Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles I built another upper using this barrel

From Midway USA. I have the 20" version of this barrel and it shoots pretty darn good. This one is 18". I hope to test it out Monday. I think this is upper #10 or something like that. kwg
[img]https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017600744?pid=794051[/img]

Linkee no workee. I get an error message from Miday.

Ed

Linkee no workee. I get an error message from Midway.

Ed

Pretty worthless...

Ok. It's 2 a.m. and I can't sleep but if I get up to use the computer I'll wake up the wife.
I heard on another forum Midway is down.

I just tried it and the link works at 2:29 in the morning.
kwg

Looks like a very nice barrel. Probably accurate. Too bad it doesn't come with a matched bolt. What kind of muzzle device are you going to run? I'd bet money its going to be a shooter. Keep us posted..

I was gonna buy that exact barrel, but bought green mountain instead. Midway had free shipping that ran out before I could decide. GM has button rifling, what type in Stoner barrel.

My guess is it's a cut rifling due to the price. The 20" I own is a good shooter but I haven't spent much time with it. I have gravitated toward lighter and shorter rifles which means the 20" stays in the safe. Midway also has a 16" barrel in the same configuration as the 18" and 20" barrels.

I have come to the conclusion I have too many AR's and I can't seem to find the "right" one. I have a couple of polymer Tennessee Arms lowers. They do make for a light rifle. I currently have one with a Del Ton 16" light weight carbine barrel and a standard A2 clamp on handle. (Armalite) I keep going back to it for some reason. It's more like a truck gun than a fine shooting instrument and it comes in a light weight 6 lb package with no magazine in it. But, I like playing with the darn thing. I got a 1" group at 50 yards 2 weeks ago with it shooting my hand loads. For a cheap Del Ton upper and barrel it shoots very well. https://www.del-ton.com/AR-15-Barrel-Assembly-p/dt1021.htm


The 18" is too front heavy for a light rifle so the debate is do I buy a 16" barrel ? My brain says yes but my wife says "don't you have enough guns" ??

The 18" is going on a standard A2 lower (with A2 butt stock) from Aero Precision and an A2 front hand guard and no front sight. The gas block is a clamp on from Armalite. I haven't fallen in love with the free floated hand guards yet. I have a Cabela's 30mm 1-6 tactical style scope I got from someone here at the Fire and it rides on top of the upper. I have not put on a flash hider yet. I currently have a thread protector on it. The upper is also Aero Precision. The bolt and carrier are Tool Craft via Right to Bear Arms. Most of the components are "junk box" parts that I had stuffed away so this is like a bonus gun.

I haven;t figured out the picture thing so I don't have anything to show you. I hope to get to the range early this week and I'll give a range report.

kwg

A good post with good info. Makes me wonder how many guys do the same thing you are doing. Probably quite a few. Buy and build a bunch of different kinds and figure out which one you like the best. Funny thing you mention the A2 being one of your favorites. My buddy had that same realization a while back. Says he did all this research and decided the RRA was "the best one out there" for him. He bought it, used it and never liked it. Then he was at a gunshow and ran across a nice Bushmaster pre ban A2 upper. It is a national match upper. The guy only wanted $200 for it and he hesitated. His buddy that had a table at the gunshow got up and went over to the guy and handed him $200.00. Then he handed the upper to my friend and said you are crazy for not buying this. "That's one hell of a good deal, you won't find another like this one", he said. "Not for $200.00 anyway".

