Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Residential School Statistics

- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Firstly, the two levels of Government, Provincial/Federal, and media have been preparing for a full on information campaign aimed at Canadians, in particular citizens of BC, it is now on. Everybody will find out all about it shortly, sadly, many will get screwed, including Native people....I know I am right.

On the residential schools, those are not "Christians".
Lets be careful not to be led by our hearts before we make a judgement on the information provided, because.....we dont know the condition of the children who died, perhaps they had health issue's before they were in the schools. Perhaps they had no families to return the bodies too, or maybe nobody cared about them. Lets also remember, not all people in authority were murdering pedophiles, and some of them loved the children.

Sadly, my family (Metis) were two generations in residential schools here in Canada, my mother, and her mother's generation, all of them.
I can safely say the institution destroyed them and the next generations (mine) have had to deal with some of the "stuff" that comes with it, like others, I keep that to myself and frankly have only the last few days revealed some of the stories to my sons.
I am not "wimpy" but find myself weeping openly, like now. What really gets me going is I see people who were once great
reduced to what can best be described as...broken.

I don't think it right to hold Canadians responsible, nor do I think their "right's and privileges" be infringed, but I am afraid that is what Canada will do next, book it.

Then I think there is a lesson here that go's over everyone's head.....we need to know and prevent this from happening to any people of any race on our soil again. We need to move on now, we need to forgive, but not forget.

I know that if Canada tries it again on any race of people, then I and others will fix bayonet's.

It is a national shame and I’m sure Trudeau will apologize for it, throw money at it and do nothing else, just like he’s always done (and many PM’s before him - he’s just the latest, greatest national shame, though he seems to actually excel at it).

What needs to be done is for Canada to fully integrate FN into Canadian society. No more $billions sent to reserves with no accountability. No more cronyism among the chiefs and their families/hangers on. No more excuses for the rampant drug/alcohol/sexual abuse on reserves.

“Here is $X per FN citizen, which will be used to either establish yourself in a proper home/community and get whatever treatment/education you require. That $X is it, all you get. When that is gone, you fall into the same safety net/health care/work/live/taxation/existence every other Canadian citizen has to deal with.”

We’re done enabling you to perpetuate problems that should have been fixed 50-100 years ago.

673;
Good morning to you my friend, I trust that other than this sobering topic we're discussing that you're reasonably well and your finger is getting better.

As you know about me, I have no FN ancestry that I'm aware of, I shall attempt to articulate this as carefully as possible.

I'll begin by saying that my thoughts and prayers are with all the folks attempting to deal with this, both FN and non FN as it's going to be a heart wrenching experience in all probability.

I have immediate family who lived in FN communities in 3 provinces during their careers - which were school teacher and RN. The RN portion meant she was the only medical practitioner in town most times. The doctor had to fly in and since it was always in the north, weather sometimes prevented that. The time span they were involved would have been about 1970 to 1990 more or less.

All that to say they went so far as to learn enough Chippewa dialect to converse a tad and lived in Dene, Cree and Tahltan FN communities.

Some of the FN communities were "dry" and some not.

When we visited the different FN communities - sometimes for extended periods of time, ie: an entire summer in Black Lake, SK, I got to know a few of the FN folks and saw them interact with my family enough to understand they had a mutual respect for each other.

That's all to say then 673, that the opinions of those family members on some of the social and community issues taking place carry more weight with me than for instance someone who was not ever there, you know? Since you've got direct involvement through family, you definitely are someone I'll choose to listen carefully to on the matter for sure.

A few years back I worked with a chap who passed way too young, but who's wife was FN and adopted into a non FN family during the infamous 60's Scoop. She told me that she felt her adopted parents had saved her life - full stop.

None of this defends taking children away from their communities ever 673, but you and I both understand how incredibly broken some of the communities were at that time.

I can still vividly see this as I type..... I was shocked to my very core....

It's Boxing Day 1977 at Cumberland House, SK. For reasons that I can't entirely recall, I wanted to get out of the house and away from family, so I gassed up my Arctic Cat 340 Jag and began to explore the community.

At that time, there was a Metis community and a FN Cree Federal Reserve beside it. When I sledded onto the Federal Reserve it was akin to crossing into a war zone - it was day and night - I cannot describe it differently.

It's -38° as I pass a house that has all manner of broken vehicles and stuff out front. The front window of what we'd call the living room is broken out and there's a baby standing in a diaper crying. It's -38°!!!

I'm 15, I don't know what to do.... I still don't know if I did the right thing, but I turned the sled around, went home and told my family. I want to say they called the RCMP, but that's lost on me now.

I still choke up when I type that.. That didn't happen in "my" Canada, you know?

So then what does that have to do with bodies near a former residential school? That's a valid question for sure.

