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- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


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a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?

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Firstly, the two levels of Government, Provincial/Federal, and media have been preparing for a full on information campaign aimed at Canadians, in particular citizens of BC, it is now on. Everybody will find out all about it shortly, sadly, many will get screwed, including Native people....I know I am right.

On the residential schools, those are not "Christians".
Lets be careful not to be led by our hearts before we make a judgement on the information provided, because.....we dont know the condition of the children who died, perhaps they had health issue's before they were in the schools. Perhaps they had no families to return the bodies too, or maybe nobody cared about them. Lets also remember, not all people in authority were murdering pedophiles, and some of them loved the children.

Sadly, my family (Metis) were two generations in residential schools here in Canada, my mother, and her mother's generation, all of them.
I can safely say the institution destroyed them and the next generations (mine) have had to deal with some of the "stuff" that comes with it, like others, I keep that to myself and frankly have only the last few days revealed some of the stories to my sons.
I am not "wimpy" but find myself weeping openly, like now. What really gets me going is I see people who were once great
reduced to what can best be described as...broken.

I don't think it right to hold Canadians responsible, nor do I think their "right's and privileges" be infringed, but I am afraid that is what Canada will do next, book it.

Then I think there is a lesson here that go's over everyone's head.....we need to know and prevent this from happening to any people of any race on our soil again. We need to move on now, we need to forgive, but not forget.

I know that if Canada tries it again on any race of people, then I and others will fix bayonet's.

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It is a national shame and I’m sure Trudeau will apologize for it, throw money at it and do nothing else, just like he’s always done (and many PM’s before him - he’s just the latest, greatest national shame, though he seems to actually excel at it).

What needs to be done is for Canada to fully integrate FN into Canadian society. No more $billions sent to reserves with no accountability. No more cronyism among the chiefs and their families/hangers on. No more excuses for the rampant drug/alcohol/sexual abuse on reserves.

“Here is $X per FN citizen, which will be used to either establish yourself in a proper home/community and get whatever treatment/education you require. That $X is it, all you get. When that is gone, you fall into the same safety net/health care/work/live/taxation/existence every other Canadian citizen has to deal with.”

We’re done enabling you to perpetuate problems that should have been fixed 50-100 years ago.

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673;
Good morning to you my friend, I trust that other than this sobering topic we're discussing that you're reasonably well and your finger is getting better.

As you know about me, I have no FN ancestry that I'm aware of, I shall attempt to articulate this as carefully as possible.

I'll begin by saying that my thoughts and prayers are with all the folks attempting to deal with this, both FN and non FN as it's going to be a heart wrenching experience in all probability.

I have immediate family who lived in FN communities in 3 provinces during their careers - which were school teacher and RN. The RN portion meant she was the only medical practitioner in town most times. The doctor had to fly in and since it was always in the north, weather sometimes prevented that. The time span they were involved would have been about 1970 to 1990 more or less.

All that to say they went so far as to learn enough Chippewa dialect to converse a tad and lived in Dene, Cree and Tahltan FN communities.

Some of the FN communities were "dry" and some not.

When we visited the different FN communities - sometimes for extended periods of time, ie: an entire summer in Black Lake, SK, I got to know a few of the FN folks and saw them interact with my family enough to understand they had a mutual respect for each other.

That's all to say then 673, that the opinions of those family members on some of the social and community issues taking place carry more weight with me than for instance someone who was not ever there, you know? Since you've got direct involvement through family, you definitely are someone I'll choose to listen carefully to on the matter for sure.

A few years back I worked with a chap who passed way too young, but who's wife was FN and adopted into a non FN family during the infamous 60's Scoop. She told me that she felt her adopted parents had saved her life - full stop.

None of this defends taking children away from their communities ever 673, but you and I both understand how incredibly broken some of the communities were at that time.

I can still vividly see this as I type..... I was shocked to my very core....

It's Boxing Day 1977 at Cumberland House, SK. For reasons that I can't entirely recall, I wanted to get out of the house and away from family, so I gassed up my Arctic Cat 340 Jag and began to explore the community.

At that time, there was a Metis community and a FN Cree Federal Reserve beside it. When I sledded onto the Federal Reserve it was akin to crossing into a war zone - it was day and night - I cannot describe it differently.

It's -38° as I pass a house that has all manner of broken vehicles and stuff out front. The front window of what we'd call the living room is broken out and there's a baby standing in a diaper crying. It's -38°!!!

I'm 15, I don't know what to do.... I still don't know if I did the right thing, but I turned the sled around, went home and told my family. I want to say they called the RCMP, but that's lost on me now.

I still choke up when I type that.. That didn't happen in "my" Canada, you know?

So then what does that have to do with bodies near a former residential school? That's a valid question for sure.

My thoughts are only that first we need to determine who the people were and return them to their families with as much dignity as possible.

We need to attempt to ascertain the cause of death if that's possible.