$200 is a smokin' deal for that upper. I seem to come back to the basics. I guess my time with Uncle Sam's green machine spoiled me. I also have an A1 upper that I plugged a 14.5" barrel from Brownells into and it sets on an M4 lower. The barrel is a 1/12 twist and it's not as accurate as the Del Ton 1/9 16" but I expected that from a chrome lined barrel. Both are sub 7 lb rifles and very handy. I even pulled a barrel from a Mini 14 and took it to a lathe and made it 17" and put it in the original style curved butt wood stock because I wanted something light and handy. Now I need to get a rifle rack for my ATV so I can carry something there as well as in the truck.
kwg

I made it to the range today. But, I had to do it twice. The first time the rifle failed to extract and eject. I was shooting it single shot and each time the BCG stayed locked back every time. It finally dawned on me that I had a brand new Ballistic Advantage BCG and when I bought it I bought it for a 6.8 SPC I was planning to build but never got it done. Of course the bolt face is wider for the 6.8 than it is for the 5.56. So, I had to go home and swap bolts in the BCG. It's about 8 miles each way from home to the range and back plus a number of traffic lights I have to go through. I spent more time driving that shooting today. Plus, I backed into a pole and scratched the crap out of the paint on the left rear corner of my car while at the range. It was an expensive trip today.

I was shooting some 55 grain hollow points I got from Midway over 25 grains of H335. I could only get on the 50 yard range so that is where I shot some 4 shot groups. My last 8 shots were right at 1.5" groups at 50 yards. That was just a bit larger than I was hoping for. The lower is an Aero Precision with a RR Arms 2 stage varmint trigger. The scope was a Cabela's 1-6 tactical. The scope does not have cross hairs, it has a horse shoe shaped circle with a dot in the middle. That might of been part of the issue but I was hoping for a group just a bit tighter.

Other than pulling a bore snake thought the barrel I did nothing more to the barrel prior to shooting. I like to run some Brasso with a plastic brush through the barrels before I shoot them but I did not get it done this time. The Brasso has a bit of grit to it to work out some of the rough spots. I'll do that tomorrow and try to get to the range again . I have a pistol bore scope so I will take a look at the bore and chamber as best I can. The brass did eject at 4:00 o:clock and the brass piled up in one spot about 10 to 12 feet from the gun.

Once I got the right bolt in the BCG the gun operated flawlessly with no misfeeds or fail to eject. I shot from some sand bags and every shot felt good. The primers are either CCI 450's or Federal Match primers. None of them showed any signs of excess pressure. I'm hoping with some shining up the barrel I can shrink those groups. I like the A2 stocks but I might have to try a collapsible stock just to see how the gun feels wearing one of those. Or, I can get the 16" barrel and put it on a collapsible stock lower. The only down side to that is I already have several 16" barreled rifles and really don't need another one. I have some 62 grain FMJ's I might try just to see if the groups get smaller. But, that's for another day.

kwg

Sounds like a hectic day. I'm surprised it's not producing better accuracy. Was the barrel extension sloppy when you installed the barrel into the receiver? Are the midway bullets good shooters in your other ar's? Your load sounds spot on though. That's where I run my 53's with H335..

The barrel extension was tight and the fit inside the upper was tight. I'm going to clean the inside of the barrel good tomorrow and hopefully that will smooth up the bore. I might switch scopes to a 3-9 Burris after I shoot it again if I don't like the results. I also seem to have more shake than I did just a few years ago. Even resting on sandbags doesn't seem to be good enough to control the shakes. But, I'm really thinking I need to change the scope to something with a much finer reticle.

I'm not ready to give up on the barrel just yet. It's too new to just walk away from it. Besides, a bad day at the range is so much better than a good day doing yard work.

kwg

Ha ha.. Yeah, the barrel probably needs a little breaking in. I wouldn't worry about it much, since it's so new. Some barrels are better than others too. I have 3 Windham weaponry barrels and the last one I bought is more of a dog than the other 2. Its on my new BCM, but I can't blame it on the receiver. Your scope sounds like a good close quarter combat type of scope, so you are on the right track to swap it out with a better scope with a good reticle. Try some 69gr sierra matchkings if you have some on hand. Those always shoot well.

I don't have any Sierra Match Kings in my bullet box. I'll be watching for some. That sounds like the perfect bullet for this barrel.

kwg

I cleaned the new barrel last night. I ran a couple of brush loads of Brasso through it trying to eliminate any rough machine marks. The brush slid through very nicely. Then I looked at the inside of the barrel with my bore scope. WOW !! Was there a lot of copper for only 35 rounds down the tube. I used some Patch Out in the barrel and some more Brasso and I greatly reduced the total amount of copper. I was really surprised just how much copper was in that barrel with just 35 bullets down the tube.