My thoughts are only that first we need to determine who the people were and return them to their families with as much dignity as possible.

We need to attempt to ascertain the cause of death if that's possible.

That school in Kamloops was open from 1890 to 1969 I believe it was, so it would have been running during the time of the Spanish Influenza - but I have no clue as to how badly it affected Kamloops. I read that some communities in Canada had death rates of 1 in 6, but it might well have been much less in Kamloops.

I agree with your statement that we need to determine how those circumstances came to happen and then all sides need to take steps to ensure it's never, ever repeated.

Lastly 673, I am truly sorry that the FN residential school had a personal effect on you and your family sir, that I can say without question.

All the best.

Dwayne

Should any of us be surprised by your genuine hatred and racism?

How do explain the presence of 3 year old children at a residential school?

I doubt very much that they were brought there.

Most likely they were the product of 'hands-on" sex education by priests who could not keep their "catechism" in their pants.

History has shown us that any time governments turn over anything to religious groups to administer, it ends up in complete disaster.

You bring up the topic at hand...then it go's right over you're head.

I have seen enough bullschitt, to all native people on both sides of the border, please feel free to shoot me a pm.

Great post.

While the exact methodology needs some serious thought and planning so that the transition is as smooth and successful as possible, I agree with this sentiment.

I see absolutely no hatred or racism in his post. Questioning a bold claim, and requesting evidence, is what any rational, logical citizen would do.

Complete conjecture. Your bigotry and prejudice against religious groups is really showing in this thread.

You would not see any racism or hatred in anything that involves abuse against minorities I am sure.

And the statistics are fact, not "bold claims".

Your opinion that I am bigoted and prejudiced against religious groups is complete conjecture and nonsense. It is merely your very biased and unsubstantiated opinion.

If you disagree with me then prove me wrong.

What is very apparent is how little you care about the needless deaths of innocent children.

But then they were not lily white like you, were they?

I would humbly suggest that rather than be distracted and deflected by the "noise" of all of the angry and bigoted replies to the original post, that you actually read the original post again, and then think about it.

The statistics are not opinions, or conjecture. They are what is known.

Those who wish to deny them remind me of holocaust deniers.

Simply angry and hate-filled racists with an agenda who wish to distract you and replace the truth with their own narrative.

His post contained no abuse against anyone, but rather it contained a few simple questions about the situation.

The whole concept flies over your head. Clearly nobody is questioning the numbers. The questions are related to these children being found by certain parties, where they were found, the insinuation of the parties responsible for the deaths, and the implication regarding the cause of death.

Here you go...





Now for this:



Talk about unsubstantiated. Don't let your feelings and emotions get in the way of the truth. It's always the sign of a weak mind losing a debate when the person jumps to ad hominem attacks that are baseless and without evidential backing.

I probably care more about FN people than you could imagine, after having helped raise several FN children in a foster home setting.

The first problem is the deaths and the second is that nobody even cared enough to document the deaths. They seem to have just been swept under the rug.
The problem when government and church collude is that you have the two most powerful groups together and there's really no way to fight them. Normally, you could pit one against the other. The same thing happened in Ireland.

It has always seemed to me to be a good concept which was poorly implemented. Attempts were made to educate the FN people from , I believe, remote communities. Even today we are pouring tons of money in to remote areas where the people have little ability to make a living. Under these circumstances when is anything likely to change?

Jim

This is about the deaths of children in residential skills, and not about distractions, deflections, and shooting the messenger.

That message is getting lost and the thread is getting derailed in pointless "he said, she said" accusations.

If these people really cared about the needless and cruel conditions that led to the deaths of these children, you would think that they would say so.

But they don't.

Like I said, I encourage the reader to go back and read my original post and think about it.

Do not allow yourself to be distracted and deflected by this "noise".

saddlegun;
Afternoon sir, I hope the day's as warm and bright where you're at as it is here.

If the intent of your post and subsequent replies was not to use inflammatory and divisive language, then in my former professional opinion you missed the mark sir.

If however, you intended to use personal attacks on folks you know next to nothing about, then you hit it squarely.

My fellow Canuck friends here are reasonably known quantities. In this thread alone we've received the bona fides of Jordan and 673 regarding their background on the very subject at hand.

In a former life much of my job task was communicating effectively to various government, enforcement and medical agencies, so that real world experience has shown me that words matter and shouldn't be used lightly or flippantly.

While you've asked us not to assassinate the messenger, meaning you, I'd suggest that perhaps if you were less accusatory with your statements, folks wouldn't be drawing and aiming at you quite as often.

Anyways, these are just a few thoughts on the matter and nothing more.

I am curious though as to your chosen moniker as to whether you're a horseman or were? If so, in Alberta or elsewhere?

