Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats What advantage is $600 dollar BOTTOM METAL over $150 dollar bottom metal?

FYI

It is my understanding that Mr. Blackburn is contemplating selling the manufacturing rights and tooling and current orders to his bottom metal lineup. Might be a good opportunity for someone who likes the machining trade and likes the gun trade.

It is in fact one of the three you mentioned, costs nearly 3 times as much, and I've seen just as bad, if not worse from another amongst your list, which is why I've made the statements that I have.

As far as doing myself a favor, I'd say that prior to commenting on what turned into a one-sided justification for high-priced bottom metal, Jim wasn't doing me any favors either.

I developed bottom metal in a one-piece configuration back in 1999 for the sole purpose of selling them to USRAC, which I did in abundance, eventually supplying the entire Super Grade line, as well as the Safari Express, and Super Express models offered through their custom shop. The goal at that time was to produce what "they" wanted, not the general public and at a cost that they would bite on. After being quite pleased with what had been created, I looked at the current competition in bottom metal and realized that there was no place for a blue collar guy to go if he wanted an upgrade over the factory junk. At that point, I put the word out to Brownells and later Midway, as well as beginning our website to sell them there. It was soon apparent that there was a significant amount of people who wanted good quality wares, but didn't like the sticker shock associated with the current lineup. It also became apparent in a relatively short length of time that the custom crowd did not want some of the features that I was offering, like a push-button release, no draft, and no straddle floorplate.
It admittedly took quite a while to bring all the features my customers had asked for on board for our entire line, and in 2006 we introduced our new Inside-The-Bow bottom metal.
The new bottom metal is made from a solid piece of A-36 and has the Oberndorf-style release, 2deg. of draft around the entire profile and each and every assembly is hand-fitted to ensure that it latches properly and does not rattle. For Remington 700's they drop into the factory inletting, which was another issue I had with my older versions, which cost me sales at that time. Now the design I made has now been adopted by FN in an aluminum version, which means that our bottom metal is the only one on the market that will drop into their factory stocks, without having to be inletted. In fact, based on the numerous samples that I've seen of my competitors models, they lack the amount of material to be used on any factory stock, unless you like large gaps around the guard and front guard screw.

My main concern about this thread was that Jim had used our older-style bottom metal and had drawn conclusions on what our new bottom metal was like, before actually using one. Our first bottom metal had to satisfy our largest customer's needs at the time, but the Inside-The-Bow models have been made to offer our customers every option they asked for in a price they could afford, while not sacrificing the quality of the end product.

I didn't set out to make a cheap bottom metal.......I set out to make the best quality model I could, while using the most efficient methods I knew of to do so, resulting in a product that has all the custom features a customer is looking for, without the custom price.

Matt , are you still producing the old style bottom metal? What about a aluminum version of the Oberndorf style?
Any word on the action you talked about?

We stopped producing the older-style bottom metal and I can't warm up to the aluminum.

I stopped putting out any word on the receiver, simply because I've had so many irons in the fire, that giving an accurate reveal date has proven to be less than useful.
I have countless hours and more money than I'd like to count in the project, so I haven't given up on it, but I'm not releasing anymore information on it other than that.

One thing is for certain: Williams products are in demand. I can't find a long action Obendorf unit to save my life!

I like the Blackburn unit I own, but, I only buy the Williams Oberndorf unit anymore.

???
Are you talking about this?

I thought I brought up something customers had a beef with in the past and you answered it very well helping clear up any question about this subject.


Matt
Has anyone here said things like this about your products?




I'm not putting words in your mouth here.

It seems like you're p eeing all over the other manufacturers products and I don't think anyone has returned the favor. This isn't politics. Just gun parts.

It's hard for me to understand why you are so frustrated about the competition and their pricing. They didn't price your products.

When you think about it, your products are in a market of their own. You specifically targeted and created a market that wasn't really there in the first place.



In your own words you call your products an upgrade over the factory junk. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Sunny Hill (originally designed long ago by Pete Grisel) and Blackburn and a very few others started building floormetals many years ago for the custom gunmaking trade before the synthetic stock became very popular. These custom floormetals like drop magazines, integral magazines for M70s etc were never intended to be an upgrade over the factory floormetal. Most all of them ended in a custom walnut stock hand crafted for the customer. They weren't marketed to what you call a "blue collar guy". They were marketed to ANYONE who wanted a custom alternative to the factory floormetal and were building a custom stock in the process not caring what the factory inlet looked like. Never intended as a drop in easy upgrade.

Now that you've cornered the market that you created it seems you've a bone to pick with those who are apparently outside your market but make similar products. And apparently your frustrated when people think about your stuff as just an upgrade over the factory junk.. YOU need to stop calling it that.

Again I say: I think you make a good product that has a large following of happy customers. You should be proud of it. Isn't that what you set out to do after Winchester went Tango Uniform?

All aftermarket bottom metal is an upgrade over the factory junk, including your A-list.

Like I've said many, many times before..........Put both in your hand at the same time and tell me that you got what you paid for. I don't believe that you can put both my bottom metal and my competitors side-by-side and look at the attention to detail on both and come to same conclusions you have on this thread.....

On that note, I'll let you have it, since I've pretty much wasted enough of my time on this thread.

I just wish Matt and McMillan could get on the same page.......

It might be the same advantage a bottle of $200.00 wine has over a $10.00 bottle?
whelennut

First off, it's exquisitely finished--the gunsmith doesn't have to do anything except blue it or color case harden it. Next, it has a straddle floorplate--generally the most sought-after type in high-end custom gunsmithing. It's not something you're going to put on a bubba'd-up barn-find, but hey, to each his own.

12 year old thread... new record?

Uh, one's in all caps, and the other isn't ??

Wow, old thread. Some of these guys are out of business, some fresh out of the clink, others have passed into the great machine shop in the sky.

As an aside, I bought a nice Model 70 a few months ago with PT&G Oberndorf bottom metal. It has a custom feature that allows me to see the tops of my boots through the loading port about 60% of the time I pull the trigger. Neat feature.

I paid almost $800 for Fisher bottom metal for a Mauser, but the rest of the rifle came at no additional charge…..

😂

That was funny….

I honestly haven’t had much of an issue with plain old Winchester BM. I just swapped my Mashburn to Featherweight BM and couldn’t be happier.

Mine doesn’t let me see my boots like yours, but it works okay…. I’m cheap I guess

All of my model 70's bottom metal works flawlessly. Speaking of going with fwt bm, thats exactly what I did with my pre 64 338wm. I was trying to keep weight down, and ended up at 7 pounds even. That includes scope mounts and rings.

Your 338 is 7 flat with a scope BSA?

Nope, with scope mounts. Running aluminum bottom metal helps lighten it a little. Plus the H&H receiver is slightly lighter than a standard receiver..


It was 7 3/4 pounds with the Swaro on top:


Now it is around 8 pounds all up with the Conquest on top. I prefer the Conquest over the Z3 Swaro. As for bottom metal, like I said, never have had an issue with any model 70 factory bottom metal. Especially the pre 64 models. I know there are guys that swear they have issues, but it always makes me wonder. I am known to tinker and fine tune my rifles though. I've ran into issues where the bottom metal may need to be glass bedded or a simple washer added as a shim. Whatever it takes to make it work and not cause issues. I don't think a pricey aftermarket bm is really worth it, unless it's a full on CUSTOM. Some others may disagree. I will say this, like I have in the past many times before: I will not use a rifle that does not function 100%, 100% of the time.. Hint.. Oh, and you know me well enough by now that I don't even have to tell you how accurate it needs to be...