If you should happen to pick one of these barrels up I highly suggest you lap the barrel first to smooth it up. I was really surprised just how much copper was in the barrel. It will probably be next week before I get to shoot it again.

kwg

I'm no expert at gunsmithing or shooting, but don't you need a little brass to fill in imperfections in the barrel?

Agree. But just a little bit. For 35 bullets down the barrel, this was a lot of copper.

I'll get back to the range next week and check it again after another 30 or 40 bullets.

kwg

Definitely a button barrel.

Exactly^^^ I was going to suggest that. Pretty good deal and they are in stock. Received the email from them about a week ago... Great bullet. Hey J, have you tried the 69gr match burners? I bought some the other day. Sportsman's had a bunch of them, so some shops are getting shipments from Barnes. Price wasn't bad, at $26.00/box:


I've been wanting to load some up, but it's been hot here!!!

No I haven’t messed with them. Some say they are good others say not so good. I should buy some give them a try. But they are almost same price point as the 69gr smk’s.

I went back to the range today. I put 12 rounds through the new barrel. The first one was a flyer which I kind of expected since I had just cleaned the barrel. The next 11 were just over 1 inch at 50 yards.

I took the rifle home and checked it out with the bore scope. The copper is back. I did the Brasso thing and some more Patch-Out. In fact it's setting in the work shop with the Patch-Out still setting in the barrel. I'll give it an hour and go back. I was shooting some 55 grain hollow points and this time it was with 23.2 grains of RL10x. The upper functioned perfectly and the brass was deposited at 4:00 in one pile. If I can get the copper thing figured out I think it will be a shooter.

kwg

At 100yds group will be even bigger... I mentioned in the past if one is going to buy a barrel get a green mtn barrel. I bought one 2yrs ago at the time they said they were lapped barrels. No longer say that. But for $198 you can’t go wrong.. I recently bought a Ballistic advantage barrel for my daughters AR. I must hit the jackpot with this barrel. It will hold the 10ring at 600yds with 77gr Sierra OTM’s.

Which Ballistic Advantage barrel did you buy ?? I have 2 of them and they are good shooters. The nitride barrel is a 14.5 inch barrel and shoots well for what it is. But I bought one of the stainless barrels with the Wylde chamber. I'm getting good accuracy but it's very similar to the barrel I just bought from Midway. 1" to 1.5" at 50 yards. It only has about 50 or 60 bullets down the tube so it's a bit early to decide just how accurate it will be. I was hoping to see holes stacked on top of each other.
kwg

I took my Midway barrel to the range today. The groups continue to tighten up. I did attack it again with the Brasso and copper killer since the last time I posted. I shot again at 50 yards and I was just over 1 inch with a 4 shot group. It was a 3/4 inch group but I threw shot number 3 taking it slightly over an inch. No doubt I am the weak link. Even off of a rest I can't seem to hold completely still. I am still using the Cabelas 1-6 30 mm scope with the cross hairs inside of a circle scope. It's not a perfect scope but it's usable. I have an unemployed 3-9 Burris but I haven't found rings I like yet. I was using Nikon AR rings but I have not seen them for a while. I assume Nikon stopped making them when they got out of the scope business.

kwg

You just can’t polish a turd…

My feeling is the biggest turd is the guy pulling the trigger.

kwg

As said before you stretch that to 100yds you will chucking that barrel
In the trash can..

Very likely. Too bad though. I was hoping it was going to shoot well.

I don't think anything less than 100 yards is any indication.

Ive shot enough to know that any accurate centerfire rifle will put all the bullets through the same hole at 50 yards. Im sure 79s has seen the same, thus the reason he said he'd toss the barrel in the trash can. Unless i'm reading your post wrong?

Lawrence I picked up a cheapo 18inch ballistic advantage barrel couple months back. To replace a 1-9 twist on my daughters AR. Anyhow that damn thing shoots 77gr Sierra’s very well just over an MOA good enough to hold the 10ring at 600yds. Let a buddy use it for a 600yd match and he was trying to get my daughter to sell it to him lol. I also seen barrels I owned that left me frustrated, funny one I had a 16 inch 5.56 barrel I tried and tried to get it to shoot 77 Sierra’s. This was a psa barrel. I burnt up a lot Bullets and primers. I pulled it off gave it to a my buddy. Well he used it for a build and brought it to the range. He was shooting 55gr fmj factory ammo and that damn thing was shooting great groups lol.

Ha ha yeah, ive seen that. My buddies national match bushmaster A2 (1in 9) shoots the green tip ammo just as well as 69gr match grade stuff. You never know what a barrel is going to do until you run an assortment of stuff through it. I like it when my barrels like the 77s. Most all of them love the 69 SMK. The 77's are much better out past 400 yards though.

At my next chance I'm going to shoot from the 100. I'm going to put it on one of the lowers with a RR varnmit trigger. I need to find some of those 69 grain hollow points. It may take a bit of work and it may never be a Green Mountain barrel but it may live to shoot another day.

kwg

It appears that 79S is correct. I took the rifle with the Midway barrel back to the range yesterday. I had swapped the upper to a lower that has the Rock River 2 stage varmint trigger and put a known Bushnell fixed 10 power on top. I started at 50 yards like I normally do to check the scope. I was shooting 60 grain soft points over 25 grains of IMR 4895.

This barrel is NOT free floated. I am currently using a standard midlength hand guard and a front end cap behind a gas block to keep everything in place. At 50 yards I'm not sure it would make a huge amount of difference. I'm going to get a free float hand guard at some point but it may not go on this barrel. I used what I had in the parts box for this upper.

The 1st shot was always just a bit right of the bull. The 2nd shot was in the bull. The 3rd shot was somewhat close to the first shot and the 4th shot was right next to the shot in the bull. Both pairs were just a bit over an inch away from each other. I did this several times and the results were the same. 1st and 3rd shot was outside of the bull and the 2nd and 4th shot were in the bull right next to each other. I was using a 1" bull.

I was using a new Magpul 10 round magazine and some reloads that I put together in 2014 that have always shot well. I can't explain the behavior of the 2 different POI's. As the barrel heated up the spreads grew just a bit bigger but nothing outrageous.

I didn't bother going to the 100 yard line. I sure wish I had looked at the Windham Weaponry's barrels before getting this one.

kwg

kwg, how did the barrel fit in the receiver? Was it loose or was it nice and snug? How was your torque setting? Not too tight, as that will play hell on groups as well sometimes. There's a good thread here on bedding a barrel into the receiver, but it may not be a good idea if you have a mediocre barrel. Like I said before, I was hoping you'd have a good shooter with that barrel. I think for the most part the consensus here is you get what you pay for. Its awesome when you get a barrel for a good deal and it shoots sub moa, but often times that is not the case. Like some of these other guys always preach, spend your money wisely when it comes to barrels. Also, If you want to rule out the handguard, I have a round freefloating handguard I can send you, if you want it. I'm not using it:

Hello BSA
The fit into the receiver was good and there was no wiggle. But, it was not a force fit. I did have to put some torque on the barrel nut to get to the next notch and fit the gas tube. My guess is without a torque wrench on it 60 to 70 lbs.

Jiveturkey has volunteered me a free float hand guard and says he can get it in the mail quickly. I appreciate the offer. I live just 50 miles from Brownell's and was going to make the drive to pick one up but other things seem to get in the way.

I had seen this barrel on Midway's web site and have considered it for some time. I had the parts to complete a mid length upper and that is what added to the appeal of this barrel since it has the mid length gas port. The external machine works look good. The internal machine works also look good but for some reason the barrel seems to collect a lot of copper. But, the first shot is no better or no worse than the last shot. I put 48 rounds through it on my last outing. I haven't looked down the barrel yet since my last range trip. I expect to see copper I just don't know how much.

I have an 11 degree muzzle reamer. I could touch up the muzzle just to eliminate that but I did not see any dings or deformations on the muzzle when I put it together. I don't have a flash hider on the threads, just a thread protector for now.

When Jiveturkey's hand guard gets here I'll get it all put together and give it another try. By then it will have gotten another cleaning and should be ready to go.

kwg

The older Stoner barrels were Liberty barrels and shot really well. I have one that’s a 20” with their SDMR profile. The ones made in the last couple of years are said to be made by Bear Creak Arsenal and it’s pretty hit and miss with them. I also have one of these BCA in a 20” 6.5G and it’s a copper mine. Not very accurate. I may waste time and money trying to break it in or just say screw it and buy a different 6.5G barrel. The easy button is to buy a barrel from a quality barrel maker. Sometimes the extra $100-$150 is worth it in components and time.

That's why a lot of guys say to spend the little extra on a good barrel. One from a reputable manufacture. You briefly talked about Liberty barrels. I have one and it seems to be pretty good. Doesn't copper foul like you say the BCA does. The BCA's are known to be hit and miss. From what I saw in the little bit of research I did on Liberty, there are a lot of guys saying they are good barrels. They are fairly inexpensive as well. The 6x45 20" stainless barrel cost all of about $250.00. Its a decent shooter, but not nearly as good as my Windham Weaponry barrels.

I received the free float hand guard from jiveturkey yesterday and mounted it ladt night. I got to the range today shooting the same 60 grain soft points over 25 grains of IMR 4895. My groups shrunk by 50%. I'm short of time tonight but I'll go into detail tomorrow . There is something to these free float hand guards. This is the first time I have used them.

kwg

Couple yrs back BCA was having a Veterans Day deal enter and get free barrel. My buddy entered and sure chit they sent him a 5.56/223 Wylde barrel. He says that thing shoots bug holes. Fast forward he bought a complete upper from them he said that rifle won’t even shoot 2 inch groups he says it’s pretty bad lol.

Let's sum it all up:
After shooting the rifle yesterday with the 60 grain reloads I put together in 2014 I am convinced that free floating the barrel has some real benefits. I want to thank jiveturkey for sending the hand guard to me for this "experiment". The brand of hand guard is from unbrandedar.com. This is the hand guard that jiveturkey sent. https://unbrandedar.com/product/v4-mlok-rail-12/

As we all know we get what we pay for. I bought this barrel because I had some parts laying around and all I needed was a mid length barrel to make another complete upper. It took some work but the barrel was "getting better" with some use and several cleanings to eliminate the copper and smooth it up internally.

I was very much surprised at the quality and size of the groups I fired yesterday. With my second load of 4 rounds (I like 4 shot groups) I got 3 into the center of the bullseye all over lapping forming a nice little triangle with one flyer 1/2" to the right. I don't know if the flyer was me, the barrel or the reload but I was happy with the group otherwise. This was all at 50 yards again as the 100 yard range was busy and it was 96 degrees on the range yesterday. As the barrel (and I) heated up the groups got a bit wider as well, but otherwise the groups were at least 50% better than with the traditional hand guard just a few days ago.

The bottom line is this is a good barrel. But, it is not a great barrel. I have some other rifles that could use a floating hand guard and that is where I plan on spending some money next and on a later day revisit the 18" barrel with something better. I have a 16" Armalite upper I bought 15 years ago that shoots well but I think I can get it to shoot better if I free float the barrel. I can think of a few more AR's in my gun locker that could stand to be free floated if I choose to keep them.

Thanks for the participation.

kwg

Not to reiterate what others have said, but shoot that dang thing at 100 yards.

It's coming. I have more reloads.

kwg

Maybe try working up a load with a different bullet too. If you can get your hands on some 69gr SMK's, those usually fly pretty straight. I think we were talking to 79s in a different thread about those. I've been seeing them on places like midsouth.
69gr SMK in stock

Sportman's has some 68 grain Hornady BTHP's I thought would be a good choice. Suggest a good load using Winchester 748. It's the only powder I have a lot of.

kwg

Get the 69 smk and save yourself the trouble..

OK.

kwg

John is kind of hard on that bullet, along with the noslers. I actually had pretty good luck with them, but can't find them around here. So, I stick with the 69 and 77SMK's. If the Hornadys are less than $24.00/box, id buy them. When I get home ill post up some targets with load data.

Since I'm going to dial this in for 100 yards and no further at this time I'm looking for a flat based bullet. I get it that John shoots much further than 100 yards and a flat based bullet just won't cut it for the distances he shoots. I have the Hornady book and it does have a listing for the 68 with Winchester 748.

I went to the range today and was able to get on the 100 yard range. I shot some 55 grain Hornady soft points into 2 inches with that Midway 18" barrel. I want to try the Hornady 68's but it's going to be some time next week. We are going camping this week coming up and there is no range where we are going. It's going to be a long hot week.
kwg

The 68gr hornady is a match bullet and is a boat tail, if I remember right. They shoot very well in my bolt gun. Longer OAL than what I run my AR's though...:

Impressive. Your overall length is 100 thousands longer than we can stuff into an AR magazine but it appears to pay off.

kwg

Yeah, it was for a bolt action savage. You can load them to ar mag length. 79s says they are not consistent. He may be right, but this bolt gun loves them. Again, like him, I really like the 69gr SMK for a good short game bullet. Even though they are a boat tail match, they are very consistent shooting. I'll be shooting an AR match this saturday and that is the bullet I'm going to run. I'll be using my Noveske and my Northtech Defense. They shoot the same load very well. One I've posted before.

Lol I tried and tried to get them damn things to shoot. I haven’t tried them in this ballistic advantage barrel. But those 69 smk shoot real well for me. I think you can get 500 68 hornady otm for $89 bucks which is pretty damn cheap. Hell for that price I might buy me some just to have.

If you want a flat base bullet, try the Sierra flat base version of the 69 SMK - the 60gr HP. It's just a 69 with the BT cut off.

It may very well be the best shooting .22 Sierra makes.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/product/22-caliber-60-gr-hp/

J, I had the same problem with the 75gr hornady match bullets. I bought 1000 because they were cheap. I wont do it again

Great suggestion Tyrone.

That sounds like a plan Tyrone. Except for over the top of picked bean fields and maybe a corn field we don't have many shots over 100 yards. A flat based bullet does well for our needs. There are only 2 over 100 yard ranges in the area. At the closest range you have to be a member and the next one is 90 miles away. Right now it looks like my Ruger American compact, also with an 18 inch barrel is the accuracy king at my house.

I shot a 2" group with the Midway barrel yesterday using the Hornady 55 grain soft points and 25 grains of AA2460. This load is one of my favorite combinations. It appears the barrel just isn't going to be what I hoped it would be. At least with the current loads I'm using. With a flat based 60 grain HP I can use them in the Ruger and maybe even the Remington ADL with a 1/12 twist.

I will give a few more bullets a try just in case I'm missing something. The 68 grain Hornady and the 69 grain Sierra sound promising. But, I'm going to take a break from this project for now. Come fall and some cooler weather I'll look at it again. I will say I'm really enjoying the range time. Even a bad day at the range is a good day. For future reference; if there is a next time, I'm getting the BA barrel.