Folks who know me - including quite a few here like Jordan and 673 to name them once more, know that I spent more than a quarter century on a branding crew, used to chase cows in the mountains on weekends for the same rancher and as well we had our own horses for 15 years using them for hunting, cattle work and mountain riding.

This is me about 15 years back - more or less by the lack of a grey beard - but anyways I used a few different saddle guns myself back when.



As with all things in life, the thoughts I present are only worth what time they take to read and nothing more.

Best.

Dwayne

I am just going to keep saying this to the reader.

Do not allow yourself to be sidetracked and for this thread to be derailed with "noise".

Too many of these responses are about "he said, she said" (myself included) rather than about residential schools and the children who died there.

And nobody seems to care.

Go back and read the original post and think about it.

That is the message.

215 children died in 79 years, about 3 a year, not a high number considering the illnesses of the times and the lack of modern medical intervention we have today. What was the capacity of the school in numbers of kids over the years. I know in one year that I went to school 5 students out of just over 100 students died in our small town, no it wasn't a residential school it was a regular elementary school about 1970. Student population at Kamloops residential school peaked in the 1950's at about 500 students per year.

They say there are no records, there may have been records, were they lost, destroyed, who knows, how many institutions have records intact from the period of 52 years ago to 132 years ago.

They say none of the families were notified, how do we know that. They very well could have been notified and had memorial services etc. We'll never know. Back then it wasn't uncommon for people of any race to have family members who died away from home buried where they died, the logistics of transporting bodies was more complicated back in those times especially to remote native communities in those days..

Damn, that's almost Third World stats.

It is interesting that rather than be appalled at the statistics that I presented in my OP post, that so many here simply want to dismiss it as being nothing.

Why is that?

Are these people that do not reflect the opinion of average Canadians?
Are they white supremacists?
Or are they just home-grown Alberta racists?

I would again suggest that the reader go back and read my OP post and read about how many deaths that there actually were.

That is the message. Not their propaganda.

Yes, an anomaly, 3 from childhood cancers, 1 pneumonia, can't remember the cause of the other. They most likely all would have survived today.

The Vancouver Archbishop has now accepted responsibility on behalf of the Roman Catholic church for the Kamloops Residential School deaths, and has acknowledged that their deaths were indeed the result of mistreatment and abuse.

Perhaps the deniers that want to dismiss and deny the deaths of so many children can now put their propaganda to rest.

Whatever your agenda is, I don't think that any "rational and logical" individual is going to believe your narrative now, no matter how you choose to spin it.

Again, I suggest that the reader read my OP post and decide for yourself.

One hell of a lot of deaths.

How many kids do you remember dying at the schools that you attended when you were growing up?

Damn few that I can recall.

Still trying to grasp the facts here, and the statistics, from that era, and relate to them.

What are the known mortality rates from the 1890s on thru the 40s, in towns and on the land or smaller native communities for kids 5 to 14? Is 215 deaths average, below, or high?

Unmarked graves from 100 years ago is common. Here, in Yellowknife, we're trying to identify many local and their locations from 1940 on as the wooden markers rotted away.

A few years I ago I visited some old family cemeteries and was amazed not to find some graves I knew to be there. Talking to a couple elder locals, they explained that there were more graves than are visible, but the marble headstones had aged and fallen down, and were pushed away. Many of the marble gravestones still remaining had deteriorated to the point that writing was not sufficiently visible to the eye. So today one could say they were unmarked but that is not the truth as they were originally well marked. But time marches on.

I have found more than one grave, including one from Sir John Franklin's expedition. Thru research I have identified a couple, but that is it, and time marches on.

It's known that the Indian agents were usually notified, but how many knew how to contact the family at the time, or who they were, and their location somewhere in the "wilds", away from any settlement? And how could the families possibly collect the remains if notified when they were a great distance away? It was a different time then.

When the Iroquois came north and decimated the Huron. were any graves marked? I have a couple of ancestors from the war of 1812 and earlier that I can find no mention of where their graves are, ..... who do I blame?

Now, before someone calls me a racist, I've spent most of my life in the North and am proud to be friends of both Dene and Inuuit and at times, feel more Native than white southerner!

'nuff said!

It would only be human, if a child died in your care, you wouldn't be too picky about record keeping. There may be more.

Ok ignorant racist and anti christian bigot, I grew up and used to live on a Chippewa Indian reservation in NW WI and have worked on Indian reservations over 16 years. Im a bit more familiar with how things work, rumors, and actual evidence and crimes on reservations. So can you submit any actual evidence and who processed the grave sites and the forensic findings by the First Nation? What forensic equipment did thee First Nation pathologists use to age the and date the remains? Where are all of these remains of children being stored today? Have worked a lot with tribal police and BIA over the years have a bit more experience than a clueless clown like you.

can you provide any evidence that the church killed all of these children? Do you know the average infant mortality rates in the tribes and on reservations a 150 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago and today?

