24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230

I'm looking for someone who makes a serious hobby out of playing with and researching GPS matters using civilian mobile devises, such as phones and tablets, for the purpose of asking questions about field performance.

Do we have any such techies here?

BP-B2

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966

Maybe… what do you want to know?

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
Within the past few months, I bought an iPad mini 5 with GPS and paid for a subscription to GaiaGPS. One reason I went with this is that one of my nephews is a former Navy Seal with a specialty in communications and he uses it on his iPhone. (He was the biggest member of his team, so guess who got picked to hump the radio?)

Well, I should have questioned him a little more closely, and now that I've lived with the system for a while, I'm discovering the downside of civilian (versus military) grade equipment.

I live in Southern Nevada and a few months ago, it was working brilliantly - in Southern Nevada. Well, now, with two software upgrades under my belt, I've taken the iPad to Eastern Nevada (Great Basin NP) and into Utah, and damn, I'm having a lot of trouble maintaining GPS lock.

I didn't have trouble before, and now I am. And now, my Seal nephew is telling me that he sometimes has trouble maintaining lock on his iPhone and - AND - this is a particular problem in Utah, although he hasn't yet told me why Utah.

Well nobody on YouTube has mentioned this. And nobody on GaiaGPS users forum is saying it either.

So, here's where I want to learn more:

1. How good is my GPS hardware in the iPad mini? Is it only just acceptable for the common, run-of-the-mill customer? Or is it a really good piece of gear?

2. Is there anything I can do to reduce interference or difficulty within the iPad mini?

3. IF the GPS hardware in the iPad mini is the weak link here, is it possible to find a better quality aftermarket GPS unit that can be slaved to it?


Last edited by tjm10025; 06/30/21.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,242
G
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
G
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,242
You can go to GPS.gov and search for any known problems, or report any problems in specific areas giving as much information as you can ( they want to know about all problems).

Link

Most likely its software problem or glitch with one of your updates


Phil

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966

The biggest problem with GPS is always the antenna, these days a GPS chip is cheap and small, and they make better ones and cheaper ones so it really depends what they put into your device.

GPS use signal correlations from multiple frequencies below the noise floor by running them through a signal correlation processor that takes the non-random signal, and adding it up together… some of the noise will cancel out and Boom you have a good signal after combing them…. But that’s from ONE satellite (each one)…

The other issue is that you need at least 3 satellites to figure out where you are on a 3 axis space, but when the signals pass through the Ion I sphere at different angles the signally are “unequally” delayed, so that has to be compensated for….

Now. - think about a cheapo chip that serially does the signal processing of multiple bands for a Single Satilite, and having to do that 3 to 9 times for each satitlie at the same time… and then running the signal delay compensation at the same time…. Slow, chips are going to take a LOT longer to lock up, and when they lose lock, it will take longer to reobtain lock. couple this with the GPS signal being something like 15-20 seconds to transmit…. And things get nasty fast.

The one thing you can sometimes control is getting an external antenna to make sure the processor can work on a good signal.
Look at Garmin’s gear - most of them have external antenna capabilities because of this.


Last - if you are in a house with energy windows that metalic film on them will block the GPS signal, and people tend to like light and sit by windows… Worse yet they place teh GPS device right next to the window and block the signal…. Your better off having the reciever by a wall. Vs. window.

IC B2

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Right now the gps in my computer is right on. That isn't always the case. Sometimes it will show me 3 or 4 miles from here.
I have a Samsung phone with Onx and a Garmin Montana with an Onx chip. Using them side by side, the Montana is considerably more accurate, often within 3'. I've had the phone be off by 20' or more. For 99% of my uses, the phone is accurate enough and a lot more convenient. I've set up orienteering courses where I have to use the Montana as it's more reliable.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,390
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,390
In my experience a dedicated GPS receiver is much more accurate than an IPad or phone. It also has better battery life for remote use. I also recommend a receiver that is compatible with US and GLONASS satallites for better coverage especially under tree canopy and in canyons. US satellite orbits are more oriented towards the equator due to where where the military has been operating. GLONASS orbits are more oriented towards northern latitudes because of Russia's operations in the Baltic Sea.

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
Consumer GPS signals are varied randomly on purpose so that idiot can’t fly a missle someplace using it.. so the elevation is typically more off.

If you want you “track” on a GPS and zoom in you can see it moving over time as you stand still.

If the GPS has an accelerator sensor I can tell if it’s not moving and it will start to average out where you are at, and a lot of them do that anyway… so it gets more accurate over time.