I want to give a shout out to jiveturkey for letting me use his free float hand guard during this process. I was surprised just how much the hand guard affects accuracy. That was my biggest lesson during this process.

kwg

Sounds like you learned something good buddy. I believe in the sticky I started most agree that a freefloating handguard cuts group size down. I know in my upcoming shoot, the rifles I use will all be wearing freefloating handguards. All except for my Colt. Last year at one of our shoots, I felt bad for pulling out the Noveske in the iron sight matches, so I put it away and shot my Colt. It does not have a free floating handguard, but it must have a damn good barrel:


This was the target from that shoot, with my new (at the time) Colt:

I was on a roll that day.. ha ha . The Portlandia and Vancouver guys thought they were going to come to your little hick clubs range and clean up that day. They were using some fancy olympic style AR's too. I'm wondering why they didn't come back to the next ar shoot we had? They wanted to come in and change some of your slow fire shoots. One guy say's, "lets have a fast fire event". I ask, what does that entail? "Well, it's 10 shots in 60 seconds", says the Vancouver sob wearing the shooters jacket. I say, "that's not what I would consider "fast fire", let's do 10 shots in 10 seconds". If you don't get all 10 shots on target, you get scored accordingly. Fair is fair right? They only got 7-8 shots on target. Poor saps.. It was fun/funny watching them try though.. As stick would say, "bless their hearts"...

Lawrence, Are these fast fire relays 10 shots all done from one mag? And shot off the bench? Anyhow NRA rapid fire is not as easy as one thinks. It’s done from position one is sitting rapid fire 60 seconds on appropriate target. The other is prone rapid fire and you get 70 seconds for that one.
For sitting rapid fire you use - NRA No. SR-1 Reduction of the SR Target for use at 100 yards to simulate the 200-yard stages of the National Match Course. Rapid Fire—when the sitting or kneeling position is to be used, the time limits for 10 shots will be 60 seconds.
For prone rapid fire you use SR21 targets and have 70 seconds to complete course of fire.
10.1.7 Rapid Fire Loading Procedure— For rapid fire stages. All shooters must start in the shooting position for the appropriate stage of fire (i.e. sitting or prone) before firing their rapid fire strings.
After the announcement “YOUR SIGHTER PERIOD HAS ENDED” or “FOR YOUR SECOND STRING OF RAPID FIRE” has been made, and before the targets appear, the rifle must be kept out of the shoulder, and the ammunition must remain on either the ground or shooting stool. When the targets appear shooters will retrieve their ammunition, load either 2 or 5 rounds and commence fire. (Note: the rifle need not be in the shoulder before the bolt is closed.) After firing 2 or 5 rounds, competitors will reload 8 or 5 rounds as appropriate. Reloading before firing the 2nd or 5th round (hot reload) will result in the shooter receiving a total score of “0” for that entire 10 round string of fire.
So for AR15 you would load your magazine 2 and 8. Those folks from Portland/Vancouver were just trying to bring nra high power rules. But if your club is running non sanctioned nra matches those guys shouldn’t really care how your club run your mstches. I have no doubt you would easily make expert/master in your first couple of years. If you found clubs running sanctioned across the course matches in your neck of the woods.

Our shoots are for fun, some of our guys shot NRA matches, but some of those guys have passed on, so we are pretty laid back. We shoot off the bench and then offhand. The fast fire matches are fired off the bench, which is very easy, as you know. The guys from Vancouver and Portland shoot NRA sanctioned matches. They try to bring some of their experiences to our matches. Some of these guys are snide, but I don't take chidt from anyone and when they propose something, I suggest something a bit more challenging. It kind of throws them off. Sometimes big time and they are not prepared for it. Like I said, they came to my clubs first AR match thinking they were going to make us look bad, but ended up they ate chidt. One of the reasons they haven't came back. They have came back to our clubs military rifle shoots, but they didn't like my swedish mauser either. I had 2 of the cork suckers watching my target with spotters last time. One of them really wanted my rifle after the shoot. Your NRA sanctioned matches sound like a lot of fun, as I've told you before, "shooting is shooting". None of it is that difficult. However, as it is now, I prefer the laid back matches my club has to offer. Knocking off 5 golf balls hanging from strings in less than 2 seconds is a hoot, our newest rimfire shoot (know your limits) has been a kick in the pants. The smallest target is 1/4" in diameter. I ran 14 matches a couple weekends ago undefeated.. a 1/4" diameter target is pretty small, even at 50 yards with a rimfire. A lot of our members are ex military. One we call "sarge" is an old marine gunnery sergeant who shot Quantico. One of my favorite rivals at my club is an ex airborne ranger. All of our club members are good shooters, but we shoot mostly for fun. I don't mind when big wig attorneys from Portland show up with their $5,000.00 worked over CMP m1's. It makes the wins that much more satisfying.. Guys that want to brag need to be able to back it up, or they just end up looking stupid..