I don't think anybody is denying there were deaths and abuse. Your pushing this as if it were a holocaust to exterminate a race.

As for the Archbishop, he is responding in a manner his press advisors see as the best option for damage control. In other words he is kissing ass. It's not like he just became aware of this, he's known about this debacle for decades. It's quite pathetic.

It was a holocaust with the express purpose to exterminate a race—as publicly admitted to by Duncan Scott in 1925 with the amendments to the Indian Act. The Germans were just so much more efficient.

My thoughts when I first heard this was “ I doubt all these kids were murdered!” But in a way they all were.

Abuse seems to me endemic with all boarding schools—not just Indian ones.

As I said, it’s a damned shame, but we’re also looking at it through a 2021 lens. Shyte, the media puts a spin on something that happened yesterday, much less what happened 20, 50, 100 or more years ago.

I saw on the news that there is a push to rename Ryerson university due to Ryerson’s involvement in the design of the residential school system. One of the people they interviewed was an indigenous woman who was pushing for renaming and removal of his statue. More destruction of history to fit their agenda.

What I found particularly funny is that this woman, being indigenous, is attending university for free. Probably gets all her housing and expenses paid, too.

If she really wanted to protest, she should quit and go to school somewhere that she has to pay her own freight.

[quote=ribka]Ok ignorant racist and anti christian bigot, I grew up and used to live on a Chippewa Indian reservation in NW WI and have worked on Indian reservations over 16 years. Im a bit more familiar with how things work, rumors, and actual evidence and crimes on reservations. So can you submit any actual evidence and who processed the grave sites and the forensic findings by the First Nation? What forensic equipment did thee First Nation pathologists use to age the and date the remains? Where are all of these remains of children being stored today? Have worked a lot with tribal police and BIA over the years have a bit more experience than a clueless clown like you.

The real questions here are:

Why you are trying so hard to create your own narrative of revisionist history?
Why are you not appalled by these deaths?
Why are you more interested in creating propaganda that dismisses the deaths of children in abusive conditions, rather than wanting it acknowledged?

What really is your agenda?

You keep mentioning First Nations Pathologists.
Really. What First Nations Pathologists are these?
Even today, there are probably very few.

And, slinging insults like "worthless clown" simply discredits you even more.

Again, I would urge the reader to go back and read my first post, and also to have a look at my other thread which contains a You-Tube link to a video where the Archbishop of Vancouver acknowledges responsibility by the Catholic Church for the deaths at the Kamloops Residential Indian School.

Curiously, neither this guy, nor the other deniers have responded to that thread at all.

I wonder why?

This is simply your interpretation of the facts.

The facts are that the Archbishop DID accept responsibility for the deaths at The Kamloops Residential Indian School.

And now, you are claiming that the Archbishop is a liar.

How Bizarre.

And I never said that this was there was an attempt to exterminate a race.
I compared the deniers of these deaths to holocaust deniers, who also substitute false narratives for their own agenda.

(quote) (ribka)
can you provide any evidence that the church killed all of these children? Do you know the average infant mortality rates in the tribes and on reservations a 150 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago and today?
(quote)

I never said anywhere that any church, protestant or catholic, murdered these children.

I did say that they died in their care, which is true.

And the death rate in these schools was much higher than anywhere else.

When I went to school 50 years ago, I certainly don;t remember a 20% death rate such as was experienced by The Red Deer Residential Indian School.

Hell, I don't even remember any student deaths at all. If a student died back then, at home or otherwise, it would have been a big deal and the principal would have informed us all about it.

The real question is:

Why are you trying so hard to deny that these deaths were appalling?
Why are you trying so hard to suggest that a 20% death rate among students is perfectly normal?

What is your true agenda?

It's only a few members here, such as yourself, that are doing this.

Slowly more information starts to come out.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canad...ential-school-stalled-by-lack-of-records

I find the fight for the holding of records for over 20 years to be despicable -- why have the Feds and Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate been doing this other than to exert control? The bloated departments that the Feds have in place to work with Indigenous groups need to be disbanded. This departments sole justification for existence is control. Phasing this out would be a first step.

HughW;
Good morning to you sir, I trust the day's looking fine and bright on your side of the big hills.

Thanks for that link, despite the nettlesome information contained in it for sure.

The family members I spoke of earlier had all sorts of stories of the Feds dealing with the FN communities they were living in back in the day and honestly Hugh, not many were positive. They'd do some amazingly tone deaf things - repeatedly too - just in case they weren't entirely wrong the first time.

I suspect you're correct that the departments set up their own little kingdoms and don't want anything to change.

For sure though, it's totally unacceptable that the Oblates and the Feds haven't produced the records for the various FN bands involved.

My only additional comment would be that I wish that didn't surprise me, you know?

Thanks again for the link. I've read a fair bit about the background and work of Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond and while I don't agree with everything she says or wants, she's earned my respect on this issue for sure.

All the best to you all Hugh.

Dwayne

SaddleGun I 'm not that up on my Nordic legends, but their was thing that lived under bridges and attacked everything,. It was called a troll.

Dwayne, wishing you the best for the day. I am just headed out for some retriever training -- water work before the heat hits.

On the residential schools, much like others that have posted I have some direct knowledge. Not many people are aware that the schools also were used for orphans - in particular immigrant children that English was not a first language. I have three (now down to 1 due to age) uncles that were placed in the schools. The last remaining uncle (now in his mid 80's) said the school they were placed in was under Jesuit / Oblate control and conditions in the school they were in were harsh. He is a little bitter that the orphans were not included in the settlement negotiations and are an overlooked piece to the overall residential school mess.

On the personal side when I started my career I travelled into many remote sites undertaking mechanical maintenance for public buildings. A number of the schools listed as residential were on my route in the late 70's plus a number of others that are not listed. I did not see what occurred behind the veil as my tasks were focused on the infrastructure. What I saw for infrastructure was less than satisfactory and I questioned where the money was going. The church does not do anything for free.

I am in the camp of getting all of this in the open to allow all sides to heal. I am not in the through more money at it camp nor am I in camp of taking down old statues. People learn from history and if taken away history repeats. We do not want this to repeat for any group. I most likely in a minority of wanting more self determination and getting rid of the Federal government bloat that caused this and is the root cause to many current problems.

Fat cats want to continue living as fat cats both at the government level and also unfortunately for many bands at a chief level.

All the best for the day

Hugh

Lets back this up abit, the government has known about this for a very long time, why all this now?

So, I says to my wife a couple weeks ago...something is up, wonder what it is? I saw the increased attention on Native issue's etc...Then this bombshell. Last week it was all Covid, then suddenly, its this, does anyone think they just found out about this gravesite last week?

Citizens in BC are about to get screwed, big time, then I suspect it will spread to the rest of Canada. The treaties that are finalized and being finalized are handing over title to each FN band. These governments continue to say...our hands are tied, the Courts have ruled....then its these governments (BC) who sign on to UNDRIP, creating an even larger hole to through Citizens in.
The FN will not allow hunting, that's right, no hunting, just go read it for yourself. The FN own it and that is it. If/when there is access you will be paying for it.

The Federal government (Trudeau) says he was going to sign on to UNDRIP....this is where the rest of the Country gets to anti up to the game, got it now?

Trudeau, with the help of the globalist media will use this to get back in, the timing is all the proof of a conspiracy I need.
The UN via UNDRIP is the head of this snake.

The people in charge, Native elders, government officials.....don't want this issue to end, no, they want it to go on and on, that's why I don't believe in elders, I believe in old people. A true community leader doesn't bring misery to each generation in perpetuity, there is no healing there.

And there are a lot of them here attacking me.

You are quite right in your assessment.

In other words, it's all just a left-wing conspiracy.

There are no dead children.

You are delusional. Seek help.

The timing is a conspiracy, read it again.

This is insightful, and exactly why it’s hard to believe that anything we see in the media is truly the way it seems, anymore. Anyone who thinks posters here are insensitive to dead children is delusional, indeed. If this story is truly factual and presented in good faith, then a unanimously sympathetic response would certainly be appropriate. Of course we all feel sympathy towards the children and their families (especially those of us with personal experience with FN children and families). But as with other hot issues lately (climate change, COVID, BLM, etc.), there seem to be ulterior motives surrounding the FN issue, and certain actors are using it to their advantage, making it difficult to determine what is factual and what is twisted truth to fit a narrative and support a nefarious agenda. Some people swallow media stories and public statements hook, line, and sinker, while others with a more rational mind wonder how much of the story is genuine, and how much is being twisted to support a more devious agenda.

“Conspiracy theorist” has become just another dog whistle in the leftist toolbox, right alongside “racist”, “white supremacist”, “Nazi” and “colonial”. Each gets trotted out as required in order to derail any attempt to question the narrative.

I did a substantial amount of work for FN in BC & Yukon in the 90's . Of necessity this involved INAC ( Indian An Northern Affairs Canada) . It would be very very difficult to imagine a more inefficient, bloated, non responsive department.

I remember thinking that INAC/government caused and amplified problems .

Having said that , these graveyards were no secret . A number of the people I did work with indicated where 'the children had been buried there ' to me , once they knew me a little better. The band office was the former residential school in this one particular case.

The timing of this 'discovery' has to do with politics at some level . So the disrespect continues .