That school in Kamloops was open from 1890 to 1969 I believe it was, so it would have been running during the time of the Spanish Influenza - but I have no clue as to how badly it affected Kamloops. I read that some communities in Canada had death rates of 1 in 6, but it might well have been much less in Kamloops.

I agree with your statement that we need to determine how those circumstances came to happen and then all sides need to take steps to ensure it's never, ever repeated.

Lastly 673, I am truly sorry that the FN residential school had a personal effect on you and your family sir, that I can say without question.

All the best.

Dwayne

Last edited by BC30cal; 06/02/21. Reason: better wording - maybe???

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Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


Should any of us be surprised by your genuine hatred and racism?


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Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


How do explain the presence of 3 year old children at a residential school?

I doubt very much that they were brought there.

Most likely they were the product of 'hands-on" sex education by priests who could not keep their "catechism" in their pants.

History has shown us that any time governments turn over anything to religious groups to administer, it ends up in complete disaster.


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You bring up the topic at hand...then it go's right over you're head.

I have seen enough bullschitt, to all native people on both sides of the border, please feel free to shoot me a pm.

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Originally Posted by 673
Firstly, the two levels of Government, Provincial/Federal, and media have been preparing for a full on information campaign aimed at Canadians, in particular citizens of BC, it is now on. Everybody will find out all about it shortly, sadly, many will get screwed, including Native people....I know I am right.

On the residential schools, those are not "Christians".
Lets be careful not to be led by our hearts before we make a judgement on the information provided, because.....we dont know the condition of the children who died, perhaps they had health issue's before they were in the schools. Perhaps they had no families to return the bodies too, or maybe nobody cared about them. Lets also remember, not all people in authority were murdering pedophiles, and some of them loved the children.

Sadly, my family (Metis) were two generations in residential schools here in Canada, my mother, and her mother's generation, all of them.
I can safely say the institution destroyed them and the next generations (mine) have had to deal with some of the "stuff" that comes with it, like others, I keep that to myself and frankly have only the last few days revealed some of the stories to my sons.
I am not "wimpy" but find myself weeping openly, like now. What really gets me going is I see people who were once great
reduced to what can best be described as...broken.

I don't think it right to hold Canadians responsible, nor do I think their "right's and privileges" be infringed, but I am afraid that is what Canada will do next, book it.

Then I think there is a lesson here that go's over everyone's head.....we need to know and prevent this from happening to any people of any race on our soil again. We need to move on now, we need to forgive, but not forget.

I know that if Canada tries it again on any race of people, then I and others will fix bayonet's.

Great post.

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Originally Posted by Wannabebwana
It is a national shame and I’m sure Trudeau will apologize for it, throw money at it and do nothing else, just like he’s always done (and many PM’s before him - he’s just the latest, greatest national shame, though he seems to actually excel at it).

What needs to be done is for Canada to fully integrate FN into Canadian society. No more $billions sent to reserves with no accountability. No more cronyism among the chiefs and their families/hangers on. No more excuses for the rampant drug/alcohol/sexual abuse on reserves.

“Here is $X per FN citizen, which will be used to either establish yourself in a proper home/community and get whatever treatment/education you require. That $X is it, all you get. When that is gone, you fall into the same safety net/health care/work/live/taxation/existence every other Canadian citizen has to deal with.”

We’re done enabling you to perpetuate problems that should have been fixed 50-100 years ago.

While the exact methodology needs some serious thought and planning so that the transition is as smooth and successful as possible, I agree with this sentiment.

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Originally Posted by saddlegun
Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


Should any of us be surprised by your genuine hatred and racism?


I see absolutely no hatred or racism in his post. Questioning a bold claim, and requesting evidence, is what any rational, logical citizen would do.

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Originally Posted by saddlegun
Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


How do explain the presence of 3 year old children at a residential school?

I doubt very much that they were brought there.

Most likely they were the product of 'hands-on" sex education by priests who could not keep their "catechism" in their pants.

History has shown us that any time governments turn over anything to religious groups to administer, it ends up in complete disaster.


Complete conjecture. Your bigotry and prejudice against religious groups is really showing in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by saddlegun
Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


Should any of us be surprised by your genuine hatred and racism?


I see absolutely no hatred or racism in his post. Questioning a bold claim, and requesting evidence, is what any rational, logical citizen would do.



You would not see any racism or hatred in anything that involves abuse against minorities I am sure.

And the statistics are fact, not "bold claims".


Last edited by saddlegun; 06/02/21.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by saddlegun
Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


How do explain the presence of 3 year old children at a residential school?

I doubt very much that they were brought there.

Most likely they were the product of 'hands-on" sex education by priests who could not keep their "catechism" in their pants.

History has shown us that any time governments turn over anything to religious groups to administer, it ends up in complete disaster.


Complete conjecture. Your bigotry and prejudice against religious groups is really showing in this thread.