I know a minute and a minute 10 sound slow, but you've got to end with some time left in case of Murphy. Also, you've got to be able to shoot it clean with at least 5 Xs to be competitive. This goes for 200 sitting and 300 prone. Anything less and I'm pizzed. (Yes, I'm that way a lot )

Tyrone, ever hear of the Carl Ross positional shoot here? You should shoot it buddy. Formid did and so did some others. Mucho respect goes out to the ones that actually shot that event... As per always, there are some guys that talk about shooting and there are others that actually shoot. Or put their money where their mouth is. You might make high score on that one. 79s should give it a go as well... A long with some of the camp perry boys here.. Do a search on that shoot. Its a timed event and great practice. I like shooting it right before hunting season.

I'm putting my money where my mouth is up at Perry.

You should try it some time. You'd probably do well. There's nothing like beating out 1,100 other guys to make the President's 100!

Lucky! One day I will make it their just to shoot it.

Yeah, and 600 is a whole 'nuther ballgame from 300 & under. Especially in those Perry winds!

Hello all
I took Tyrone's advice and tried the 60 grain Sierra HP's. I found a box of 100 in my bullet closet. They did in fact shoot very nicely with 25.5 grains of 748 and 23.8 grains of 3031. But, with the 18" Midway barrel the best I could do was a loose 1/2 inch at 50 yards. I was expecting one hole 4 shot groups at 50 but it did not happen. The POI was exactly the same with either load. To change up the mix I also shot some 60 grain Hornady V-max's with the same powder loads. I got the exact same POI's and group sizes but no one hole 4 shot groups. It appears from this experience the 60 grain HP Sierra's and the 60 grain Hornady V-Max's are pretty closely matched in performance. Both are flat based bullets.

I also loaded up some 69 grain Barnes HP's I found in my reloading closet. The group sizes grew to 1" at 50 yards. As stated by other contributors to this forum the Midway barrel is never going to be a sub MOA or even an MOA shooter. I am disappointed but Midway never guaranteed a group size with this barrel so it's a case of buyer beware. It did fit the parameters of what I was looking for so that is why I bought it. I recall one other forum watcher was considering this barrel. I suggest that if sub MOA or even MOA is your goal this is not the barrel to buy. Thanks everyone for following along.

kwg

My apologies. I probably should have just told you "It doesn't shoot" rather than give you more false hope.

I was discussing this with a friend the other day. I too have an AR barrel that doesn't shoot. I foolishly tried lots of different loads in it to no avail. This friend told me I should have bench rested it too. He seemed almost insulted when I told him that if it won't shoot with a 69 or 77gr Sierra and 23.5-24.5gr of Varget or Re-15 that it won't shoot and you should stop wasting your time.

It sure is easy to get caught up in the "try this, try that" BS.

Tyrone, any day at the range is a good day. Even if the barrel does not reach my expectations. I went out today in 92 degrees and 90% humidity and shot my 16" Armalite mid length that is NOT free floated and was getting just as good of groups with it that as I was with the Midway barrel which IS free floated. You get what you pay for. That upper will just have to set in the closet for a while. I really want to free float that 16 Armalite barrel to see just how much better it shoots. But, I have other issues I need to attend to so the barrel testing is just going to have to wait for a while. Besides, it's way too hot out right now. It will be in the 90's until Friday. That's just a bit much for me anymore.

Thanks for all of the input.

kwg.