Hugh is correct that 'orphans' were also put in these schools . A child hood friend of my father's , who was born out of wedlock, was placed in one in North Battleford. He was treated much the same , I got to know him quite well 10-15 years ago and carried scars (probably physical over and above mental) to his grave.

I do not have the solution BUT I despise the politicians making a political football out of this . Including Trudeau

Hugh

That statement hits the nail squarely on the head

Regards
Lorne

Great Trudeau now has a distraction for the uneducated masses to cover his party's major screw up and incompetence during the past year of Covid . Just like the BLM joke last year. How many decades has the Canadian govt covered this up?


Bingo. I'll take first hand on the ground experience over an idiot's cut and paste news articles. look at the social justice idiots coming out of the woodwork. The same ones praising the government's criminal negligent response to Covid.

Ribka

A less cynical person than myself would agree with you about the distraction......

It's not the graveyards, rather the numbers in them.

I'm reminded of the mass graves in the Balkans, where there was genocide. The thing is , this is in our backyard. Anytime a Vanouverite drives up to ski resort Sun Peaks, they drive by the stately old brick building. Heck, we would drive by it on our way to the big Kamloops gun show.. It's since moved to larger venue

I am not sure how many folks have read the 94 recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report.

The jaded part of me says it is worth reading and putting $$ signs beside the additional asks and requests for new government departments. The CBC even gets its own section with its own ask for additional money (when this happens I tend to tune out the writers). The black hole is requested to get much larger with no boundaries.

Now on the other side there are legitimate statements for corrections of wrongs -- residential schools, apology from the pope and one set of specific recommendations (71 thru 76) dealing with preservation of residential school records and cemeteries.

It is ironic that specific sections of a commission funded by the Feds related to this discussion are not only ignored by them but also fought against in the court system.

http://trc.ca/assets/pdf/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf

I would add a tidbit --- I happened over time to be at two conferences in the same centers where the TRC were holding meetings / hearings and knew a couple of people that were on the TRC. That group did not spare any taxpayer money on the disbursements or set ups at the centers -- lavish would be a choice word.

Fat cats staying Fat

A conspiracy theory.

And the alt-right trots out dog whistle terms from their toolbox, like communist, rioter, social justice warrior, etc. as derogatory terms to derail any attempt to question their narrative.

The thing is that when someone actually suggests that the discovery of a previously unknown and unmarked burial ground containing the remains of hundreds of children is a government plot, what else can you call it but a nut-bar conspiracy theory?

Any rational person would.

And there ARE very much groups that abound who make no bones about their "white supremacist" or "white nationalist" beliefs or their "neo-nazi" affiliation.

Nobody needs to call them that. They do it themselves, and in so doing, admit that they are "racist".

So, I guess that these are dog whistle terms from their own toolbox.

It is very interesting, don't you think, that this select small group of commenters cares absolutely nothing about the abuses perpetrated on these children, or about their horrendous death rates while incarcerated at these residential schools.

What it really seems to boil down to with them is that this is something that some Canadians who are left wing care deeply about, so it must therefore be something that they must be vehemently opposed to.

Such political diametric opposition seems automatic with them. If the left says that the sky is blue, they will insist that it is green.

The thing is that they comprise a small minority of hard cynical people. The majority of Canadians, left or right, are very much disgusted and appalled by the recent discovery of this burial ground.

So I guess that few people really care what this small but determined group, on this relatively small and insignificant forum, actually think.

Certainly I have not seen their opinions expressed about this anywhere else.

Is it really necessary to point out that they have either proudly adopted those labels for themselves, or earned them by their actions? Hardly dog whistles.

And, if there is something that is truly common among left wingers is that they love spending other people's money.

And, as previously stated, the whole residential school fiasco is shameful. But, if you've been actually comprehending the responses, they're pointing out the cynical timing of this, in order to take the pressure off the Drama Teacher in Chief for his continuing incompetence. And, as I and others earlier pointed out, one more cynical opportunity to extort money from Canadian taxpayers, to fund a corrupt Indigenous bureaucracy that has not improved the lot of the average aboriginal in any way. The best way for an aboriginal to get ahead in Canada is to get off the fuqqing reserve.

I know a lawyer who worked for years for the insurance company that paid out on the lawsuits against the Catholic church. His sole job was to interview plaintiffs to truly establish that they were and had been affected by criminal activity within the church, because when you open the flood gates on something like that there are absolutely going to be opportunists who are going to try to file a false claim.

I am not, in any way, suggesting that the deaths at these schools were false or didn't happen. But I do expect any recompense paid out is solely to those who were directly affected by it, either personally or by close relation. Handing an expensive soother to someone who maybe knew someone who was related to a 5th cousin of one of the victims is BS.

Much the same as the call for reparations in the US, money should not be paid to people who were never slaves from tax dollars of people who never owned slaves.

