just like the normal FMJ would have done, tumbled. If the bullet would have opened, it would have been weight forward and stayed on course with "normal" performance. Why it did not open; I can't say.
Your 223 no doubt stabilized that bullet just fine in the Air but once it hits meat other forces and actions are required to stabilize it. Short version is: Must open up and create weight forward profile.

Re: Failed bullets [Re: saskfox] #16105127 05/22/21
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Originally Posted by saskfox
44 years elk hunting. 338 win mag 250 grain nosler partition. 0 failure.


^^^^^^^^^^^Hell of a testament right here^^^^^^^^^^^

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