Your opinion that I am bigoted and prejudiced against religious groups is complete conjecture and nonsense. It is merely your very biased and unsubstantiated opinion.

If you disagree with me then prove me wrong.

What is very apparent is how little you care about the needless deaths of innocent children.

But then they were not lily white like you, were they?


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I would humbly suggest that rather than be distracted and deflected by the "noise" of all of the angry and bigoted replies to the original post, that you actually read the original post again, and then think about it.

The statistics are not opinions, or conjecture. They are what is known.

Those who wish to deny them remind me of holocaust deniers.

Simply angry and hate-filled racists with an agenda who wish to distract you and replace the truth with their own narrative.


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Originally Posted by saddlegun
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by saddlegun
Originally Posted by ribka

a real social justice warrior l

So First Nation Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation announced last week they had found the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, buried at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School, once Canada's largest such school.


How many First Nation pathologists examined and identified the remains, the age of the remains and determined cause of death? Did all of these children die in the school and if so who made that determination?

Originally Posted by saddlegun
- In total at least 4100 residential school students died across Canada when these institutions were in operation.
- 350 such schools existed in total.
- 70% of all schools were operated by the Roman Catholic Church.
- 30% of all schools were operated by other "christian" churches.
- Over 800 resident students died in Alberta alone. (1 in 5 of all deaths Canada-wide)
- Red Deer Indian School operated for 26 years.
- Of 350 students in total there, 70 of them died. (20% death rate)
- 50 of those were buried in unmarked graves near the school.

Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".

Why were these children "disappeared" into unmarked graves?
Why were their bodies never returned to their parents?
Why was there no accountability by either provincial or federal governments?


Should any of us be surprised by your genuine hatred and racism?


I see absolutely no hatred or racism in his post. Questioning a bold claim, and requesting evidence, is what any rational, logical citizen would do.



You would not see any racism or hatred in anything that involves abuse against minorities I am sure.

And the statistics are fact, not "bold claims".



His post contained no abuse against anyone, but rather it contained a few simple questions about the situation.

The whole concept flies over your head. Clearly nobody is questioning the numbers. The questions are related to these children being found by certain parties, where they were found, the insinuation of the parties responsible for the deaths, and the implication regarding the cause of death.

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Originally Posted by saddlegun

Your opinion that I am bigoted and prejudiced against religious groups is complete conjecture and nonsense. It is merely your very biased and unsubstantiated opinion.

If you disagree with me then prove me wrong.


Here you go...

Originally Posted by saddlegun


Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".



Originally Posted by saddlegun

History has shown us that any time governments turn over anything to religious groups to administer, it ends up in complete disaster.


Now for this:

Originally Posted by saddlegun

What is very apparent is how little you care about the needless deaths of innocent children.

But then they were not lily white like you, were they?


Talk about unsubstantiated. Don't let your feelings and emotions get in the way of the truth. It's always the sign of a weak mind losing a debate when the person jumps to ad hominem attacks that are baseless and without evidential backing.

I probably care more about FN people than you could imagine, after having helped raise several FN children in a foster home setting.


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The first problem is the deaths and the second is that nobody even cared enough to document the deaths. They seem to have just been swept under the rug.
The problem when government and church collude is that you have the two most powerful groups together and there's really no way to fight them. Normally, you could pit one against the other. The same thing happened in Ireland.

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It has always seemed to me to be a good concept which was poorly implemented. Attempts were made to educate the FN people from , I believe, remote communities. Even today we are pouring tons of money in to remote areas where the people have little ability to make a living. Under these circumstances when is anything likely to change?

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by saddlegun

Your opinion that I am bigoted and prejudiced against religious groups is complete conjecture and nonsense. It is merely your very biased and unsubstantiated opinion.

If you disagree with me then prove me wrong.


Here you go...

Originally Posted by saddlegun


Part of the proud legacy of Canada and "christians".




Originally Posted by saddlegun

History has shown us that any time governments turn over anything to religious groups to administer, it ends up in complete disaster.


Now for this:

Originally Posted by saddlegun

What is very apparent is how little you care about the needless deaths of innocent children.

But then they were not lily white like you, were they?


Talk about unsubstantiated. Don't let your feelings and emotions get in the way of the truth. It's always the sign of a weak mind losing a debate when the person jumps to ad hominem attacks that are baseless and without evidential backing.

I probably care more about FN people than you could imagine, after having helped raise several FN children in a foster home setting.




This is about the deaths of children in residential skills, and not about distractions, deflections, and shooting the messenger.

That message is getting lost and the thread is getting derailed in pointless "he said, she said" accusations.

If these people really cared about the needless and cruel conditions that led to the deaths of these children, you would think that they would say so.

But they don't.

Like I said, I encourage the reader to go back and read my original post and think about it.

Do not allow yourself to be distracted and deflected by this "noise".

Last edited by saddlegun; 06/02/21.

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