News happens, that's why it's called news. That the band would have a ground search radar done to help the government, is so far fetched as to make wearing tin hats in public seem downright main stream. Bands just don't work like that.

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm sorry I'm not appalled or surprised, I don't need the discovery of bodies buried, stories of abuse etc to be appalled, I fully expect in every institution of similar nature to yield the same results, whether they are native schools or other.
Hugh already pointed out other institutions with similar stories of abuse, I fully believe those people too.

Perhaps you confuse someone who is de-sensitized, with someone who is uncaring. You can expect Canadians to grow weary of the constant guilt, blame, or the responsibility of these crimes to be passed around like the political football that it has become. Two wrongs does not make a right, the Harper government already apologized, reparations were made. Clearly, its not satisfactory, nor will it ever be. I truly feel sorry for any native youth who's mentor is struggling with their own bondage.

Since we are here I would suggest.....that every native person who has been affected (like myself) to give some thought to the response of their respective communities ie...why didn't the people arm themselves and machine gun these institutions and those responsible? Just a short time before these events occurred, Canada's native people had no issue's with moseying over and slaughtering another group of native people. In my view, it is a legitimate reason for the use of force to intervene and rescue these children, but they didn't.

My family told me..... that the RCMP were fully aware of the abuse that took place, they did FA.

673, if I’m reading your post right, you are native yourself.

If that is the case, expect to be “Uncle Tom”d, since your outrage is not selective enough, nor passionate enough. You obviously are just some dumb savage who needs whitey to be suitably outraged on your behalf.

Read the 3rd post in this thread, I stand on every word.
I know there is no such thing as reconciliation, and I just want to move on with Nation building. I also know where we are going with this, very worrisome if one loves Canada

I had read that and forgot it. Respect.

This works for me. I agree.

i only partialy agree BUT you must know the history of the catholic church, i went to a C school and played basketball against some of the res school kids , The C brothers of Ireland had some sadistic bassterds for teachers native kids were torn out of their family homes , to subject them to WHITE ways with no concern for family or culture, The C church like Governments never give us the whole picture and never will, to many things have been perperated by Gov And Churches in the name of God or what is best for the PEOPLE.

norm

I will add more later

Next week Trudeau will announce a "repatriation" tax for all non-native Canadians!

I think this story will be a small part of the Liberal election campaign in Western Canada. Most Canadians don't seem to care, so none of the parties will exert much effort, except in FN areas. I would like to be wrong, but based on the federal election track record, it will be ignored once again.

Only a few crocodile tears from Trudeau on this one, his tears were better to be seen flowing over the Muslim family that was run over, more votes there as indians don't vote as a rule.

It was pointed out to me that Justine may not want to talk about the residential school issue at all since his dad (Pierre) was in power for well over a decade while these schools were in operation...he did FA to stop, change, review or even acknowledge it.

I just shake my head when I hear people saying bring those responsible to justice. My uncle is in his mid 80's. The people that harmed him and his now dead brothers are long gone.

Anyone that was in a RC school system with Irish priests / Nuns from the 60's will have memories of what they were like. Not all were pleasant and the conditions were no where near what my uncles experienced.

The Liberal government of the day buried the 1907 report on horrendous conditions, the 60's scoop was a product of government policy, Trudeau the senior (the one that kept all the family brains) through Jean Chrétien added to the schools and had his own directives, Duncan Scott was a bureaucrat that implemented and drove policies that harmed many -- he is gone, the archaic Indian act is still in place and numerous apologies from various church authorities have been issued over the years (yet they continue to block access to records).

So junior will go after the memory of his namesake daddy or Jean Chrétien --- not likely.

Somehow there needs to be a permanent memorial created for these sites and at these sites. Surely if Wilfred Laurier and Pierre Trudeau can have monuments then something can be done to remember the victims.

In my travels the one remembrance monument that struck me the deepest was a tour of the Vietnam war memorial with all the names and dates. I saw friends or family touching the names and many tears. People talk of closure. Fine --- to me closure includes something tangible for remembrance that goes over and above lessons being added to school curriculum.

Good post Hugh, like you're other posts, very insightful.
Honestly, I am finding it hard to tell where the BS starts and the water has been muddied. I heard a well known Chief from BC talking on CBC the other day, he has been on quite abit lately, he couldn't remember the name of leader of the opposition (O'Toole) and referred to him as "the bald guy".

The divide between the Native community and the Citizens and the Government of Canada will never draw closer so long as there is leadership that shows classless disrespect and zero integrity. People like that don't want to forgive and forget, they want it to carry on until they have everything.

As I said before, reconciliation means taking away Constitutional rights and privileges from the Citizens of Canada, even though they had nothing to do with it.

Well said.