Differential GPS listens to a GPS at a known location that sends the current GPS’s signals “skewed” direction and distance from the know distance so other mobile GPS’s can auto correct their location.


Last edited by Spotshooter; 07/02/21.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230

I specifically got the iPad and set it up with GaiaGPS for my truck, a Tundra 4x4, for BLM and Forest Service roads.

So, obviously, it needs to work mounted on or near the dashboard. I got it after watching a bunch of YouTube videos on them, so I know the iPad with a GPS chip is good enough - or should be good enough - to deal with the inside of a vehicle.

In the next few days I'm going to subscribe to onX and Avenza and see what, if any difference, there will be in performance.

It'll be a pain if I'm in the backcountry of Dixie National Forest, UT, to stop the truck every now and then and step outside for a few minutes to search for a sat lock. Particularly, if it's raining.

Last edited by tjm10025; 07/02/21.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,966

Um…. tjm - did you notice that they put the GPS and statilite antennas on the top back of the cab ?

IC B3

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,069
Quote
If you want you “track” on a GPS and zoom in you can see it moving over time as you stand still.
I can sit down for a break on the trail and watch my Samsung GPS do a lively dance as I sit there. It's plenty accurate enough for this open area but it would be a pain trying to find something in close cover.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
Originally Posted by Spotshooter

Um…. tjm - did you notice that they put the GPS and statilite antennas on the top back of the cab ?


I sure did. And if there was an easy way to connect my iPad to it, I would.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
I can sit down for a break on the trail and watch my Samsung GPS do a lively dance as I sit there. It's plenty accurate enough for this open area but it would be a pain trying to find something in close cover.


When I've actually got sat lock in the truck, I can get a report on the strength of my GPS signal and often it's 200 ft., plus or minus. That's plenty good enough for what I'm using it for. That'll get me to the fence gate on the BLM road I want, and it'll get me back to the same one.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,316
C
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,316
I'm not a techno freak, but I am decent at troubleshooting. If it worked before and it doesn't work now, then something changed. I'd concentrate on the software /firmware changes, since those are known. Seems unlikely that location has any real effect unless you were in a canyon.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230

A few days ago I took it to a location I'd been to before and still had trouble maintaining lock. The only thing I use this iPad for is (so far) GaiaGPS, so it doesn't get used every day. Hasn't been dropped. I haven't altered settings to deal with other software.

When I first went this location, two versions of GaiaGPS ago, my sat lock was solid, so I'm thinking it's the software.

The company has been worthless in responding to questions. I get an email from them from time to time with links to FAQtoids that they've sent me before, which I can find on the users' forum, and which are irrelevant to the questions I've asked, but I get no conversation. They do advise closing out and rebooting the iPad frequently. What does that tell me?

(When it's working it works really well.)

One of these days, there will be a new version of the software and then maybe the sat lock issue will be resolved. I'm out of town right now, but when I get home I'm going to load Avenza and maybe another app. Hence forth I will head into the wilderness with options.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
One of these might be an option. A buddy was using one of the ELF antennas on his iPad on a deer hunt a few years back and it seemed to work pretty well.

External GPS antennas


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230
T
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,230

Thanks. I'm going to look into those, for vehicle use. You don't happen to recall if your buddy's iPad has built-in GPS do you? If he did, I assume there was no conflict between the two.

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,206
Check your PMs


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 17
M
New Member
Offline
New Member
M
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 17
I think of the iPad/tablet/phone with Gaia, oruxmaps, locus maps, or Caltopo as the map component and kinda. backup gps. The main GPS is an external GPS antenna. Many times, the Tablet GPS is good enough to know where I am when combined with a decent too map on the device, but for tracking of data, I use external GPS due to accuracy.


"Going to the mountains is going home" - John Muir

"It is very expensive to give bad medical care to poor people in a rich country" -Paul Farmer

"Pain: The gift nobody wants" -Paul Brand
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 762
E
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
E
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 762
I gave up on the GPS after the second one a few years ago. I use onX on my cell phone. You have to preload some maps (where cell service is not readily available ) but other than that it's great for me. I am an absolute idiot with tech stuff, so if I can manage t anyone can.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
494 members (10gaugeman, 1lessdog, 160user, 17CalFan, 007FJ, 1lesfox, 43 invisible), 2,516 guests, and 1,096 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,733
Posts18,400,955
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.082s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8996 MB (Peak: 1.0381 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 12:27:04 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS