Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Are government’s necessary?

We will have china's version of the global government.

Sure they are... but not the way they are being ran, nor by the people who are running them.

Governments do what people can not do themselves.

If it would stop there.

Look at what is going on in Oregon. People are expressing their "individuality and freedom" to burn cities to the ground and loot stores, Why? Because the government there is letting them.....there is essentially no government.

I go back to the John Adams quote....“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

As our country becomes less and less Christian we are going to need more government just to keep us from killing each other.

See my sig line.....

Nature tolerates no vacuum.
Some entity will rule.

Ain’t no Big Rock Candy Mountain.

I always agreed with Paine’s view of government.

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a Government, which we might expect in a country without Government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other law-giver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.

I believe that some form of government is not only necessary, but inevitable. There have been a bunch of theories put forward that describe anarchical solutions, but I daresay nobody would like actually living in them, especially not at the population densities we have today.

I read a lot of local history, and the main road out by us is a perfect example of what a pastoral anarchy was like. Winton Road stretches from the Mill Creek on the north side of Cincinnati out to an unnotable crossroad about halfway to Hamilton, Ohio. It passed through a ring of greenhouses and small truck farms that provided vegetables to the city, but as you get further out, there was a pattern that developed: one rather large white farm house about every mile, and between these were fields.

Nobody planned it that way. It just happened. The houses were built before the Civil War, and a few survived as working farms until I showed up in the late 50's. A very few are still standing, but they are now ringed by subdivisions thrown up in the 60's and 70's. See, back then you knew everyone on that entire road. There were only a couple dozen families. Now? It's all cut up into quarter-acre lots, strip malls, and gas stations. Folks back then just did what they did, and there was not much to argue about. I was around to watch the last of those farms get swallowed up.

But they did have government. They had the Springfield Township government. They had the Hamilton County government. They took turns at these posts. They dutifully collected taxes from each other. They organized school districts, volunteer fire departments, and eventually zoning boards and police departments. This was not something that was imposed on them. They did it, because it provided them with what they wanted-- security, protection and order.

One other thing worth mentioning: It looks like an ideal pastoral life, but it wasn't. Those farmers brought 3 times the lawsuits to the courts as the average citizen today. There wasn't much to argue about, but they always found something. Folks were dying left and right of dread diseases. In fact, the town just to the west of Winton Road, was renamed Mount Healthy, just because it escaped the Cholera epidemic of 1850. Per capita crime was much higher than today, and if something bad happened to you out in the field, it was 15 miles by wagon to the hospital in Cincinnati, and Winton road was badly rutted and you had to navigate the big hill above Wooden Shoe Hollow to get there. I was around to see the bypass built in the early 1960's. It was a massive public works project that cost millions, but it allowed the folks along Winton Road to have a safe way to get to town.

Is it possible to NOT be governed by something?????

Word.

4.8 trillion dollars (FY 2021) doesn't even buy border protection.

There is no such thing as anarchy, at least not as a relatively permanent state. Government always forms. When you start from anarchy, government forms through the power of the most powerful, vicious thug.

I agree that some form of government is inevitable, so its probably a good idea to figure out how to form a government that is at least somewhat effective, minimally intrusive and relatively cheap. So far, that's proven to be a pretty tall order, and I'm doubtful if it can be achieved on a large scale for more than one generation.

I haven't travelled the world to see how things work everywhere else, so maybe some little country somewhere has it figured out, but I'd be surprised.

The problem is, was and always will be human nature. Those most desiring power will always be attracted to positions in government. People are largely vindictive, greedy and gullible, and therefore easily manipulated by anyone promising them an advantage over their neighbor or to punish and restrict the freedom of a people who they don't like. The most power hungry people who are smart enough to be good manipulators and ruthless enough to step on whomever they need to in order to climb the ladder inevitably arrive at the top, so in short order you have mostly the very worst candidates possible filling all the most important positions of power. The results of that aren't hard to figure out.

After the American revolution, we had the opportunity to set up something completely different and, thank you Lord, we had a group of very intelligent men to set it up. There was no power grab like we see in most similar cases. They all had the idea of limiting central power, not the usual plan of an all encompassing central power.

Needed for defense, interstate infrastructure, judicial issues, and some enforcement. There is a lot in life, however, that it should have never stepped into like health care and welfare. People and families should be in charge of their own destinies.

Education, attempting to modify or define moral behavior....... to add to the list!

Afghanistan is like a social laboratory. A collection of tribes with Sharia law as the only common factor. The Taliban emerged as enforcers of the the holy way and slayed their way to power in the name of allah. Theocracies as touted by dummies like the crappy hamper have a few thousand years of history of oppression. The more fundamental the sect the more heavy handed and powerful the clergy.

A moral people can form a democracy w/out a prescribed religion if they share a commonality of culture. The founding fathers here were very careful and emphatic in separating church and state. The family is the building block of a civil society in which the strong protect the weak and aberant behavior is not tolerated.

An elected government fails when they create bureaucracies and allow them to assume regulatory and enforcement powers w/out recognizing that many humans are venal and will take advantage of any weakness. Civil Service protections have led to the gluttonous monster that tries to rule our lives today.

It is said that people get the govt. that they deserve. We are at a tipping point now.


mike r

That was a very good summation.

Too many people being allowed to vote is indeed a problem.

Genghis Khan was a warlord to who conquered vast swaths of land in order to provide his people with a home and to secure their future. Which he did by installing the Mongol way of life as the dominant one wherever he led his armies. He was one of the first, if not the first, great Nationalist leaders. Selfless, from the perspective of his people, selfish as viewed by everyone who wasn't.

"Government" is organic, kinda like a fire ant bed. A few dumbasses find a Snickers Bar and build a living around it. Everyone's fat and lazy and it's easier to let someone else build the tunnels and raise the babies.

Then the sugar runs out and they gotta steal it any way they can.

From my observation, he also gave the various peoples he met along the way a choice, either you can join me and my friends....or I can come over and kill all of you.