Good article by Conrad Black which addresses Covid, plus says much about the residential school graves that many of the so-called “haters” on here have suggested.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/co...lse-canada-has-taken-leave-of-its-senses

Now I’ll wait for the inevitable chastising from the clown with enough hubris to insist on his right to free speech in order to tell other people what and where they can post. Thankfully, I now have him on ignore.

Conrad pretty much nailed it on a number of issues

This doesn't have anything to do with residential schools. The people here are starting to see the guile of the Provincial Government and they are about to be exposed for the lying snakes that they are, so deceitful. While we were on lockdown here in BC, the Government and the FN have been having full on meetings, in secret. This is just another round of secret meetings.

The timing of the find is telling, just before aboriginal day? I will maintain the people of this Province are about to be informed of what reconciliation is going to mean, sportsmen will be the first to know...that is going to begin June 21. I will be surprised if there is any hunting from Citizens of BC in a couple years, and it will go the way of the Salmon fishing in some of the treaty area's, there isn't any. Then it all makes sense when the entire Province is in a treaty area, were fugged.

In talking to people I see their heart strings have been pulled. I am abit surprised at how many people have been led to believe these young ones they have found were murdered. Only the media has led people to believe they were murdered, nor is it a mass grave, it is simply an unmarked grave site with 215 people in it.

I was consoling someone the other day that was full of rage, blaming themselves for the residential schools....hey, that is what they want...for you to take the blame, drawing sympathy from the populace, before they are informed of how fugged they are going to be.
Ever wonder why we dont hear about the abuse and unspeakable conditions some of these kids were removed from in the first place? If anyone thinks kids died and their parents were not informed of it is a lemming.

I had my friend understand that they need to think for themselves and not be led by their heart and lying media, God requires us to think for ourselves.

Years ago people said to me there was going to be a war, I dismissed it, but now think it will happen, very concerning to hear my fellow man speak of one another, we have been maneuvered into a very bad position by the UN and the Court system we have here in Canada.

I wonder if there are grave sites in Quebec residential schools?......
I often go off to wondering if Quebec is going to side step UNDRIP?

This will be dismissed as right-wing religious propaganda but, as always, there are two sides to every story, then there is the truth.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/r...s-people-loved-their-residential-schools

The links provided above should be public knowledge, but they won't be. Tomson highway tells it like many others feel.
Instead they have found a Chief of note who tears up for the camera on que.

Other than the large sums of loot to be had, I am puzzled why some would choose to hand their problems to the next generation to deal with, making them...generational problems.
Is this the role of an Elder?

They can keep this narrative going for years if they peruse every residential school in Canada with their new friend...radar. One every week, or second week will take alot of attention off what Trudeau and the globalists are doing to the Country.

I am waiting for someone to inform Justin Trudeau that his Communist Dad was running the Country when some of these schools were still operating.

Will someone bring me up to speed?

Is it the way the children died? No markers?

Many of these graves are very old. Markers would have been wooden crosses or stakes which over time would decay away. Also many of these cemeteries were not maintained so marking locations would have also disappeared over time.

We toured New Jersey a few years back and visited cemeteries where my wife's ancestors lived when they landed in the US in the late 1700's. Many grave stones were not legible and there were spaces in the rows where a person would assume someone was buried but there was no way of knowing who or when as there was no marker. Either the original marker was wood and deteriorated or the site was not marked. Visiting old western graveyards you see much the same.

I am not saying what happened at the schools is right. It is just these sites have been known for some time (as per the truth and reconciliation report) however the foot dragging on production of records and actually undertaking investigative work has now led to a media circus plus a fake leader staging photo ops.

Thanks Hugh.

The MSM has told the story with the nefarious implication that the deaths were caused by those administering the residential schools. The stories went as far as to include the words "mass grave", implying genocidal intent, even though that was never the case nor the claim made by those involved.

Thanks Jordan.

That's right Hugh and Jordan.

I wish People would simply read the links provided by Bwana, otherwise its apathy.

I noticed quite a few unmarked graves in the local cemetery. Hasn't made the news though. There was a small cemetery on my daughter's property in North Carolina. Only one of the graves still had a marker and it was barely legible. I'm wondering when all those English kids who went to boarding schools will start asking for reparations. Even more, all those Irish kids who were sold into servitude or indentured. Why are they not speaking up? GD

The new Chief of the AFN is a Woman, her priority is reparations.....watch Trudeau make some promises, cry alot, kiss some native babies. That Gerald Butts fellow is one smart Communist.

Carried in a Toronto newspaper --- so perhaps there is hope that the false narrative on mass graves can stop.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...te-wakes-up-to-trudeaus-socialist-agenda

Unlikely. The Canadian MSM needs for there to be controversy and, let's not forget, they are liberals. Just like the MSM in the US. GD